BA Cabin Crew...bring on the laughing stock!
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BA Cabin Crew...bring on the laughing stock!
Results are in from the BA Cabin Crew ballot on what is going to be their 1st major change in Terms and Conditions under Willie Walsh: the introduction of strict Abscence Management controls.
Even on such an important issue, the poor dears could only manage 1070 "No" votes out of a massive 14 000 Cabin Crew community.
Surely this proves to WW once and for all how industrially spineless they are, and it's got to be a matter of weeks before there's a full-on assault on their ridiculous "rewards" package.
Bring it on...and to those Cabin Crew in BA, be afraid, be very afraid, you have just turned yourselves into the laughing stock of the industry!
Even on such an important issue, the poor dears could only manage 1070 "No" votes out of a massive 14 000 Cabin Crew community.
Surely this proves to WW once and for all how industrially spineless they are, and it's got to be a matter of weeks before there's a full-on assault on their ridiculous "rewards" package.
Bring it on...and to those Cabin Crew in BA, be afraid, be very afraid, you have just turned yourselves into the laughing stock of the industry!
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I presume you don't work for BA then. With their large net paypackets and easy working conditions I'd say they're the envy of most cabin crew, not a laughing stock. How many No votes did the pilots manage for AMP?
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What an idiot, what exactly is this ridiculous rewards package, and why should any BA cabin crew be afraid, they do a good job and get paid the going rate for it, whats wrong with that. Last time I looked BA Cabin Crew were starting on K9 basic, how ridiculous is that.
We should all be standing together, Pilots and Cabin Crew to get our T&Cs improved not knocking each others remuneration packages. Why do people continually come on these forums and knock what people earn, are they jeolous, did they not get past the interview stage, what is it.
In reality Pilots and Cabin Crew salarys/pensions have continued to fall way behind other similar professional occupations over the years while working harder and longer, wake up guys we are not well paid in comparison. Even the laziest f*****s on the planet MPs are ready to vote themselves a 22% increase.
If all WW was brought in for was to take on the staff and reduce T&Cs then he is in for a long battle, we will see how spineless people are then, it might have worked at EI, but it wont work at BA. Watch this space
We should all be standing together, Pilots and Cabin Crew to get our T&Cs improved not knocking each others remuneration packages. Why do people continually come on these forums and knock what people earn, are they jeolous, did they not get past the interview stage, what is it.
In reality Pilots and Cabin Crew salarys/pensions have continued to fall way behind other similar professional occupations over the years while working harder and longer, wake up guys we are not well paid in comparison. Even the laziest f*****s on the planet MPs are ready to vote themselves a 22% increase.
If all WW was brought in for was to take on the staff and reduce T&Cs then he is in for a long battle, we will see how spineless people are then, it might have worked at EI, but it wont work at BA. Watch this space
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Angus
They may be paying a starting salary of 9k, but I disagree with your assertion that they are paid the "going rate".
The overall cost of cabin crew within BA is far too high, when you compare them to other airlines.
Have a look at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airline_data/2003Annual/Table_1_14_Airline_Personnel_Cost_UK_and_Overseas_2003.pdf
......or search on the CAA's website for "personnel cost" and you will find the table.
The CAA table shows that in 2003 BA paid its cabin crew members, on average £27,800.
In the same year Virgin Atlantic paid their cabin crew, on average £16,800.
Thats a whopping £11,000 each higher than a UK based competitor, or for around 14000 cabin crew, £154 million more than the "going rate".
They may be paying a starting salary of 9k, but I disagree with your assertion that they are paid the "going rate".
The overall cost of cabin crew within BA is far too high, when you compare them to other airlines.
Have a look at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airline_data/2003Annual/Table_1_14_Airline_Personnel_Cost_UK_and_Overseas_2003.pdf
......or search on the CAA's website for "personnel cost" and you will find the table.
The CAA table shows that in 2003 BA paid its cabin crew members, on average £27,800.
In the same year Virgin Atlantic paid their cabin crew, on average £16,800.
Thats a whopping £11,000 each higher than a UK based competitor, or for around 14000 cabin crew, £154 million more than the "going rate".
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Again we're missing the point. BA are paid the proper going rate the job deserves, VA are not paid enough.
Instead of carping about how much BA are paid we should be campaigning to get VAs money up there aswell.
Instead of carping about how much BA are paid we should be campaigning to get VAs money up there aswell.
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Angus
The going rate by definition = Industry norm surely?
That said, the pay at BA ensures that CC stay longer and as a result we get to retain some really top people; unfortunately it also gets to mean that we retain a minority of absolute dross who don't deserve penny.
The going rate by definition = Industry norm surely?
That said, the pay at BA ensures that CC stay longer and as a result we get to retain some really top people; unfortunately it also gets to mean that we retain a minority of absolute dross who don't deserve penny.
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Again we're missing the point. BA are paid the proper going rate the job deserves, VA are not paid enough.
Economics 101:
http://www.bized.ac.uk/educators/16-...labmarket1.ppt
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don'tdoit - Go and get a life 
60% of BA crew are on the new contract (£10-15000) and nearly 50% of the 'old lot' are part time, so the huge amounts of money you seem to think they earn are rubbish.
Shorthaul crew do 50-60 duty hours a week and those that do have expensive cars etc are normally massively in debt/married well.
The majority are hardworking people with lives just like anybody else.
Ive been there 15 years and have a 1 bed house in a cr*p area and a secondhand high mileage car - so please , stop talking s***e and ask yourself if you'll ever find happiness ,as with the attitude you possess i doubt anyone would want to come within 50 feet of you.
Actually,make that miles
peeinyourpocket , VS staff are VASTLY underpaid - particularly the in-charge crew members, and seeing as there is a current exodus of staff from VS to BA - they have seen the light.
you are also not taking into account the fact that BA has many staff who have been there over 20 years while VS has none.
RB is too busy buying rockets/mobile phones and plastering his name on everything possible to care about his VS staff , and they are long overdue a decent salary.
If it makes you feel any better, loads of BA staff are retiring in the next 12 months.
60% of BA crew are on the new contract (£10-15000) and nearly 50% of the 'old lot' are part time, so the huge amounts of money you seem to think they earn are rubbish.
Shorthaul crew do 50-60 duty hours a week and those that do have expensive cars etc are normally massively in debt/married well.
The majority are hardworking people with lives just like anybody else.
Ive been there 15 years and have a 1 bed house in a cr*p area and a secondhand high mileage car - so please , stop talking s***e and ask yourself if you'll ever find happiness ,as with the attitude you possess i doubt anyone would want to come within 50 feet of you.
Actually,make that miles
peeinyourpocket , VS staff are VASTLY underpaid - particularly the in-charge crew members, and seeing as there is a current exodus of staff from VS to BA - they have seen the light.
you are also not taking into account the fact that BA has many staff who have been there over 20 years while VS has none.
RB is too busy buying rockets/mobile phones and plastering his name on everything possible to care about his VS staff , and they are long overdue a decent salary.
If it makes you feel any better, loads of BA staff are retiring in the next 12 months.
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Where did you dig out the £10k to £15K figure? Most new contract are on basic of around £9 to £10.5K but we all know that nobody on EF takes home less than £1500 pcm unless they're having a really bad month, which works out at an annual equivalent salary of around £22K to £25K, which is rather good money I think.
Also the 50-60 hour duty week is only if you're worked everyday and don't get non-opped (given a free day off for non-BA speakers). The 50-60 hour weeks are only there because your union insist on it to protect your allowances. You could easily accomplish your weeks flying in less than 40 hours but BASSA insist you have your lengthy turnarounds to ensure you scoop up those dinner allowances.
Also the 50-60 hour duty week is only if you're worked everyday and don't get non-opped (given a free day off for non-BA speakers). The 50-60 hour weeks are only there because your union insist on it to protect your allowances. You could easily accomplish your weeks flying in less than 40 hours but BASSA insist you have your lengthy turnarounds to ensure you scoop up those dinner allowances.
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CarrnageMatey is speaking the truth.
This thread however is turning into the regular monthly slanging match on who earns what, who deserves what..... etc..... Yawn!!
dontdoit, so why do you think the BA cabin crew are the laughing stock of the industry? I can't see your point. Please explain.
I would also be quite interested to hear your view on exactly which points within the new BA 'absence management controls' you speak of, that are to make the cabin crew 'afraid'. Clearly you have inside knowledge of these 'controls' so please enlighten the rest of us.
Oh and by the way
What is GOING to be? Isn't it already in place dontdoit??
This thread however is turning into the regular monthly slanging match on who earns what, who deserves what..... etc..... Yawn!!
dontdoit, so why do you think the BA cabin crew are the laughing stock of the industry? I can't see your point. Please explain.
I would also be quite interested to hear your view on exactly which points within the new BA 'absence management controls' you speak of, that are to make the cabin crew 'afraid'. Clearly you have inside knowledge of these 'controls' so please enlighten the rest of us.
Oh and by the way
on what is going to be their 1st major change in Terms and Conditions under Willie Walsh: the introduction of strict Abscence Management controls.
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Angus
These are the CAA sourced figures that you obviously refuse to believe:
Airline.............................Average expenditure per head
BMI..................................15600
Brittania...........................17100
British Airways.................27800
Easyjet............................15300
Monarch..........................14300
My Travel.........................17400
Thomas Cook...................13300
Virgin Atlantic...................16800
Others..............................11700
The figures clearly show that BA cabin crew are paid, on average, well over £10000 per head more per year than their competitors. I am sure that WW will be aware of such figures.
Anti-ice, I believe that Virgin Atlantic started in 1984. So, they could have staff who have been there for 21 years. Why would there be an "exodus" of Virgin staff, unless the total pay for a new-joiner at BA is exceeding that for a senior at Virgin? You say "I've been there 15 years and have a 1 bed house in a cr*p area and a secondhand high mileage car"........well change your lifestyle, or change your job, or accept that as your lot in life!!
Of course I am sure tha Willie Walsh knows that if he wasnt paying the BA cabin crew more than their competitors, he could use that £150 million to either pay for a new B747-400 every year or pay dividends to share holders.
These are the CAA sourced figures that you obviously refuse to believe:
Airline.............................Average expenditure per head
BMI..................................15600
Brittania...........................17100
British Airways.................27800
Easyjet............................15300
Monarch..........................14300
My Travel.........................17400
Thomas Cook...................13300
Virgin Atlantic...................16800
Others..............................11700
The figures clearly show that BA cabin crew are paid, on average, well over £10000 per head more per year than their competitors. I am sure that WW will be aware of such figures.
Anti-ice, I believe that Virgin Atlantic started in 1984. So, they could have staff who have been there for 21 years. Why would there be an "exodus" of Virgin staff, unless the total pay for a new-joiner at BA is exceeding that for a senior at Virgin? You say "I've been there 15 years and have a 1 bed house in a cr*p area and a secondhand high mileage car"........well change your lifestyle, or change your job, or accept that as your lot in life!!
Of course I am sure tha Willie Walsh knows that if he wasnt paying the BA cabin crew more than their competitors, he could use that £150 million to either pay for a new B747-400 every year or pay dividends to share holders.
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Peeinyourpocket, your CAA figures represent expenditure per head, not salary. So those figures would include company pension contributions etc.
Also, there is a huge variation in Cabin Crew pay. Some on the 'old old' contracts take home ridiculous amounts, many more than the Flight Crew. Then you have the 'old contractors' who again are taking home quite a bit more than the average stew.
Then you have those on the 'new contract' who also take home more than the industry average, but comparitive to other countries 'flag carriers'. For example Qantas Vs Virgin Blue, Iberia Vs Futura, Lufthansa Vs Condor, KLM Vs Martinair etc etc.
So these variations in pay HUGELY dilute the 'average' of BA cabin crew pay as you cannot compare the net take home pay of a Heathrow long-haul CSD on an 'old old' contract with that of a new starter at LGW EOG.
Also, there is a huge variation in Cabin Crew pay. Some on the 'old old' contracts take home ridiculous amounts, many more than the Flight Crew. Then you have the 'old contractors' who again are taking home quite a bit more than the average stew.
Then you have those on the 'new contract' who also take home more than the industry average, but comparitive to other countries 'flag carriers'. For example Qantas Vs Virgin Blue, Iberia Vs Futura, Lufthansa Vs Condor, KLM Vs Martinair etc etc.
So these variations in pay HUGELY dilute the 'average' of BA cabin crew pay as you cannot compare the net take home pay of a Heathrow long-haul CSD on an 'old old' contract with that of a new starter at LGW EOG.
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peeinyourpocket, I have read my threads again and again and nowhere do I mention that I "refuse to believe" anything, what planet are you on pal.
Your just confirmimg what I said, theres people like you and re heat get on these forums and complain about what people earn WHY!!!, can we have a trick cyclist on who can maybe give us an explanation to the condition of these poor people.
BA are paid about right end of story, the other airlines you mention are not paid enough.
Your just confirmimg what I said, theres people like you and re heat get on these forums and complain about what people earn WHY!!!, can we have a trick cyclist on who can maybe give us an explanation to the condition of these poor people.
BA are paid about right end of story, the other airlines you mention are not paid enough.
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BA CC are ridiculously over paid, forget about their basic, look at the package We have people in the job who been in so long that they can only see as far as the bottom right corner of their pay slips.
The first thing that they find out in their briefings is the amount of dosh that they are going to earn that trip!
Customer Service for the vast majority has been institutionally demoted.
I was so pleased when the AMP was introduced. CC go sick at the drop of a hat. It's about time they got sorted.
All they think about is how quickly they can get into the bunk to count their dosh.
The first thing that they find out in their briefings is the amount of dosh that they are going to earn that trip!
Customer Service for the vast majority has been institutionally demoted.
I was so pleased when the AMP was introduced. CC go sick at the drop of a hat. It's about time they got sorted.
All they think about is how quickly they can get into the bunk to count their dosh.
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Hey suggs, did you get a reject letter from BA?
The simple truth is that BA employ their cabin crew on the basis of collective contracts.
Counting the dosh?....wouldnt you if you were given the chance?
Poor customer service?....None of the other UK airlines stand out in any way ( no excuse, but its right through the UK service industry)
Overpaid?...Nope, just strong collective bargining...ask BALPA, the BA pilots aren't complaining.
This thread has really bought the jealousy and bitterness out in people who feel it neccesary to cut down the tall poppy. Its really such a shame. Im sure the moaners on here would be the first in line to complain about just about anything, why things arent fair?....why didnt my mother love me?....
Get used to it, life aint fair
The simple truth is that BA employ their cabin crew on the basis of collective contracts.
Counting the dosh?....wouldnt you if you were given the chance?
Poor customer service?....None of the other UK airlines stand out in any way ( no excuse, but its right through the UK service industry)
Overpaid?...Nope, just strong collective bargining...ask BALPA, the BA pilots aren't complaining.
This thread has really bought the jealousy and bitterness out in people who feel it neccesary to cut down the tall poppy. Its really such a shame. Im sure the moaners on here would be the first in line to complain about just about anything, why things arent fair?....why didnt my mother love me?....
Get used to it, life aint fair
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so what if BA cabin crew get paid more?? so what if the pilots get paid more?? If you don't like it either apply for a job or stop moaning!!! You wan;t to earn as much money as you can?? When was the last time you said to your boss, ohh, no take £300 back you are paying me far too much