AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES discussions (All Bases)
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Le 3rd Homme,
I totally disagree with what you have said about AO. I have also traveled around Japan for many years, I have many friends in Japan also and they have all said they have heard about Australian Airlines via media advertisement in Japan. In the last 2 years I have seen many posters in trains, in stations, and on buses. I have seen tv ads promoting AO & Australia and I have also heard radio ads promoting Australian Airlines. Before traveling with AO to Japan I have traveled JAL and QF and I would have to say AO wins hands down for service and comfort. This thing with seat recline is rubbish, AO seats are identical
to QF, and JAL seats are as hard as rocks, I was sitting on a pillow towards the end of the flight.
I totally disagree with what you have said about AO. I have also traveled around Japan for many years, I have many friends in Japan also and they have all said they have heard about Australian Airlines via media advertisement in Japan. In the last 2 years I have seen many posters in trains, in stations, and on buses. I have seen tv ads promoting AO & Australia and I have also heard radio ads promoting Australian Airlines. Before traveling with AO to Japan I have traveled JAL and QF and I would have to say AO wins hands down for service and comfort. This thing with seat recline is rubbish, AO seats are identical
to QF, and JAL seats are as hard as rocks, I was sitting on a pillow towards the end of the flight.
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Got an e-mail yesterday advising that I have progressed to an interview. Christmas has come early,I'm giving this everything I have.I have flown with the majority of airlines in Aust/Pacific region and the seats on AO seem as roomy and comfortable as most. I'm 6'2 and can't fly any longer than an hour with Virginblue without getting bruised knees.
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In Fukuoka I caught 1 train and the carriage I stepped into had AO stickers and posters on it. Right avove the door as you exit, kind of hard not to miss!
You probably woudn't see much in Tokyo as we don't fly there, though that is changing now.
I'd be curious to know who you fly with within Australia and internationally as I thought our pitch was the same as QF and most other carriers. I'm sure you're not going to find great comfort on a seat that is even 1 or 2 inches more than us any way.
As per this link it states QF Y calss is the same as us.....it lists the seat pitch in Y class for 111 airlines.
http://www.uk-air.net/seatpitch.htm
RaverFlaver
You probably woudn't see much in Tokyo as we don't fly there, though that is changing now.
I am 186cms and travelled to Osaka from Cairns last year(using AO).Never again.The seat pitch was perfect for my wife.She is 165cms.
As per this link it states QF Y calss is the same as us.....it lists the seat pitch in Y class for 111 airlines.
http://www.uk-air.net/seatpitch.htm
RaverFlaver
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Australian Airlines
Seating Policy
'Demonizes' Men
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com International Editor
12-1-5
Two airlines "down under" are under fire after acknowledging their policy of not allowing an unaccompanied child passenger to sit next to a man.
The policy emerged when a New Zealand man said he was asked by airline staff to move because an unaccompanied minor had been assigned the seat next to him.
Mark Worsley was told to swap seats with a woman sitting nearby, who then moved into the seat next to the boy, about eight years old, for the 80-minute flight.
"I was pretty shocked -- I think most people would be," the 37-year-old shipping manager and father of two said Tuesday.
"I complied straight away and moved seats. But as I sat on the plane during the flight I got more and more angry about it."
Part of the problem, Worsley said, was that the plane was full. When the flight attendant arranged the seat swap, "certainly there was enough disruption that people in the immediate vicinity would have heard what was going on. I felt totally embarrassed."
He had later confronted the airline staff, who confirmed the company policy.
Worsley said someone asked him after the event why he had not simply refused to move. "But these days you can't really do that. With [fears of] terrorism, if you cause any fuss on the plane you're out walking."
"Most males in the world, I'm sure, are perfectly law-abiding, good parents, good fathers, brothers, whatever," he said. "They're basically accusing half the population of the world of being a potential pedophile."
Seating Policy
'Demonizes' Men
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com International Editor
12-1-5
Two airlines "down under" are under fire after acknowledging their policy of not allowing an unaccompanied child passenger to sit next to a man.
The policy emerged when a New Zealand man said he was asked by airline staff to move because an unaccompanied minor had been assigned the seat next to him.
Mark Worsley was told to swap seats with a woman sitting nearby, who then moved into the seat next to the boy, about eight years old, for the 80-minute flight.
"I was pretty shocked -- I think most people would be," the 37-year-old shipping manager and father of two said Tuesday.
"I complied straight away and moved seats. But as I sat on the plane during the flight I got more and more angry about it."
Part of the problem, Worsley said, was that the plane was full. When the flight attendant arranged the seat swap, "certainly there was enough disruption that people in the immediate vicinity would have heard what was going on. I felt totally embarrassed."
He had later confronted the airline staff, who confirmed the company policy.
Worsley said someone asked him after the event why he had not simply refused to move. "But these days you can't really do that. With [fears of] terrorism, if you cause any fuss on the plane you're out walking."
"Most males in the world, I'm sure, are perfectly law-abiding, good parents, good fathers, brothers, whatever," he said. "They're basically accusing half the population of the world of being a potential pedophile."
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Enthusiasm vs Reality
1.I don't characterize myself as an expert but I am an informed observer.My brother in law(Japanese travel agent) is
2.I wish AO every success.Some individuals who post here however seem to have been dazzled by spin.
3.The reality is AO is struggling for Brand Recognition and financially.
4.Airlines are transport ..pure and simple.The rest is gloss.This applies particularly to LCCs of which AO is one.
5.AO management needs to find some direction instead of the ad hoc approach it is currently using.
6.High end travellers(where the yield is) will always be reluctant to use an LCC.
7.AOs cultural awareness is no greater than QF mainline.On any QF mainline flight there are at 5 Japanese speakers.A number of whom are native speakers
Good luck guys,I hope your management eventually gets it right
BTW.."stickers" on Japanese trains ...I don't think so.
Fukuoka is where AO is pulling out.Obviously the "stickers" didn't work
2.I wish AO every success.Some individuals who post here however seem to have been dazzled by spin.
3.The reality is AO is struggling for Brand Recognition and financially.
4.Airlines are transport ..pure and simple.The rest is gloss.This applies particularly to LCCs of which AO is one.
5.AO management needs to find some direction instead of the ad hoc approach it is currently using.
6.High end travellers(where the yield is) will always be reluctant to use an LCC.
7.AOs cultural awareness is no greater than QF mainline.On any QF mainline flight there are at 5 Japanese speakers.A number of whom are native speakers
Good luck guys,I hope your management eventually gets it right
BTW.."stickers" on Japanese trains ...I don't think so.
Fukuoka is where AO is pulling out.Obviously the "stickers" didn't work
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Operated by Perth domestic crew.
The only language speaker on board was an off duty longhauler who ended up making the PA's even though they were on holidays.
SYD Longhaul now operating the PER-NRT sectors for the moment as multiple classes of MAM casual language speakers being trained NOW.
Longhaul language speakers will soon be back to using their language skills on SYD-CNS and SYD-PER-SYD sectors.
QANTAS when it chooses to offer a proper international product provides very well for it's foriegn guests.
The problem is that "proper international product" conflicts with senior executive performance bonuses
The only language speaker on board was an off duty longhauler who ended up making the PA's even though they were on holidays.
SYD Longhaul now operating the PER-NRT sectors for the moment as multiple classes of MAM casual language speakers being trained NOW.
Longhaul language speakers will soon be back to using their language skills on SYD-CNS and SYD-PER-SYD sectors.
QANTAS when it chooses to offer a proper international product provides very well for it's foriegn guests.
The problem is that "proper international product" conflicts with senior executive performance bonuses
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Maybe those Jap speakers were positioning to Perth to then go on to Japan from there? Had that thought ever crossed your mind?
Getting back to AO Le 3rd Homme you raise some very interesting and valid points. However you forget that AO is a strategic subsidary of the Qantas group. Brand recognition will slowly occur, but as long as the Japanese wholesalers sell seats on AO as part of packages AO will continue to do well in the Japanese market.
If you are referring to the $11 million loss posted last year if you researched you would find that this would be attributed mainly to Denpasar flying. If AO were a stand alone company why would it take on such loss making routes? The Qantas Group has to service the Bali holiday market and the unit with the lowest cost base will do it. If the group is going to service low yield, loss making routes it should try to make the smallest loss possible. I wouldn't be surprised if this flying eventually goes to Jetstar which is even cheaper than AO.
Why would AO want to attract 'high end' users? Our target market are Japanese tourists that will only fly us once, or a couple of times at most, and the outbound Australian tourist. I totally agree with you; high end travellers will be reluctant to us LCC's and AO.
There are alot of things that AO need to do. The ad hoc approach to everything it does is one!
Like Raver Flaver I have been to Fukuoka and other ports AO service plenty of times and the only marketing I ever have seen has been a poster in a travel agent and AO info in package tour brochures. But I feel you need to receive recognition and awareness from the people that sell the seats in order to get bums on seats!
When I lived in Japan I preferred to come home with CX as they were cheaper, had better IFE, newer aircraft and I perceived their customer service to be superior etc., but I was not a Japanese customer that has only 4 days break and only cares about getting to OZ quickly for a few days of relaxation, sightseeing and shopping. I had very different needs and requirements...
Getting back to AO Le 3rd Homme you raise some very interesting and valid points. However you forget that AO is a strategic subsidary of the Qantas group. Brand recognition will slowly occur, but as long as the Japanese wholesalers sell seats on AO as part of packages AO will continue to do well in the Japanese market.
If you are referring to the $11 million loss posted last year if you researched you would find that this would be attributed mainly to Denpasar flying. If AO were a stand alone company why would it take on such loss making routes? The Qantas Group has to service the Bali holiday market and the unit with the lowest cost base will do it. If the group is going to service low yield, loss making routes it should try to make the smallest loss possible. I wouldn't be surprised if this flying eventually goes to Jetstar which is even cheaper than AO.
Why would AO want to attract 'high end' users? Our target market are Japanese tourists that will only fly us once, or a couple of times at most, and the outbound Australian tourist. I totally agree with you; high end travellers will be reluctant to us LCC's and AO.
There are alot of things that AO need to do. The ad hoc approach to everything it does is one!
Like Raver Flaver I have been to Fukuoka and other ports AO service plenty of times and the only marketing I ever have seen has been a poster in a travel agent and AO info in package tour brochures. But I feel you need to receive recognition and awareness from the people that sell the seats in order to get bums on seats!
When I lived in Japan I preferred to come home with CX as they were cheaper, had better IFE, newer aircraft and I perceived their customer service to be superior etc., but I was not a Japanese customer that has only 4 days break and only cares about getting to OZ quickly for a few days of relaxation, sightseeing and shopping. I had very different needs and requirements...
Last edited by YONLY; 4th Dec 2005 at 01:17.
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A topic that keeps coming up is the fact that AO lost $11million in the last year but no one seems to be addressing why. It is no big deal that AO lost that amount. AO was set up to fly to routes that QF cant be profitable on. If QF had maintained the routes that AO fly they would have lost $18million so therefore although at a loss we actually saved QF $7million. That is the purpose of AO. Qantas wants to maintain some unprofitable routes and they know they will lose more money if they continue to fly in their own right. AO was born to lower the loss to QF not to make huge profits.
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We recently had a big announcement - NRT double daily and premium economy on all a/c by mid 2006. Or are you referring to something else.....that we don't know about?
Cheers,
RaverFlaver
Cheers,
RaverFlaver