Would you let her stay in that seat?

[SkySista]

Hi all, I got emailed this article about "A day in the life of a flight attendant". In it, the author mentions a pregnant woman in the exit row of a 319, and that the crew decide to let her stay in the seat.

Would this be done at your airline? And as the author mentions "no law" to cover this, would this differ between states in the US?

I thought that in Australia a woman who was pregnant (at least in late pregnancy) would not be considered suitable to occupy that seat. (In my airline it is the case, anyway...) Would it possibly depend on the aircraft in other airlines? (e.g. a Dash-8 compared to say an A330?)

Article from here

She notices a pregnant woman sitting in the exit row, and the four of us discuss whether the passenger is qualified to do so. Since no regulation explicitly excludes pregnant women from those seats and the passenger insists she is both willing and able to assist in an emergency, we decide to let her stay there.

So: would you let her stay there? Why or why not??

(Edited for stuff i forgot )

[jettesen]

I would. opening the door will do no more damage to her that hurtling down the escape slide at 60mph and comning to a sudden stop.

I know it is CAA regs that pregnant pax are not allowed to occupy these seats, but i can't see the harm in it

[GS-Alpha]

I don't think it is so much about doing damage to herself. If she is not able bodied, she could block the door for everyone else's rapid departure. She might seem quite fit, but can you guarantee she is not going to find herself with serious incapacitating stomach pains just at the wrong moment?

[apaddyinuk]

Jetteson,
Thats a very concerning comment you just made! What if she was unable to open the exit in her condition? Its nothing to do with the person being injured, its about their capabilites to assist evacuating an aircraft and I know very few pregnant women who would be able to do this without giving unneeded added stress to their unborn baby!

[its all over now]

On Icelandic registered aircraft, pregnant women can be ABPs and sit at emergency exits. I can see it being a bit tricky at overwings where the exit is much smaller, but at a main door I can't see a problem. Pregnant women aren't invalids. Geez, at nine months pregnant I was climbing ladders to wash windows and doing just about everything I had been doing when not pregnant.

[EAAFA]

SkySista, you say that in your airline a pregnant woman would not be allowed to sit in the exit row. If memory serves me correctly, you work for Eastern.

I too work for Eastern, and have never been told this (but it wouldn't surprise me if you were, because every line trainer has his/her own ideas, which leads to a lot of inconsistencies).

There is no mention of pregnant women and exit row seating in the manual (see FAM 2, 3.6.6 Exit Row Seat Restrictions).

The way I was trained was to move anyone who expressed their inability to assist or was unsure whether they could. If a pregnant passenger was confident in assisting me if the need arose, I would have no qualms about leaving her in an exit row seat.

[QF skywalker]

EAAFA,

Have to disagree with you sorry. Having worked on the QFLINK DH8's for quite some time I was never happy with pregant pax sitting in the exit row. Obviously if they were only a few months into the pregnancy it was ok, but for pax that were 'showing' I believe it is unsafe to have them in the exit as in an prepared emergency the pregnant pax should be relocated to the FWD part of the a/c where they can be seated beside an ABP and then be directed to use the front L1 door to exit ( if possible ). The very fact that we assign an ABP to pregant pax in a prepared emergency landing/ditching shows they are the type of person needing assistance.

One thing required of exit pax - especially on the DH8 is the ability to assist the f/a by directing pax outside the aircraft etc. I highly doubt a pregant pax would be staying behind, on or near the aircraft to assist - especially when they are carrying a child inside them ! They will be running away as fast as they can to protect their unborn child.

[Iguanahead]

Sky I think it depends on the type of a/c.

At JQ pregnant women over 6 months are not allowed to sit at the exit row according to CAO 20.16.3. It's not an option to go against a Civil Aviation Order so they wouldn't be placed there in the first place.

The free seating procedure we have means that it is o/wing's responsibility to ensure that the people sitting there are in accordance with the CAO and are also willing to do the job. I have had to ask pregnant women before how exactly many months they were before seating them, even though they were well within the quota they opted not to.

Having been pregnant myself before (OMG Iguana is a girl ) I know that these women are more than capable of performing the job. Later in the pregnancy it does become difficult to bend and lift, and depending how large you become you could just block an exit all together.

[SkySista]

Hi all, thanks for all of your responses. It's interesting to see the ideas here...

I myself was leaning towards the point of the pax possibly blocking the door/becoming incapacitated during an emergency...

I figured also what some of you have mentioned and it would depend on the degree of pregnancy and whether the pax was willing to assist if allowed to be there in the first place...

I guess each case needs to be assessed on individual merits (if as Iguana says law does not prohibit this) and a decision made accordingly.

EEAFA... perhaps... perhaps.... But I'm of the mind to never admit to who I work for on a public forum... you just never know.... I can see why you might think that though!! As for Iguana being a girl, yes I once did have that "Iguana is a girl?!" moment but that was quite awhile ago on a another unrelated topic... it's quite funny sometimes how a user name can make you think someone is a guy/girl, and later you find out they are exactly the opposite!!!

depending how large you become you could just block an exit all together

so I guess for me, if in my opinion someone (man or woman) was so large they risked blocking an exit I would not put them there either... but you'd have to ber VERY sure about it I guess to avoid getting sued for 'discrimination'.....

[Iguanahead]

Hi Sky, if a person was needing an extension seatbelt they would also not be permitted to sit at our exits. They can call discrimination all they like but it's common sense that they are not going to fit and will impede the evacuation.

A couple of weeks ago I had a very large man want to sit at my o/wing and I asked if he would be needing an extension belt. He obviously knew the drill with us and was adamant he didn't need one even after I told him he could have a whole row to himself. He then proceeded to heave his very large belly up and squeeze the belt on underneath it. I couldn't even see where the belt had gone. The whole time I'm thinking if we go down he's blocked one of my exits and I had visions of this man half stuck in the window with his butt hanging out.

Anyway I asked him if he felt he was able to operate the exit in an emergency and he said yes so I had no choice. Would love to have had a photo of a person stuck in an exit to show him what could happen.

[SkySista]

Iguana, that is the case with mine too. If a pax is large enough to need extension belt then common sense as you says tells us they are not fit to operate the exit...

Myself when flying, I inwardly cringe when an overly large perosn comes up the aisle, hoping they will not be blocking me in the aisle seat.... it's not because of them themselves, it's just the fact I don't fancy my chances if things hit the fan!!!

(Personally, I once climbed over a guy who was asleep because I couldn't get to the lav otherwise... with 3 hours to go holding it wasn't an option!!!) The guy didn't even wake up....!

Lol, I can just see that in "airline service posters that didn't quite make the cut" = Man with Butt out of window.....

[EAAFA]

QF skywalker,

Everyone's opinion is valuable, but when it comes to things like this, it's not just a matter of opinion.

What I was thinking about when I posted the message was the company's policy. As SkySista mentioned, the individual in question could claim to have been discriminated against and the FA would not get any support from management because our procedures do not actually prohibit the seating of pregnant women in exit rows.

Also, every individual is different. Some pregnant women are more capable than other people who appear to be fit. If they were confident in their ability to assist, I'd rather have them in the exit row than someone who is fit but too dumb to follow instructions. Let's not forget, on a small aircraft like a Dash 8, exit row pax are called on to assist in ANY emergency, it's not just a question of opening the exit if needed.

Judging by your answer, I assume you work for the other Qantaslink airline (ie not Eastern), because your procedures are different from the ones written in our manuals. If you have the time, you might want to look up the CASA website for the official word on exit row seating restrictions. Quite interesting...

[jettesen]

APADDYINUK in resopnse to your comment , "what if she was unable to open the door" That could happen to anyone not just her. If a fit and well person opens it the wrong way and twists their back, they are in exactly the same position. I don't think you should discrininate like this. The origional post does not mention the overwing door, it just mentions an exit row. as you know all main doors have power assist so there is no real strain. I really can't see the problem

[Sailorgal]

Hi all, found this a very interesting thread..

I can't claim to have any knowledge of cabin procedures, but I can definitely say that when being checked in, pregnant women ARE EXPLICITLY EXCLUDED from being assigned exit seats. I realise that it's different when it's free seating, but there are very stringent rules that we have to follow in relation to seating pax in exit seats - the types of pax that are excluded are any pregnant pax, pax with any injuries, needing special assistance like wheelchair, any medical conditions, even elderly pax & those who don't speak any english.

There aren't any considerations for 'discrimination' because the safety of the aircraft always comes first. There are actually controls in our check in system that will stop anyone from assigning a seat to pax with particular fact edits in their booking. This is most definitely the case with the airlines that I check in for, whether other airlines are not as strict with this requirement I don't know..

[GS-Alpha]

as you know all main doors have power assist

I don't know that, because it is not true.

"what if she was unable to open the door" That could happen to anyone

This is of course absolutely correct. However the rules are made by assessing the risks. It is more probable that an evacuation aided by an able bodied passenger will be successful.

I understand you feel there is discrimination, and that you do not see a problem. But I do hope you stick to your company's policies if you are ever faced with this situation. Whilst the pregnant woman may thank you for it, you will also be putting somebody else's life at a higher risk than is necessary/legal.

[apaddyinuk]

Jetteson, Its no Discrimination as you put it, Its caring for the well being of to be parent and the unborn baby! The added stress of having to open an exit door (regardless of the type but I would imagine an overwing would be more difficult bearing in mind I know how heavy they are) would be enough to stress the foetus. Also, In an emergency situation the pregnant ladys natural priority will be to the well being of her unborn child, therefore how could you expect this person to assist the crew evacuate the aircraft effectively? I know I wouldnt want to put a pregnant lady or indeed a parent in that situation!

At the end of the day you may think it seems ok and you wouldnt say boo to the passenger, but what does your manual say? Its not about what you think but about what your airlines proceedures think!

[flybywire]

I would (gently) move her. (No Pregnant pax allowed at overwing exits as per CAA anyway)
Unfortunately this happens more and more frequently with pax being able to allocate seats to themselves from home while checking-in online for their flight.
It is often difficult to spot the difference between a pregnant lady and one on the "bigger" side.......and things can be very tricky

The origional post does not mention the overwing door, it just mentions an exit row. as you know all main doors have power assist so there is no real strain. I really can't see the problem

Jettesen by "exit row on the A319" SKYSISTA meant the overwing exit row. That's what in general people refer to as the "exit row". Generally A319s have only one exit door each side in the centre of the cabin (EZY ones have two)

And no, there are many aircraft that have NO power assist installed in the main doors and they are more frequent than you think. In fact the 737, the most common aircraft in the world, has no power assist. (And those doors are bloody heavy during normal operations, imagine when the slide is engaged!)

Cheers!!!

FBW

[TopBunk]

Jettesen

I just typed a long reply which got lost as I submitted it....

Suffice to say, as a captain, I would be appalled at your cavalier approach to the regulations.

Can I suggest that you do not make up your own rules on the hoof and fit in or be prepared to undergo remedial training if discovered.

What makes you think you know better than the regulatory authority?

[flygirlnz]

As a CSA in New Zealand, I would not be able to check her into the exit seat.

[fernytickles]

To broaden the topic slightly, a 'larger' person may not be seated at the emergency exit because they may get stuck in the exit? Fair enough, but surely there is something wrong with the design of emergency exit if your larger than average Joe is going to be stuck inside the aircraft and fried in the event of an emergency. Okay, so they managed to board the aircraft through the main entrance, but that can be a very long ways away from the cattle class end and with only a few seconds, the distance to cover will be too great. I guess that means the chances of a fatter/larger person surviving or escaping in the event of an emergency are reduced?

Or else the emergency exit is designed to be large enough to accommodate all sizes?