QANTAS discussions (All Bases) - Merged
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As usual DEFCON4 you make some salient points.
So too does Ross Gittens in todays SMH and much along the same sentiment that you express........
http://smh.com.au/news/ross-gittins/...236060743.html
Greed IS NOT good whether it be corporate or otherwise.
It clearly makes us all "poorer" as none of us will live for ever.
Merry Christmas to all.
So too does Ross Gittens in todays SMH and much along the same sentiment that you express........
http://smh.com.au/news/ross-gittins/...236060743.html
Greed IS NOT good whether it be corporate or otherwise.
It clearly makes us all "poorer" as none of us will live for ever.
Merry Christmas to all.
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Leane7,
Yes they probably are hiring 80 new crew, it doesnt matter as they wont last long and then they have to hire another 80 to replace those, the viscious circle just goes around and around.
The burn out date is six months from hire date and the total expiry date is 1.5 years, some have been know to last as long as 2 years.(depends on the battery)
Yes they probably are hiring 80 new crew, it doesnt matter as they wont last long and then they have to hire another 80 to replace those, the viscious circle just goes around and around.
The burn out date is six months from hire date and the total expiry date is 1.5 years, some have been know to last as long as 2 years.(depends on the battery)
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The Last Post......For The Moment!
It's good to see a bit of humour now being posted after some torrid ones regarding the JFKS. Perhaps a good time to suggest we take a break from them as with only a week to go most will have made up their mind. I'm certainly going to take a break as I'm off to lie on a beach for a few weeks so wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy 2006 it certainly promises to be an interesting one!! Thanks also to Tightslot for putting up with us!! 
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on another note
14 December 2005
News - Qantas Fleet Decision to Benefit Australia
Below is the final media release following Qantas' fleet decision announcement today.
QANTAS FLEET DECISION TO BENEFIT AUSTRALIA
SYDNEY, 14 December 2005: Qantas said today that its selection of the Boeing 787 would provide substantial economic benefits for Australia.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the Boeing Company had already announced a significant commitment to the development of the B787 series of aircraft in Australia.
"The Qantas order will substantially increase that commitment," he said.
Mr Dixon said Qantas and Boeing had agreed to meet early in 2006 to look at further ways of enhancing Australian involvement in the B787.
"Qantas' order alone is expected to inject up to $250 million directly into the Australian economy.
"Boeing has also told us that the order could produce total flow-through economic benefits to Australia in the order of $2 billion.
"Boeing also expects other airlines to follow Qantas' lead in relation to orders for the B787. This will provide an additional contribution to Australian jobs and export dollars."
Mr Dixon said Qantas was pleased that its fleet plan decision would enable the creation of jobs and the production of important technologies to be carried out in Australia for the next decade and beyond.
"This is a great win-win for Qantas passengers – and for Australian jobs," the Hon. Andrew Peacock, AC, President of Boeing Australia, said.
"The 787 is clearly a game changer in the world airline business, and the even better news is that the 787 has the highest Australian content of any current airliner.
"One of our five Australian subsidiaries, Hawker de Havilland, is contracted to design and manufacture the 787 trailing edge control surfaces at its Melbourne plant.
"Based on total projected sales, the B787 work will provide substantial economic benefits to Australia, including projected exports of around $A4 billion through 2030," Peacock said. "When the 787 program reaches rate production by about 2013, about 250 people will work in high-skilled jobs at Fishermans Bend.
"The 787 contract is expected to proceed other high tech work, including components for the Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter, currently the world's largest military program."
News - Qantas Fleet Decision to Benefit Australia
Below is the final media release following Qantas' fleet decision announcement today.
QANTAS FLEET DECISION TO BENEFIT AUSTRALIA
SYDNEY, 14 December 2005: Qantas said today that its selection of the Boeing 787 would provide substantial economic benefits for Australia.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the Boeing Company had already announced a significant commitment to the development of the B787 series of aircraft in Australia.
"The Qantas order will substantially increase that commitment," he said.
Mr Dixon said Qantas and Boeing had agreed to meet early in 2006 to look at further ways of enhancing Australian involvement in the B787.
"Qantas' order alone is expected to inject up to $250 million directly into the Australian economy.
"Boeing has also told us that the order could produce total flow-through economic benefits to Australia in the order of $2 billion.
"Boeing also expects other airlines to follow Qantas' lead in relation to orders for the B787. This will provide an additional contribution to Australian jobs and export dollars."
Mr Dixon said Qantas was pleased that its fleet plan decision would enable the creation of jobs and the production of important technologies to be carried out in Australia for the next decade and beyond.
"This is a great win-win for Qantas passengers – and for Australian jobs," the Hon. Andrew Peacock, AC, President of Boeing Australia, said.
"The 787 is clearly a game changer in the world airline business, and the even better news is that the 787 has the highest Australian content of any current airliner.
"One of our five Australian subsidiaries, Hawker de Havilland, is contracted to design and manufacture the 787 trailing edge control surfaces at its Melbourne plant.
"Based on total projected sales, the B787 work will provide substantial economic benefits to Australia, including projected exports of around $A4 billion through 2030," Peacock said. "When the 787 program reaches rate production by about 2013, about 250 people will work in high-skilled jobs at Fishermans Bend.
"The 787 contract is expected to proceed other high tech work, including components for the Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter, currently the world's largest military program."
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Guardian1,
Schlonghaul and his missus are right we need some more fun here!!
Who is on the faaa roster tomorro?
I'm thinking of another newsletter or something and maybe in latin for eden neun und neunzig
Remember VOTE NEIN
Schlonghaul and his missus are right we need some more fun here!!
Who is on the faaa roster tomorro?
I'm thinking of another newsletter or something and maybe in latin for eden neun und neunzig
Remember VOTE NEIN
Last edited by lowerlobe; 14th Dec 2005 at 05:54.
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Mostie/Gittens
I don't always agree with what Ross Gittens write or says.
In this instance he has nailed it.
I was spending too much time away,working hard and seeing less of the people I was doing it for .....my Family.
I can control about 60-65% of my roster.
The rest ..I change using the rules:dropping trips unpaid,sick leave,special event leave,long service,annual leave and carers leave..the lot.
I feel better I see more of my family and I am less inclined to get upset about the company's disdain,beligerence,indifference and general incompetence.
Somebody in here suggested a recording device when having a "one on one"with a visitor.
Not a bad idea.
Another way to keep these swine off my back.
We have had to cut back a little but my wife was in full agreeance to spend more time at home and earn less money.
Let me tell you,I am less grumpy and spend a lot more quality ,happy time with my little bunch.
At the end of the day Dixon works for me.
He collects a portion of funds from each passenger ticket and every fortnight deposits it in my account.
Surprisingly he does a reasonable job.
The Visitors,the Faaa, Dixon ,Grant ,Kylie mean zero to me.
I care about my family ,the people I work with and the very shortchanged passengers.
Work less and have more time.
The rest, to me, is irrelevant nonsense
I will always survive.
In this instance he has nailed it.
I was spending too much time away,working hard and seeing less of the people I was doing it for .....my Family.
I can control about 60-65% of my roster.
The rest ..I change using the rules:dropping trips unpaid,sick leave,special event leave,long service,annual leave and carers leave..the lot.
I feel better I see more of my family and I am less inclined to get upset about the company's disdain,beligerence,indifference and general incompetence.
Somebody in here suggested a recording device when having a "one on one"with a visitor.
Not a bad idea.
Another way to keep these swine off my back.
We have had to cut back a little but my wife was in full agreeance to spend more time at home and earn less money.
Let me tell you,I am less grumpy and spend a lot more quality ,happy time with my little bunch.
At the end of the day Dixon works for me.
He collects a portion of funds from each passenger ticket and every fortnight deposits it in my account.
Surprisingly he does a reasonable job.
The Visitors,the Faaa, Dixon ,Grant ,Kylie mean zero to me.
I care about my family ,the people I work with and the very shortchanged passengers.
Work less and have more time.
The rest, to me, is irrelevant nonsense
I will always survive.
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not so good after all the hype
45 boeing 787 firm , 20 options , and 50 maybe down the track. less then 10 billion. thats only half the order qf was quoting before. 4 domestic airbuses 330-200 will start of jetstar international followed by 787. then qf gets some. must say rather disappointing. we gonna keep flying the old s***t aircrafts till 2010 and beyond. good one GD.
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With regard to the fleet announcement, it appears that only 65 a/c are on firm order (guaranteed). The other 50 are just options (like what we have had on every aircraft, not often used). Given that Jetstar expects 60 a/c within 5 years (including 23 A320's), my maths says that should mean they get about 33 new a/c, the 4 A330's and mainline is left with say 32 new 787's (the middle of next decade before they all arrive).
32 is just about the number of 767's that will be well and truly buried by 2011+. Can't see the Classics being around that long, and some of the original 400's would also be struggling (half of them will be 20 years old or more by then probably). 4 330's are going Jetstar's way, what will happen to the rest? Some of these retirements will be offset by the A380. Potentially I think there is a serious risk to us that the size of mainline actually shrinks (in aircraft numbers) to accomodate the rapid growth of Jetstar.
My concern being is that I think this is further evidence that mainline flying will actually decrease over the next 5 to 10 years with lots of flying (JOBS) and growth capacity taken/transferred to Jetstar. Personally, the prospect of this concerns me more than the JFK dispensation. Plus the fact we will be dealing with increasingly older and unreliable a/c.
My other question to the FAAA: if mainline shrinks and a surpluss is created, under the new IR laws will they just shaft us accross to Jetstar as required? How will they do this - seniority? I personally would like to know given that those of us lower down the pile may be contemplating mortgages at the moment, but will be unsure whether we will still be earning the bucks we do now in 5 years time, particularly as we may be the first to go.
32 is just about the number of 767's that will be well and truly buried by 2011+. Can't see the Classics being around that long, and some of the original 400's would also be struggling (half of them will be 20 years old or more by then probably). 4 330's are going Jetstar's way, what will happen to the rest? Some of these retirements will be offset by the A380. Potentially I think there is a serious risk to us that the size of mainline actually shrinks (in aircraft numbers) to accomodate the rapid growth of Jetstar.
My concern being is that I think this is further evidence that mainline flying will actually decrease over the next 5 to 10 years with lots of flying (JOBS) and growth capacity taken/transferred to Jetstar. Personally, the prospect of this concerns me more than the JFK dispensation. Plus the fact we will be dealing with increasingly older and unreliable a/c.
My other question to the FAAA: if mainline shrinks and a surpluss is created, under the new IR laws will they just shaft us accross to Jetstar as required? How will they do this - seniority? I personally would like to know given that those of us lower down the pile may be contemplating mortgages at the moment, but will be unsure whether we will still be earning the bucks we do now in 5 years time, particularly as we may be the first to go.
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a review of faaa KPIs
The 2 Bruvvers & Margaret Thatcher who make up the faaa exec came into power on an aggressive confrontationalist platform.
With their 'strike at Xmas' jingoism & poor attempt at a 'media blitz' -they sent a clear message to QF management that they were actually NON FLEXIBLE & NON NEGOTIABLE
Dixon wrote a blank cheque to ensure this never happens again.
So a year down the track - lets just check those faaa KPIs.
The Bruvvers said they:
1) Wanted an "acceptable " cap - mate the last time I looked - a CAP had only one head in it - 870 is not a cap - its a subsiduary company -an alternate non -unionised airline!
Then the faaa give Australian Airlines their blessing as they sign off an EBA that allows unlimited offshore bases and the employment of unlimited foreign nationals - this completely undermines any CAP concept (as the BNE BAse forlornly wave good-bye to their cherished CNS -NRTS) So on that KPI the bruvvers score -ZERO!
The Bruvvers also said they wanted "an acceptable redundancy clause" -that is ,they wanted to ensure that if there were compulsory sackings - the offshore bases would go first -or at least "last on ,first off" Now our fearless leaders quaintly tell us that 'this has never been tested ' and the company CAN PICK HEADS!!' So that KPI is also a big ZERO!
Based on this record, with regard to the JFK dispensation the thinking f/a would have to give a resounding "NO VOTE!"
Then Gentlemen -"LET US TO THE BARRICADES!"
ps stop trying to scare the membership by holding up the closure of the PER L/H base as an eg of "this could happen to you"
most crew I've spoken to from the Perth base BLAME THE FAAA AS MUCH FOR THE BASE CLOSURE AS MANAGEMENT . (for example -why didn't the faaa insist on giving the Narita flying back to PER L/H crew rather than allowing it to stay with SYD L/H?)
The faaa has a huge crediblity problem and are now lashing out blindly at any dissent.
With their 'strike at Xmas' jingoism & poor attempt at a 'media blitz' -they sent a clear message to QF management that they were actually NON FLEXIBLE & NON NEGOTIABLE
Dixon wrote a blank cheque to ensure this never happens again.
So a year down the track - lets just check those faaa KPIs.
The Bruvvers said they:
1) Wanted an "acceptable " cap - mate the last time I looked - a CAP had only one head in it - 870 is not a cap - its a subsiduary company -an alternate non -unionised airline!
Then the faaa give Australian Airlines their blessing as they sign off an EBA that allows unlimited offshore bases and the employment of unlimited foreign nationals - this completely undermines any CAP concept (as the BNE BAse forlornly wave good-bye to their cherished CNS -NRTS) So on that KPI the bruvvers score -ZERO!
The Bruvvers also said they wanted "an acceptable redundancy clause" -that is ,they wanted to ensure that if there were compulsory sackings - the offshore bases would go first -or at least "last on ,first off" Now our fearless leaders quaintly tell us that 'this has never been tested ' and the company CAN PICK HEADS!!' So that KPI is also a big ZERO!
Based on this record, with regard to the JFK dispensation the thinking f/a would have to give a resounding "NO VOTE!"
Then Gentlemen -"LET US TO THE BARRICADES!"
ps stop trying to scare the membership by holding up the closure of the PER L/H base as an eg of "this could happen to you"
most crew I've spoken to from the Perth base BLAME THE FAAA AS MUCH FOR THE BASE CLOSURE AS MANAGEMENT . (for example -why didn't the faaa insist on giving the Narita flying back to PER L/H crew rather than allowing it to stay with SYD L/H?)
The faaa has a huge crediblity problem and are now lashing out blindly at any dissent.
Last edited by lurker@R5; 14th Dec 2005 at 09:36.
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Defcon4,
I usually do agree with Ross Gittens so there you go.
Great post BTW.
A merry Christmas to you and yours.
-----
The decision on the 747 replacement has been deferred not cancelled.
The way I see it the longer the old birds are around the longer we have jumpseats to sit on...........
I usually do agree with Ross Gittens so there you go.
Great post BTW.
A merry Christmas to you and yours.
-----
The decision on the 747 replacement has been deferred not cancelled.
The way I see it the longer the old birds are around the longer we have jumpseats to sit on...........
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numbers correct white pointer
that doesn't see much for qf mainline growth. some of the A380 are coming but at a very slow rate. most initial 787 will go to JS and domestic. its time to upskill on a/c maintenance as we be fixing more s**t onbord.
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outstanding post defcon4.
It's funny, my wife was just sitting here reading the latest "source" and couldnt believe the waste and bull**** that's involved in it. And....she doesnt fly.
It's funny, my wife was just sitting here reading the latest "source" and couldnt believe the waste and bull**** that's involved in it. And....she doesnt fly.
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leane
you will find out for yourself why.
If they bought it the "older" AKL crew all of you new recruits would have shot out the door.
Anyway when you get in make the most of it and try and enjoy it, believe it or not but there really are some great parts of the job left and there are also some good people in the AKL base.
Stay away from the bitterness off the Australians that were employed in December 2004 and January 2005, there are the sc@bs that were employed here in SYD to break us.
people like Midnight 63. ( you will know who they are the AKL crew will point them out to you the minute they get the chance)
you will find out for yourself why.
If they bought it the "older" AKL crew all of you new recruits would have shot out the door.
Anyway when you get in make the most of it and try and enjoy it, believe it or not but there really are some great parts of the job left and there are also some good people in the AKL base.
Stay away from the bitterness off the Australians that were employed in December 2004 and January 2005, there are the sc@bs that were employed here in SYD to break us.
people like Midnight 63. ( you will know who they are the AKL crew will point them out to you the minute they get the chance)
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Qantas announced today that they will be buying back their ex 707’s to bolster their fleet until the new Boeing 787 aircraft are ready with the motto of “yesterdays technology tomorrow”.
Included in the purchase is John Travolta’s ex Qantas 707, which is already painted in Qantas’s colours.The only hitch is that they will have to paint all the other aircraft in the old paint scheme as well but this is a small price to pay compared to the boards bonus’s for not buying new aircraft.
However, John has offered to train the rest of Qantas’s mainline pilots as none of them are capable of flying an aircraft without computers and Qantas is also scouring RSL clubs around the nation for ex flight engineers and navigators. Another cheaper option though is to buy hand held GPS units from Harvey Norman and mount them in the flight decks Qantas IT said.
The board also agreed to give John one of our old 747-300's as they are not that good any way and nothing works on them anymore.
Qantas CEO Darth Dixon and the Chairman Michael Jackson said that the purchase was in line with the company’s sustainable future and Australian employee minimizing program.
The RAAF still has approximately $1 billion dollars worth of spares for the 707’s which Qantas has purchased for a bargain of $10 billion .Qantas has also purchased the RAAF’s 707’s as well to be used a mid flight re fuellers saving the company from having to slip cabin crew in slip ports, as the new aircraft with in flight re-fuelling will be the hub busters that Boeing and Airbus could not supply and will fly non stop to anywhere.
The tech crew are happy as well because they have admitted that they would prefer to be on the flight deck than anywhere else as that way none of their ex wives lawyers can talk to them as well as thinking about all the overtime they are making .The company has also made a deal with King Gee to make safari suits and pelaco blendene shirts with crosby hush puppy’s for the tech crew so they feel at home again on the 707.A tech crew spokesperson Captain Kearnstein said that the tech crew were happy because they could save money from not going to fatties anymore and had sourced a soup kitchen in London with a bottle shop next door for cheap beer.
The flight attendants association of Australia spokesperson General Capitulation said that is was ok with the union as Ben Dover and the other officials never really liked Singapore and Bangkok anyway.We realise that the company is in a tough position with the cost of fuel and Darths financial commitments to a number of people so this is a welcome announcement and we are only too happy to bend over and help .No other cabin crew are as flexible as we are ,in fact “I’m willing to bend over backwards and give lip service anytime” Ben has told us.
The issue of cabin crew rest has been solved with the faaa idea of the company installing soft flooring around the doors and supplying the crew with pillows and normison.
The company is also saving a fortune on in- flight entertainment and maitenance because there isn’t any.
qantas shares rose 15 cents with the announcement
Included in the purchase is John Travolta’s ex Qantas 707, which is already painted in Qantas’s colours.The only hitch is that they will have to paint all the other aircraft in the old paint scheme as well but this is a small price to pay compared to the boards bonus’s for not buying new aircraft.
However, John has offered to train the rest of Qantas’s mainline pilots as none of them are capable of flying an aircraft without computers and Qantas is also scouring RSL clubs around the nation for ex flight engineers and navigators. Another cheaper option though is to buy hand held GPS units from Harvey Norman and mount them in the flight decks Qantas IT said.
The board also agreed to give John one of our old 747-300's as they are not that good any way and nothing works on them anymore.
Qantas CEO Darth Dixon and the Chairman Michael Jackson said that the purchase was in line with the company’s sustainable future and Australian employee minimizing program.
The RAAF still has approximately $1 billion dollars worth of spares for the 707’s which Qantas has purchased for a bargain of $10 billion .Qantas has also purchased the RAAF’s 707’s as well to be used a mid flight re fuellers saving the company from having to slip cabin crew in slip ports, as the new aircraft with in flight re-fuelling will be the hub busters that Boeing and Airbus could not supply and will fly non stop to anywhere.
The tech crew are happy as well because they have admitted that they would prefer to be on the flight deck than anywhere else as that way none of their ex wives lawyers can talk to them as well as thinking about all the overtime they are making .The company has also made a deal with King Gee to make safari suits and pelaco blendene shirts with crosby hush puppy’s for the tech crew so they feel at home again on the 707.A tech crew spokesperson Captain Kearnstein said that the tech crew were happy because they could save money from not going to fatties anymore and had sourced a soup kitchen in London with a bottle shop next door for cheap beer.
The flight attendants association of Australia spokesperson General Capitulation said that is was ok with the union as Ben Dover and the other officials never really liked Singapore and Bangkok anyway.We realise that the company is in a tough position with the cost of fuel and Darths financial commitments to a number of people so this is a welcome announcement and we are only too happy to bend over and help .No other cabin crew are as flexible as we are ,in fact “I’m willing to bend over backwards and give lip service anytime” Ben has told us.
The issue of cabin crew rest has been solved with the faaa idea of the company installing soft flooring around the doors and supplying the crew with pillows and normison.
The company is also saving a fortune on in- flight entertainment and maitenance because there isn’t any.
qantas shares rose 15 cents with the announcement
Last edited by lowerlobe; 15th Dec 2005 at 07:11.
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lowerlobe
I know you don't like me referring to you as "mate", but mate your last post did have me in stitches.
You would make a good satirist. Perhaps, the FAAA might call on you for some satirical pieces against QF when it becomes necessary.
Have a good christmas...... you are passionate about issues at least and that is a good thing.
You would make a good satirist. Perhaps, the FAAA might call on you for some satirical pieces against QF when it becomes necessary.
Have a good christmas...... you are passionate about issues at least and that is a good thing.
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Seniority
Just noticed my seniority has gone up 9 slots(Qf CC Longhaul)
This can only mean
1.Nine(9) people have had enough and retired.
OR
2.The visitors have given 9 people an unpleasant and unwanted Christmas Present.
I hope it is the former and not the latter.
This can only mean
1.Nine(9) people have had enough and retired.
OR
2.The visitors have given 9 people an unpleasant and unwanted Christmas Present.
I hope it is the former and not the latter.
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Yep guardian, fair enough with you just as passionate regarding our conditions. We might see things a little differently but we are both trying to do the best. Whatever the outcome next week let's have a
Merry Christmas and hopefully a successful new year to all.
Merry Christmas and hopefully a successful new year to all.
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The Source
What is the go with MH? Do we really need a whole page just his photo. A few bucks could well and truely been saved. Note to self e-mail CEO immediately with cost saving strategy.
What is the go with MH? Do we really need a whole page just his photo. A few bucks could well and truely been saved. Note to self e-mail CEO immediately with cost saving strategy.
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Galleyhag,
Argusmoon ought to be congratulated for finding a practical use for the "smiling assasin's" photo.
Had an effect like that of ipecac solution when I saw it.
----------
Interesting that the Commonwealth bank has received a record fine for forcing employees to transfer to a subsidiary company on lower pay and conditions.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Busine...676435417.html
No doubt the goons running Qantas will be taking accute interest in the findings given the plans they have for Jetscar international.
I'm under the impression from the last couple of paragraphs in the article that howard's "anti employee IR laws" will make this employer action perfectly legal........
Argusmoon ought to be congratulated for finding a practical use for the "smiling assasin's" photo.
Had an effect like that of ipecac solution when I saw it.
----------
Interesting that the Commonwealth bank has received a record fine for forcing employees to transfer to a subsidiary company on lower pay and conditions.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Busine...676435417.html
No doubt the goons running Qantas will be taking accute interest in the findings given the plans they have for Jetscar international.
I'm under the impression from the last couple of paragraphs in the article that howard's "anti employee IR laws" will make this employer action perfectly legal........