Britannia crew stranded in Mexico!
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Britannia crew stranded in Mexico!
Just heard that some Britannia crew are stranded in Mexico awaiting the hurricane. They have been evacuated to a school. Question is, why have the company not made any adequate provisions for their safety?
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i don't think that the company has much choice in this situation as they will be following the evacuarion procedures of that particular country. Huricane evacuations are strictly controlled in theses areas, and when someone says evacuate, then they go to the nearest evacuation center - which in this case is a school
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Outrageous - How dare Thomsonfly crew be exposed to the same natural disasters as other, mere Mexicans. Special arrangements should have been made to ensure 5* accommodation was pre-booked. It is absolutely clear that Thomsonfly place no regard on the lives of their crew, and in this case may well have made a positive effort to kill them all.
It is particularly distressing to note that every other airline in the world has removed their crew from the path of the storm using many of the numerous airline seats that are always available on flights in the path of a hurricane.
Arrangements have now been made to divert the storm (henceforth to be known as Hurricane "Maurice") away from Florida
It is particularly distressing to note that every other airline in the world has removed their crew from the path of the storm using many of the numerous airline seats that are always available on flights in the path of a hurricane.
Arrangements have now been made to divert the storm (henceforth to be known as Hurricane "Maurice") away from Florida
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If this is the Man based crew who left yesterday they took an empty 767 out to evacuate as many of our passengers as possible prior to the hurricane striking. If they had been evacuated as well that would have meant passengers being left behind.
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Sadly, this is the business we're in. Sh1t happens and we have to live with it - it's a prerequisite of our role.
I have been through an earthquake in Jamaica, friends of mine have spent seven days in Orlando staring down Hurricane Charlie of last year. Other crew I know were in Islamabad when the disasterous quake hit last week.
If airlines evacuated crews each time a "natural disaster" hit, not only would airlines be forever shipping crew around the world, they'd also be leaving lots of passengers stranded due to disrupted operations (i.e. plane lands from London and there's nobody there to take it back).
This way, when the worst is over, a plane can be sent right out and these guys and girls will be there to take the flight straight back with holidaymakers onboard who also survived.
I have been through an earthquake in Jamaica, friends of mine have spent seven days in Orlando staring down Hurricane Charlie of last year. Other crew I know were in Islamabad when the disasterous quake hit last week.
If airlines evacuated crews each time a "natural disaster" hit, not only would airlines be forever shipping crew around the world, they'd also be leaving lots of passengers stranded due to disrupted operations (i.e. plane lands from London and there's nobody there to take it back).
This way, when the worst is over, a plane can be sent right out and these guys and girls will be there to take the flight straight back with holidaymakers onboard who also survived.
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Well said Eddy.
Is it not the case that we cabin crew always complain about the ignorance of pax when they dont listen / understand when we ask them to follow safety procedures that are there to save their lives should the unthinkable happen.
So its ok for us to be all important life savers when we want to be but not take into account that somebody else might be doing the same thing on a massive scale and actually be trying to help a lot of people stuck in the aftermath of a hurricane.
In a situation like this there is no place for a prima-dona.
6
Is it not the case that we cabin crew always complain about the ignorance of pax when they dont listen / understand when we ask them to follow safety procedures that are there to save their lives should the unthinkable happen.
So its ok for us to be all important life savers when we want to be but not take into account that somebody else might be doing the same thing on a massive scale and actually be trying to help a lot of people stuck in the aftermath of a hurricane.
In a situation like this there is no place for a prima-dona.
6
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Miss World has hit the nail on the head.....one of those Britannia crew is a friend and she said that Britannia were flying passengers into Mexico even though they had been warned. I can understand if the storm had been a total surprise and was out of the blue but in this case everyone had at least half a week notice and yet Britannia were still sending passengers and crew into the danger zone. Who's the monkey who was responsible for that one?!! Is it ethical for a comapny to send clients and staff into such a situation in the full knowledge that danger is around the corner?
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Thank you Kelas for that: It's amazing how stupid airlines can be. There they all are working out complicated operational plans to manage a natural disaster when all they really had to do was... speak to you!!!
There are many reasons why crew, and customers (and the locals of course) are where they are - I don't propose to cover those reasons here because I'm not sure that you are willing or able to cope with them.
Before passing any further criticism of these matters, please could you help us to understand what qualifications and understanding you have of operational decision making for airlines. On an earlier post here you appear to claim that you are presently employed serving Pizza? Does this role provide you with some useful insight into operational requirements?
There are many reasons why crew, and customers (and the locals of course) are where they are - I don't propose to cover those reasons here because I'm not sure that you are willing or able to cope with them.
Before passing any further criticism of these matters, please could you help us to understand what qualifications and understanding you have of operational decision making for airlines. On an earlier post here you appear to claim that you are presently employed serving Pizza? Does this role provide you with some useful insight into operational requirements?
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The reality is that you cant let a hurricane stop the world from ticking over. People still have family or business to get back to, there have been so many hurricanes this year and most have been relatively low catagory. Im not talking about hurricane katrina which caused devastating damage and loss but there was warning of it being a high catagory.
Airlines do know what they are doing and know when the risks are getting to high and they would never jeapordise peoples lives haphazardly because of the implications it could cause. but on the other hand they still have to get people from A to B. And if that means crew get stuck downroute a couple of extra days then so be it but to cancel the flight would cause to much disruption unneccesarily (though in some cases of course it is right to cancel the flight) Dont forget crew are put up in a nice safe hotel that was built to withstand the force of hurricanes, Unfortunately it is more likely the locals who cant afford such accomodation whose lives are really put at risk.
I dont mean to sound harsh and i am crew myself who was stuck in MCO eraly this year in a hurricane and a friend of mine was stuck for a week in BOM when the monsson struck recently and 80 people died. i do agree with many people on this post that we do not need to be prima-dona's. this is the world we are all living in.
Airlines do know what they are doing and know when the risks are getting to high and they would never jeapordise peoples lives haphazardly because of the implications it could cause. but on the other hand they still have to get people from A to B. And if that means crew get stuck downroute a couple of extra days then so be it but to cancel the flight would cause to much disruption unneccesarily (though in some cases of course it is right to cancel the flight) Dont forget crew are put up in a nice safe hotel that was built to withstand the force of hurricanes, Unfortunately it is more likely the locals who cant afford such accomodation whose lives are really put at risk.
I dont mean to sound harsh and i am crew myself who was stuck in MCO eraly this year in a hurricane and a friend of mine was stuck for a week in BOM when the monsson struck recently and 80 people died. i do agree with many people on this post that we do not need to be prima-dona's. this is the world we are all living in.
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i totally agree. its not the airlines fault. The world must continue to run no matter what. its only a hurricane, it passes. If it was that serious, they would not fly out there and more importantly risk loosing an aircraft too
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Dogs_ears_up
So according to you it's ok for an airline to send crew and passengers to mexico with the full knowdlege that a hurricane is on the way! You must be the monkey at Britannia I'm talking about!
So according to you it's ok for an airline to send crew and passengers to mexico with the full knowdlege that a hurricane is on the way! You must be the monkey at Britannia I'm talking about!
Last edited by Kelas; 24th Oct 2005 at 19:01.
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Well pardon me
I live on the East Coast in the U.S and the general mantra here is when a hurricane is going to hit...and it's usually forecast 4 or 5 days in advance, airlines cancel flights and get their planes out of the affected area. This often includes U.S. Air Force bases too !
The last thing they want is planes sitting on the tarmac generating no revenue, crews stranded who are totally non-productive, and planes getting damaged due to the 125 mph winds.
So yes, it does seem strange why a company would choose to send a plane and crew to an area where an hurricane is forecast unless they had passengers to pick up.
Newarksmells
The last thing they want is planes sitting on the tarmac generating no revenue, crews stranded who are totally non-productive, and planes getting damaged due to the 125 mph winds.
So yes, it does seem strange why a company would choose to send a plane and crew to an area where an hurricane is forecast unless they had passengers to pick up.
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yes, it does seem strange why a company would choose to send a plane and crew to an area where an hurricane is forecast
I was in a hotel for one of the hurricanes last year (cant remember which hurricane) anyway the hotel was turning elderly locals away because it was full.... full of tourists!!
I hardly think delaying a few flights is stopping the world from ticking over and at least should keep your brain ticking over with such a qualified job that we wouldnt possibly understand!!
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Nobody sane pretends this is an ideal situation: The question is as to whether it is totally avoidable? The answer is of course, not.
The issue that I have with Kelas is that he/she has nominated a specific airline (my employer) to the exclusion of all others, made very serious accusations against them in a public forum, and done so with a level of understanding of the industry, and the operational side of things that could charitably be described as minimal, and less charitably as "I've got a friend who is Cabin Crew and she says...". With all due respect, I feel bound to place greater credence on the decisions made by our ops department than those made by a worker in a Pizza restaurant. This does not reflect a lack of respect for those who work in such places, but it does show a contempt for those who make serious allegations in public, from the safety of anonymity and with virtually zero experience or understanding of the operational issues involved.
For the record - I too have previously experienced a hurricane, this time on a company slip. I also know some of the crew who have been trapped in CUN and have spoken to some of those (including our Ops department) who have been in touch with the crew on this occasion. Factors that have had a negative influence on this particular event include the extended duration of the hurricane in the CUN area and the lack of UK sub-charter availability, since other airlines are similarly affected by the hurricane and the European IT summer season is not yet quite finished.
As you have mentioned earlier in this thread Miss World, customers will also be affected in Florida (and of course Cuba). In your view, should all passengers and crew have been evacuated in advance in these locations as well? If so, should this policy have been applied at Thomsonfly alone, or should customers of Thomas Cook, First Choice, British Airways, Virgin et al have been similarly treated?
And finally, one other question. Each crew there brought an aircraft in: That aircraft then evacuated 300+ people (and crew) from the path of the hurricane. If the crew had not brought the aircraft in, would that demonstrate a lesser degree of concern by the airline than doing so?
I appreciate that for both you and Kelas there is a very real chance that these questions are unanswerable: There will be a collision between reality, bolstered with hard facts and your (according to your PPRuNe posting history) 3-4 years flying experience and Kelas' experience of adding extra cheese with no anchovy!
If you want to make serious public accusations against an airline, try and support your arguments with facts (preferably), experience or at least knowledge. If you can provide none of these then you should expect to deal with the consequences.
The issue that I have with Kelas is that he/she has nominated a specific airline (my employer) to the exclusion of all others, made very serious accusations against them in a public forum, and done so with a level of understanding of the industry, and the operational side of things that could charitably be described as minimal, and less charitably as "I've got a friend who is Cabin Crew and she says...". With all due respect, I feel bound to place greater credence on the decisions made by our ops department than those made by a worker in a Pizza restaurant. This does not reflect a lack of respect for those who work in such places, but it does show a contempt for those who make serious allegations in public, from the safety of anonymity and with virtually zero experience or understanding of the operational issues involved.
For the record - I too have previously experienced a hurricane, this time on a company slip. I also know some of the crew who have been trapped in CUN and have spoken to some of those (including our Ops department) who have been in touch with the crew on this occasion. Factors that have had a negative influence on this particular event include the extended duration of the hurricane in the CUN area and the lack of UK sub-charter availability, since other airlines are similarly affected by the hurricane and the European IT summer season is not yet quite finished.
As you have mentioned earlier in this thread Miss World, customers will also be affected in Florida (and of course Cuba). In your view, should all passengers and crew have been evacuated in advance in these locations as well? If so, should this policy have been applied at Thomsonfly alone, or should customers of Thomas Cook, First Choice, British Airways, Virgin et al have been similarly treated?
And finally, one other question. Each crew there brought an aircraft in: That aircraft then evacuated 300+ people (and crew) from the path of the hurricane. If the crew had not brought the aircraft in, would that demonstrate a lesser degree of concern by the airline than doing so?
I appreciate that for both you and Kelas there is a very real chance that these questions are unanswerable: There will be a collision between reality, bolstered with hard facts and your (according to your PPRuNe posting history) 3-4 years flying experience and Kelas' experience of adding extra cheese with no anchovy!
If you want to make serious public accusations against an airline, try and support your arguments with facts (preferably), experience or at least knowledge. If you can provide none of these then you should expect to deal with the consequences.
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I was in a hotel for one of the hurricanes last year (cant remember which hurricane) anyway the hotel was turning elderly locals away because it was full.... full of tourists!!
What's the world coming to?
Whatever next?
Where will it end?
Restaurants full of diners?
Bars full of drinkers?
Sports stadia full of fans?
And worst of all...hospitals full of sick people!
Dogs_ears_up
Hear, hear! Well put.
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Dogs_ears_up
I now see why you have got on your high horse about this, all because Kelas mentioned the airline you work for.. But how has he/she made serious accusations against them in a public forum?? Do you know what Pprune is for?? Maybe you should take it up with someone that all airline/company names are removed...
Im not going to answer your first question because I think you know that my opinion of this isnt aimed at Thomsonfly alone. I dont think ANY airline should be taking passengers into a country to use and take up provisions that could be used by locals... That is my point!
One other thing, just because I dont work within the operational side of the aviation industry and not to mention only having '3-4 years flying experience' does that mean I can't have an opinion on this matter...?
Miss W
I now see why you have got on your high horse about this, all because Kelas mentioned the airline you work for.. But how has he/she made serious accusations against them in a public forum?? Do you know what Pprune is for?? Maybe you should take it up with someone that all airline/company names are removed...
Im not going to answer your first question because I think you know that my opinion of this isnt aimed at Thomsonfly alone. I dont think ANY airline should be taking passengers into a country to use and take up provisions that could be used by locals... That is my point!
One other thing, just because I dont work within the operational side of the aviation industry and not to mention only having '3-4 years flying experience' does that mean I can't have an opinion on this matter...?
Miss W