QANTAS discussions (All Bases) - Merged
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JFK...... WHITE POINTER AND OTHERS
White Pointer and any others who are unsure how to vote should contact the FAAA directly.
The FAAA has repeatedly said rather than listen to ill informed nonsense, crew need to contact the FAAA office and air their questions directly.
White you have pretty much figured it out anyway.
Voting NO will result in the displacement of Aussie crew from LAX and Kiwi crew now doing Africa and Mumbai will take LAX slots from us.
You also hit the nail on the head .... Lowerlobe is prob a CSS or CSM who sees personal advantage if the dispensation is removed..because that would probably mean CSM's and CSS's would slip in JFK.
The sad irony is that under the new industrial laws the Company would probably move to promote overseas based crew.
The bigger issue is that it signals to QF we don't want our International Work. Mijatov indicated in his last newsletter that there will be a surplus of 160 in Long Haul by BP 244.
Only morons would advocate knocking back the JFK dispensation in the current environment..... these same morons would then be screaming if QF moves to compulsory redundancies in L/H.
AGAIN ANYONE IN DOUBT AS TO HOW THEY SHOULD VOTE SHOULD CONTACT THE FAAA. THEY HAVE DETAILED INFORMATION, AND MOST OF IT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO US REPEATEDLY IN THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS. THE ARGUMENT FOR A YES VOTE IS WITH THE BALLOT PAPER.
IT IS PRETTY EASY TO UNDERSTAND AND COMPELLING!
White pointer ring the FAAA office tomorrow , speak to mijatov or smedley.... they will be happy to take your call.
Finally, there will be a very big YES vote , just speak to other crew who have voted.
The FAAA has repeatedly said rather than listen to ill informed nonsense, crew need to contact the FAAA office and air their questions directly.
White you have pretty much figured it out anyway.
Voting NO will result in the displacement of Aussie crew from LAX and Kiwi crew now doing Africa and Mumbai will take LAX slots from us.
You also hit the nail on the head .... Lowerlobe is prob a CSS or CSM who sees personal advantage if the dispensation is removed..because that would probably mean CSM's and CSS's would slip in JFK.
The sad irony is that under the new industrial laws the Company would probably move to promote overseas based crew.
The bigger issue is that it signals to QF we don't want our International Work. Mijatov indicated in his last newsletter that there will be a surplus of 160 in Long Haul by BP 244.
Only morons would advocate knocking back the JFK dispensation in the current environment..... these same morons would then be screaming if QF moves to compulsory redundancies in L/H.
AGAIN ANYONE IN DOUBT AS TO HOW THEY SHOULD VOTE SHOULD CONTACT THE FAAA. THEY HAVE DETAILED INFORMATION, AND MOST OF IT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO US REPEATEDLY IN THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS. THE ARGUMENT FOR A YES VOTE IS WITH THE BALLOT PAPER.
IT IS PRETTY EASY TO UNDERSTAND AND COMPELLING!
White pointer ring the FAAA office tomorrow , speak to mijatov or smedley.... they will be happy to take your call.
Finally, there will be a very big YES vote , just speak to other crew who have voted.
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White Powder,
If you want to read some abuse and childish name calling read some of pro gofers posts as well as JBM’s
As I said, I have never said that Voting NO will get us the slip back...
However, you like Ben Dover and the gang want to say yes to Blackmail
To say we will give you the dispensation when there is no guarantee we will keep our jobs
To say that you (the company) have got us on the run and do us over at will
To accept the replacement of 6 Australian crew on the shuttle with barely a whimper
I have at least provided numbers and ideas instead of just fear and doom prophecies as the faaa do .I and others have provided compelling reasons to consider a NO vote and all we have got in return is abuse and no real alternatives but surrender
How many times have the surrender monkeys here told us what is available only after someone has criticised them.
Quote “The faaa has made it clear that the fatigue report is available in the office for anyone to see”. Will someone here re-print the newsletter that told us this!!!!!
Here are a few questions though for Guardian
How many ballot forms have been sent out (are they numbered)???
What is to stop some of your disciples from scanning a few hundred or more copies and gerry mandering a yes vote (talk about vote stacking)????
Why was there not a case for a yes vote and a No vote enclosed with the ballot form. The faaa is supposed to inform us of the choices not dictate to us what to vote and not the one sided argument that the faaa gave us.
What about the clown that said he wanted me thrown out of the union? Is no one allowed to think independently of you???
How does the company prove they have not hired in excess of the cap on overseas crew???
Then Guardian tells us “anyone who is unsure how to vote ring the faaa office”
Well, that is going to give you an unbiased view of the world…
And as usual the fanatical anti unionist ultra right wing JBM is telling us to vote yes and go along with the union….DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE FAAA’s POSITION….
FOR COMMON SENSE VOTE NO
If you want to read some abuse and childish name calling read some of pro gofers posts as well as JBM’s
As I said, I have never said that Voting NO will get us the slip back...
However, you like Ben Dover and the gang want to say yes to Blackmail
To say we will give you the dispensation when there is no guarantee we will keep our jobs
To say that you (the company) have got us on the run and do us over at will
To accept the replacement of 6 Australian crew on the shuttle with barely a whimper
I have at least provided numbers and ideas instead of just fear and doom prophecies as the faaa do .I and others have provided compelling reasons to consider a NO vote and all we have got in return is abuse and no real alternatives but surrender
How many times have the surrender monkeys here told us what is available only after someone has criticised them.
Quote “The faaa has made it clear that the fatigue report is available in the office for anyone to see”. Will someone here re-print the newsletter that told us this!!!!!
Here are a few questions though for Guardian
How many ballot forms have been sent out (are they numbered)???
What is to stop some of your disciples from scanning a few hundred or more copies and gerry mandering a yes vote (talk about vote stacking)????
Why was there not a case for a yes vote and a No vote enclosed with the ballot form. The faaa is supposed to inform us of the choices not dictate to us what to vote and not the one sided argument that the faaa gave us.
What about the clown that said he wanted me thrown out of the union? Is no one allowed to think independently of you???
How does the company prove they have not hired in excess of the cap on overseas crew???
Then Guardian tells us “anyone who is unsure how to vote ring the faaa office”
Well, that is going to give you an unbiased view of the world…
And as usual the fanatical anti unionist ultra right wing JBM is telling us to vote yes and go along with the union….DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE FAAA’s POSITION….
FOR COMMON SENSE VOTE NO
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JAM IT !!!!!
Guardian 1.............." only morons would advocate knocking back the JFK dispensation"
Thats great coming form some one like you...........an Exec on the FAAA..........LEADERSHIP ?????
I'm voting NO, regardless of the outcome I'm resigning from the FAAA forthwith.
I thought the Visitors were the enemy. !!!!!
I 've had enough of their crap, bullying ( must all live in the "Shire" ) , spin and deceit.
VOTE NO...........FOR A BETTER FUTURE.
Thats great coming form some one like you...........an Exec on the FAAA..........LEADERSHIP ?????
I'm voting NO, regardless of the outcome I'm resigning from the FAAA forthwith.
I thought the Visitors were the enemy. !!!!!
I 've had enough of their crap, bullying ( must all live in the "Shire" ) , spin and deceit.
VOTE NO...........FOR A BETTER FUTURE.
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I thought someone here might have got the drift of my previous post and that is I don’t think that the company has enough AKL crew to do the shuttle .
Check my figures and they are conservative at that.
If the company does not have enough crew in AKL then it really is the dispensation they want and not for the JFK shuttle ..
This is for JBM…
Condemnant quod non intellegunt
cave fatuum
VOTE NO
Check my figures and they are conservative at that.
If the company does not have enough crew in AKL then it really is the dispensation they want and not for the JFK shuttle ..
This is for JBM…
Condemnant quod non intellegunt
cave fatuum
VOTE NO
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The good thing about resigning from the FAAA WWW is that with your positive attitude to the Job and Qantas in general you should be leading the charge to negotiate the 1st individual contract.
Having just returned from a trip where most of the crew indicated overwhelming support for the current FAAA leadership it was refreshing to long back on here and see that the 4 or 5 No voters are still peddling the same crap as i saw before i left.
You are all cowards, if you truly believe what you are saying then print it up , put your name on your no case and distribute it to crew.
Trouble is you are all total cowards and hide behind anonymity. I know that if i felt strongly enough to oppose the union position i would not be anonymous i would have the courage to stand up in front of everyone and put my position.
The reason i say this is because many crew who are aware of the feeble no case see it as a group of senior and past it crew who are missing their NYC slips.
These are the people who claim that they have made Qantas what it is today and have an entitlement.
These would be the same people who were at Ansett when the International Division was opened and the senior crew made the UNion insist the a whole domestic crew paxed on every International Flight when AN international operated a domestic sector.
It was so successful in protecting AN domestic jobs .....listen to the NO VOTE proponents you will see the same senior and selfish logic..the "entitlement" mentality.
You see there ancestors in museums, in the paleontology section ....Dinosaur bones.
You can see lowerlobe ancestores...huge bones ..massive mouth , tiny brain area and a big yellow streak still visible down the back..
Having just returned from a trip where most of the crew indicated overwhelming support for the current FAAA leadership it was refreshing to long back on here and see that the 4 or 5 No voters are still peddling the same crap as i saw before i left.
You are all cowards, if you truly believe what you are saying then print it up , put your name on your no case and distribute it to crew.
Trouble is you are all total cowards and hide behind anonymity. I know that if i felt strongly enough to oppose the union position i would not be anonymous i would have the courage to stand up in front of everyone and put my position.
The reason i say this is because many crew who are aware of the feeble no case see it as a group of senior and past it crew who are missing their NYC slips.
These are the people who claim that they have made Qantas what it is today and have an entitlement.
These would be the same people who were at Ansett when the International Division was opened and the senior crew made the UNion insist the a whole domestic crew paxed on every International Flight when AN international operated a domestic sector.
It was so successful in protecting AN domestic jobs .....listen to the NO VOTE proponents you will see the same senior and selfish logic..the "entitlement" mentality.
You see there ancestors in museums, in the paleontology section ....Dinosaur bones.
You can see lowerlobe ancestores...huge bones ..massive mouth , tiny brain area and a big yellow streak still visible down the back..
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Quote-
"& they are hiring another 85 AKL based long haul to be online by end of Feb."
--------
Yes, to replace the 80 odd who have resigned so far this year.................
Keeping FA's in AKL on the dreadfull conditions on offer is proving VERY difficult for the thugs running QANTAS.
A THIRD of the base has resigned this year.
Just another reason to VOTE NO.
"& they are hiring another 85 AKL based long haul to be online by end of Feb."
--------
Yes, to replace the 80 odd who have resigned so far this year.................
Keeping FA's in AKL on the dreadfull conditions on offer is proving VERY difficult for the thugs running QANTAS.
A THIRD of the base has resigned this year.
Just another reason to VOTE NO.
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Vote "NO" !
My NO vote went in early, before I read all this "healthy" debate.
It's not a vote about the JFK dispensation any more. The FAAA has fuddled around too long to vote on that issue, plus whatever the outcome, our LH flying will be slowly whittled away and turned into management bonus payments.
The NO vote is about lack of clarity and honesty by the FAAA and their hidden personal agendas; Blackmail and lack of honesty by the Company. Bullying tactics by both. No clearcut guarantees or direction from either. This is not about being flexible to the company, as LH jobs will be attacked by GD and his management experts regardless of how flexible we are. A No vote is to say, enough lies, intimidation, we know what you want, lets get the FAAA doing what it's supposed to and work FOR us with the company, not against us with the company.
It's not a vote about the JFK dispensation any more. The FAAA has fuddled around too long to vote on that issue, plus whatever the outcome, our LH flying will be slowly whittled away and turned into management bonus payments.
The NO vote is about lack of clarity and honesty by the FAAA and their hidden personal agendas; Blackmail and lack of honesty by the Company. Bullying tactics by both. No clearcut guarantees or direction from either. This is not about being flexible to the company, as LH jobs will be attacked by GD and his management experts regardless of how flexible we are. A No vote is to say, enough lies, intimidation, we know what you want, lets get the FAAA doing what it's supposed to and work FOR us with the company, not against us with the company.
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THE LOONEY NO VOTERS- A SUICIDE WISH
Excellent to hear you are resigning wed webbing woop.
I only hope a few other nuts join you and exit the FAAA. Your resignations are to be welcomed as we need the dangerous element to go. You are more trouble tha what you are worth.
Sad part is none of you dinosaurs are leaving the FAAA cause you are all talk and no action.
Would be fun watching the Company chase you like bunnies around a field..and with no FAAA protection.
I can also guarantee you, anyone leaving the FAAA and then who comes running back after they are called in by the Company on a disciplinary(and these are happenning now at 3-4 new cases each week) WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO RE-JOIN THE FAAA.
I urge you WWW to leave as soon as poosible and unlike people who went to LHR there will be no right of return for you or anyone like you .
I'm sure you will enjoy Howards new industrial legislation as you deal with a hostile Qantas management on your lonesome.
Good luck...you will need it!
I only hope a few other nuts join you and exit the FAAA. Your resignations are to be welcomed as we need the dangerous element to go. You are more trouble tha what you are worth.
Sad part is none of you dinosaurs are leaving the FAAA cause you are all talk and no action.
Would be fun watching the Company chase you like bunnies around a field..and with no FAAA protection.
I can also guarantee you, anyone leaving the FAAA and then who comes running back after they are called in by the Company on a disciplinary(and these are happenning now at 3-4 new cases each week) WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO RE-JOIN THE FAAA.
I urge you WWW to leave as soon as poosible and unlike people who went to LHR there will be no right of return for you or anyone like you .
I'm sure you will enjoy Howards new industrial legislation as you deal with a hostile Qantas management on your lonesome.
Good luck...you will need it!
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I told you so
FAAA DOM/REG has put out an offical letter to LHR crew stating they will represent LHR CSM's in an offical capacity to Qantas re new exchange of CSM's between divisions.
This will result in bringing newly appointed CSM's from both L/H & S/H returning in catagory. It's in writing on letterhead in our drop files.
The company will surely pick this up and renegosiate new contracts at repat. time.
Big changes are starting to take place already in our work place.
Yes the gig is over folks
Good for some folks who took the LHR base !!!!
This will result in bringing newly appointed CSM's from both L/H & S/H returning in catagory. It's in writing on letterhead in our drop files.
The company will surely pick this up and renegosiate new contracts at repat. time.
Big changes are starting to take place already in our work place.
Yes the gig is over folks
Good for some folks who took the LHR base !!!!
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Shorthaul Strikes Again
How the hell can the shorthaul FAAA represent Longhaul Crew?
A lot of the individuals returning to Sydney may use this to become CSMs/CSSs at shorthaul.
Now who is doing the Company's dirty work?
Treacherous shorthaul strikes again!!!!
A lot of the individuals returning to Sydney may use this to become CSMs/CSSs at shorthaul.
Now who is doing the Company's dirty work?
Treacherous shorthaul strikes again!!!!
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Peggy747,
So again it is just abuse again... pathetic just like your rostered mate pro gofer
Did you answer any questions …NO
Did you tell us how many crew are required to run the shuttle…NO
Did you tell us how many crew are allowed to be on the base? NO
Did you tell us how we can find out if the company employs more than the legal amount. NO
Then you have the temerity to criticize those who post here anonymously yet you do the same....spell hypocrite. Can you imagine the abuse the guys like you would make if you knew our names, the phone calls in the middle of the night…Are you sure your surname is not Stalin
Now we hear from your other rostered fiend Guard..that like you he believes that if you disagree with the faaa you should resign.
Quote “Excellent to hear you are resigning wed webbing woop.
I only hope a few other nuts join you and exit the FAAA. Your resignations are to be welcomed as we need the dangerous element to go. You are more trouble tha what you are worth.”
Quote “ You will not be allowed to re-join the faaa”…..
This is the arrogance that is infuriating so many members,what gives you the right to determine who is a member and who is not based on their viewpoint..Both of you would have had a position in the Gestapo if this was Germany in the 1940’s..
Guardian ..you also did not answer any of my questions..
What is to stop one of your mates scanning the ballot forms and putting in a few hundred or more yes votes.?????
How many ballot forms were printed pal???One for every member and a few more spares for the gerry mandering of a yes vote
Also if what peanut pusher has said is true with the csm transfer concept then you have just put us in the mud once more …WHO ARE YOU GUYS WORKING FOR ??????
No wonder Jet Black Monaro wants us to vote yes…Are we sure he does not work in the office and wants the yes vote to get up..
DEFY THE COMPANY’s MEDIA WING THE FAAA AND VOTE NO
So again it is just abuse again... pathetic just like your rostered mate pro gofer
Did you answer any questions …NO
Did you tell us how many crew are required to run the shuttle…NO
Did you tell us how many crew are allowed to be on the base? NO
Did you tell us how we can find out if the company employs more than the legal amount. NO
Then you have the temerity to criticize those who post here anonymously yet you do the same....spell hypocrite. Can you imagine the abuse the guys like you would make if you knew our names, the phone calls in the middle of the night…Are you sure your surname is not Stalin
Now we hear from your other rostered fiend Guard..that like you he believes that if you disagree with the faaa you should resign.
Quote “Excellent to hear you are resigning wed webbing woop.
I only hope a few other nuts join you and exit the FAAA. Your resignations are to be welcomed as we need the dangerous element to go. You are more trouble tha what you are worth.”
Quote “ You will not be allowed to re-join the faaa”…..
This is the arrogance that is infuriating so many members,what gives you the right to determine who is a member and who is not based on their viewpoint..Both of you would have had a position in the Gestapo if this was Germany in the 1940’s..
Guardian ..you also did not answer any of my questions..
What is to stop one of your mates scanning the ballot forms and putting in a few hundred or more yes votes.?????
How many ballot forms were printed pal???One for every member and a few more spares for the gerry mandering of a yes vote
Also if what peanut pusher has said is true with the csm transfer concept then you have just put us in the mud once more …WHO ARE YOU GUYS WORKING FOR ??????
No wonder Jet Black Monaro wants us to vote yes…Are we sure he does not work in the office and wants the yes vote to get up..
DEFY THE COMPANY’s MEDIA WING THE FAAA AND VOTE NO
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THE Question !!!
Can anyone please answer THE question?
What guarantees has the company given to the faaa that ALL positions on JFK flights will be filled by Australian based long haul cabin crew from BP243 and beyond if we vote yes?
No guarantee?...........Then voting NO is the only way to go!!!
What guarantees has the company given to the faaa that ALL positions on JFK flights will be filled by Australian based long haul cabin crew from BP243 and beyond if we vote yes?
No guarantee?...........Then voting NO is the only way to go!!!
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So if the Yes vote gets up Lowerlobe you will not accept it, launch a campaign and claim the vote was rigged by the FAAA? You have made it clear with your allegations that you have some info to suggest the FAAA is being corrupt - please provide further info here.
Otherwise, get a life, get off the computer, and get out amongst crew and talk to them for real. You may be surprised to find that the majority of crew support the dispensation.
Otherwise, get a life, get off the computer, and get out amongst crew and talk to them for real. You may be surprised to find that the majority of crew support the dispensation.
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Yes or No?
WP,
I can understand why you feel that most crew agree to the dispensation after all we have been bombarded with info from the faaa about voting Yes whilst no info about the NO side of things. Also the ballot papers have no identifying mark on them as you would have seen on the councillors voting paper and the ballots are sent to the faaa!! As someone has said it's like putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank. Like LL i'm suspicious about this and there is an old saying that the fish stinks from the head. I truly hope that GDs Cayman Island cheque book has not been put to good use in this vote.
WP Can you please answer the question from my previous post?
Whatever vote gets up I do hope that it will be good for us and the future of Australian jobs.
I can understand why you feel that most crew agree to the dispensation after all we have been bombarded with info from the faaa about voting Yes whilst no info about the NO side of things. Also the ballot papers have no identifying mark on them as you would have seen on the councillors voting paper and the ballots are sent to the faaa!! As someone has said it's like putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank. Like LL i'm suspicious about this and there is an old saying that the fish stinks from the head. I truly hope that GDs Cayman Island cheque book has not been put to good use in this vote.
WP Can you please answer the question from my previous post?
Whatever vote gets up I do hope that it will be good for us and the future of Australian jobs.
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Front Pit, if the opinion out there amongst the majority of crew was split, or leaning any way other than a resounding YES vote, then I would be suspicious of the voting process. However, I would likely say about 90% conservatively of crew I have spoken and flown with have either already, or are intending to, vote YES. If that is what the FAAA vote comes out, I will not be surprised. If there was a lot more likely to vote NO, then your arguments on the voting process would seem a lot more relevant.
Not saying I think that the process is completely transparent, just that claims the vote will be rigged seem to me and most irrelevant at this stage given the majority support the dispensation seems to have. And people who ignore anything that does not support their point of view, and resort to allegations of fraud in the voting process when nothing has been counted yet, does not wash with me. It just causes people to suspect the motives of their arguments.
Why don't we organise a group of people to go a scrutinise/witness the ballot as it is being counted? This could alleviate some concerns.
As to your question, well there are now less than half the operation made up of AKL based crew. This really pisses me off as I want the whole operation utilised with Australian crew. So the alternatives are voting NO and most likely having no Australian crew and all AKL crew, or voting YES and hoping the company keep up their end of the bargain utilising mostly Australian crew.
For me and a lot of others, a NO vote will see me personally doing less LA flying and more JNB BOM flying. A YES vote will see perhaps a bit more LA flying for me (I hope).
It is a big gamble either way, but at the end of the day a NO vote I believe has more to lose. I and most still believe the FAAA is trying to do the best by us all. However, if a YES vote which they have recommended results in the shuttle being operated by AKL based crew, then you will see the tide turn against them in a big way.
We are all entitled to our own opinions. YES vote sent.
Not saying I think that the process is completely transparent, just that claims the vote will be rigged seem to me and most irrelevant at this stage given the majority support the dispensation seems to have. And people who ignore anything that does not support their point of view, and resort to allegations of fraud in the voting process when nothing has been counted yet, does not wash with me. It just causes people to suspect the motives of their arguments.
Why don't we organise a group of people to go a scrutinise/witness the ballot as it is being counted? This could alleviate some concerns.
As to your question, well there are now less than half the operation made up of AKL based crew. This really pisses me off as I want the whole operation utilised with Australian crew. So the alternatives are voting NO and most likely having no Australian crew and all AKL crew, or voting YES and hoping the company keep up their end of the bargain utilising mostly Australian crew.
For me and a lot of others, a NO vote will see me personally doing less LA flying and more JNB BOM flying. A YES vote will see perhaps a bit more LA flying for me (I hope).
It is a big gamble either way, but at the end of the day a NO vote I believe has more to lose. I and most still believe the FAAA is trying to do the best by us all. However, if a YES vote which they have recommended results in the shuttle being operated by AKL based crew, then you will see the tide turn against them in a big way.
We are all entitled to our own opinions. YES vote sent.
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geez white pointer what kind of flights are you doing, everyone I have spoken to are going to vote NO!
Have you seen that email that is circulating at the moment! I have received it 4 times already!
Boy! some people are really p!ssed off at this one!
Have you seen that email that is circulating at the moment! I have received it 4 times already!
Boy! some people are really p!ssed off at this one!