Would you let her stay in that seat?
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fernytickles you're pretty much right about the design of the exits.
Of the smaller a/c I've flown on with over wing exits they are exactly that. Positioned over the wing, set into the wall of the aircraft and are accessed by pulling the window exit in and throwing it out. What's left is a hole in the wall which you need to access by standing on the seat and stepping out on to the wing. If you're too big to bend over and tie your shoe lace you're too big to bend in half and step out of an overwing exit, depending on the size of the aircraft.
The weight of the exit varies between 15 and 20 kilos and can't be made larger otherwise it would be impossible for the average person to lift and throw out. The airlines would then need to put a larger door type exit and that would cost money and take up seat space so that's not going to happen.
When I talk large I don't mean a bit on the weighty side, I mean very fat or obese people. If you need an extension belt you will probably either not fit through the exit or you will take a whole lot of time getting out and causing everybody behind you to evacuate at a slower pace.
As to whether their chances of survival are reduced I guess that depends on the type of emergency and evacuation on the day and where they are sitting on the aircraft.
And more importantly whether they took notice of the safety demo before take off.
Of the smaller a/c I've flown on with over wing exits they are exactly that. Positioned over the wing, set into the wall of the aircraft and are accessed by pulling the window exit in and throwing it out. What's left is a hole in the wall which you need to access by standing on the seat and stepping out on to the wing. If you're too big to bend over and tie your shoe lace you're too big to bend in half and step out of an overwing exit, depending on the size of the aircraft.
The weight of the exit varies between 15 and 20 kilos and can't be made larger otherwise it would be impossible for the average person to lift and throw out. The airlines would then need to put a larger door type exit and that would cost money and take up seat space so that's not going to happen.
When I talk large I don't mean a bit on the weighty side, I mean very fat or obese people. If you need an extension belt you will probably either not fit through the exit or you will take a whole lot of time getting out and causing everybody behind you to evacuate at a slower pace.
As to whether their chances of survival are reduced I guess that depends on the type of emergency and evacuation on the day and where they are sitting on the aircraft.
And more importantly whether they took notice of the safety demo before take off.
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from both ckin and load control / dispatch (as we do everything here, 
) i would not allow pregnant, eldery, larger (trying to be politcaaly correct) any form of wchr pax or children into the exit. and it drives me mad when people do!!! more work for the rest of us, and i know a few cc that would scream and shout if we just let them board
) i would not allow pregnant, eldery, larger (trying to be politcaaly correct) any form of wchr pax or children into the exit. and it drives me mad when people do!!! more work for the rest of us, and i know a few cc that would scream and shout if we just let them board
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Excellent point In The North!
I had a thought along similar lines: what if the pregnant passenger was an off duty flight attendant? Who better to assist?
To all the contributors from Australia who claim that it is against regulations to seat a pregnant woman in an exit row, CHECK THE CASA WEBSITE! It may be against your airline's policy, but it is not against the law.
I had a thought along similar lines: what if the pregnant passenger was an off duty flight attendant? Who better to assist?
To all the contributors from Australia who claim that it is against regulations to seat a pregnant woman in an exit row, CHECK THE CASA WEBSITE! It may be against your airline's policy, but it is not against the law.
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Actually....very stupid point In The North
As we all know, as soon as a crew member discovers that they are pregnant they have to stop flying immediately!!! So that would never happen....unless of course the crewmember decided not to tell anyone...
Have you ever seen a pregnant hosty???
As we all know, as soon as a crew member discovers that they are pregnant they have to stop flying immediately!!! So that would never happen....unless of course the crewmember decided not to tell anyone...
Have you ever seen a pregnant hosty???
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Here's a question I'm curious about. How would a pregnant flight attendant handle informing a pregnant passenger that they were not permitted to sit at the exit row?
In addition to this, flying means you're exposed to more radiations (especially if you fly long-haul) and they haven't found out if these radiations can be harmful to the unborn baby. So to avoid having malformed kids on their conscience Airlines prefer giving pregnant ladies some other jobs (fleet office....staff shop....have you seen how many there are there at the moment!! all Christmas 2004 babies!!!)
Some american airlines, though, allow cabin crews to fly anyway. A few years ago I saw a pregnant AA hostie with my very own eyes (she was I'd say about 5-6 months pregnant) At that time I just couldn't believe it!!! But after seeing a male AA crew who was using walking sticks outside JH the other morning, I can believe anything!!!!!!!
FBW
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Flybywire....You almost sound astonished that I could be correct you cheeky little minx !!! HAHAHA!!! Perhaps I too suffer from "know it all" syndrome!
As for the AA crewmember with his zimmerframe, I really do worry sometimes when checking into the Arora at some of the crew I see from the other side of the pond....I wonder if some of them are so decrepid because they have to carry all their luggage into the cabin with them!!!
As for the morning sickness and eating crew food, I have a friend who when on maternity leave had cravings for the Weapons of Mass Destruction which eurofleet used to serve!!!
As for JH....Say hello to it again for me, I have unfortunately left it for the last time (except perhaps to drop in the odd begging letter) for the Compast Center and the Glamour Jet!
As for the AA crewmember with his zimmerframe, I really do worry sometimes when checking into the Arora at some of the crew I see from the other side of the pond....I wonder if some of them are so decrepid because they have to carry all their luggage into the cabin with them!!!
As for the morning sickness and eating crew food, I have a friend who when on maternity leave had cravings for the Weapons of Mass Destruction which eurofleet used to serve!!!
As for JH....Say hello to it again for me, I have unfortunately left it for the last time (except perhaps to drop in the odd begging letter) for the Compast Center and the Glamour Jet!
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apaddyinuk/flybywire
Well in Australia that is not the case and as EAAFA will tell you we fly with girls every day that are very pregnant, I mean to the point where they are really showing.
Being a guy I dont know the exact date they must stop flying but I recently flew with a girl who is now on leave that was huge. As a fellow crew member I had my doubts she would have been effective in an emergency or her first response would be to her unborn child and not the passengers and just exit the aircraft if an evacuation was ordered, however due to discrimination you cannot voice these concerns because the law states they can continue to fly until they are x months pregnant. If I was a passenger I would actually be quite shocked to see a flight attendant that visable pregnant perched up there in her crew seat.
As for seating a pregnant women in an exit row unless she was about to give birth or needed an extension seat belt or I felt she just wouldnt cope with the stress I would leave her in that seat, what right do I have to tell a women to move when clearly our cabin crew are permitted to fly when they cant even walk down the cabin of a DASH 8 without having to turn side ways.
Many years ago women would never dream of flying in the late stages of pregnancy but times have changed and some women are now giving birth at 35,000ft assisted by the trusty cabin crew/midwife/nurse/doctor but never fear that call bell will go off in the middle of the delivery and Mr Joe Blow sitting in 2A will be looking for his coke.
Well in Australia that is not the case and as EAAFA will tell you we fly with girls every day that are very pregnant, I mean to the point where they are really showing.
Being a guy I dont know the exact date they must stop flying but I recently flew with a girl who is now on leave that was huge. As a fellow crew member I had my doubts she would have been effective in an emergency or her first response would be to her unborn child and not the passengers and just exit the aircraft if an evacuation was ordered, however due to discrimination you cannot voice these concerns because the law states they can continue to fly until they are x months pregnant. If I was a passenger I would actually be quite shocked to see a flight attendant that visable pregnant perched up there in her crew seat.
As for seating a pregnant women in an exit row unless she was about to give birth or needed an extension seat belt or I felt she just wouldnt cope with the stress I would leave her in that seat, what right do I have to tell a women to move when clearly our cabin crew are permitted to fly when they cant even walk down the cabin of a DASH 8 without having to turn side ways.
Many years ago women would never dream of flying in the late stages of pregnancy but times have changed and some women are now giving birth at 35,000ft assisted by the trusty cabin crew/midwife/nurse/doctor but never fear that call bell will go off in the middle of the delivery and Mr Joe Blow sitting in 2A will be looking for his coke.
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"Actually....very stupid point In The North
As we all know, as soon as a crew member discovers that they are pregnant they have to stop flying immediately!!! So that would never happen....unless of course the crewmember decided not to tell anyone...
Have you ever seen a pregnant hosty???"
Wow! I COULD respond just as rudely, but I'll leave it at this:
Yes, as a matter of fact I HAVE seen a pregnant hosty. Many in fact. If you looked at my location it says Canada and OBVIOUSLY we have different regulations there. As for the pregnant hosties, I was one of them. I flew until I was 35 weeks pregnant before going offline and onto modified work. It was a decision made between my doctor and myself. I was in a positon to enjoy quite decent seniority and could pick my schedule. I also had some vacation time during the first three months so the flying was quite light. I didn't suffer from morning sickness (not all pregnant women do) and was full of energy. I never doubted that I would be fully capable during an emergency. I was able to fulfill all of my job functions apart from moving heavy cannisters from above shoulder level to the floor and back again, but that can take two FAs at the best of time. Had this not been the case I would have removed myself from flying. Some FAs DO go off line immediately. It's a personal choice. If your medical professional feels you are fit to fly, then it's up to you. For ME, working three days a week actually afforded me LESS stress than driving to the office FOUR days in a row, in rush hour traffic etc etc.
I asked the original question because it was something I had considered while pregnant. I was never actually faced with it, but wondered how others would handle it. Simple question. And EAAFA had an EXCELLENT point. What if the pregnant person in question was an off duty FA? Wouldn't you rather they were seated at the exit than 'Joe Blow" who is unfamiliar with procedures?
Incidentally, passengers LOVED the fact that I was pregnant. And believe it or not, it was probably, during my 15 years of flying, the time that I was given the most respect and basic friendly interaction from passengers!
As we all know, as soon as a crew member discovers that they are pregnant they have to stop flying immediately!!! So that would never happen....unless of course the crewmember decided not to tell anyone...
Have you ever seen a pregnant hosty???"
Wow! I COULD respond just as rudely, but I'll leave it at this:
Yes, as a matter of fact I HAVE seen a pregnant hosty. Many in fact. If you looked at my location it says Canada and OBVIOUSLY we have different regulations there. As for the pregnant hosties, I was one of them. I flew until I was 35 weeks pregnant before going offline and onto modified work. It was a decision made between my doctor and myself. I was in a positon to enjoy quite decent seniority and could pick my schedule. I also had some vacation time during the first three months so the flying was quite light. I didn't suffer from morning sickness (not all pregnant women do) and was full of energy. I never doubted that I would be fully capable during an emergency. I was able to fulfill all of my job functions apart from moving heavy cannisters from above shoulder level to the floor and back again, but that can take two FAs at the best of time. Had this not been the case I would have removed myself from flying. Some FAs DO go off line immediately. It's a personal choice. If your medical professional feels you are fit to fly, then it's up to you. For ME, working three days a week actually afforded me LESS stress than driving to the office FOUR days in a row, in rush hour traffic etc etc.
I asked the original question because it was something I had considered while pregnant. I was never actually faced with it, but wondered how others would handle it. Simple question. And EAAFA had an EXCELLENT point. What if the pregnant person in question was an off duty FA? Wouldn't you rather they were seated at the exit than 'Joe Blow" who is unfamiliar with procedures?
Incidentally, passengers LOVED the fact that I was pregnant. And believe it or not, it was probably, during my 15 years of flying, the time that I was given the most respect and basic friendly interaction from passengers!
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In The North, I was not meant to sound rude....simply Irish Sarcasm!
However it shocks me that some countries allow pregnant flight attendants! My mother who flew for 30 years before retiring suffered two major mis-carraiges which she thinks may have had to do a lot with remaining flying for a only a number of weeks before she discovered she was pregnant on both occassions.
I find the word "discriminate" over used for all the wrong reasons in this PC world. We use it too many times when we dont get what we want. I personally dont believe I would be discriminating against a pregnant woman by moving her from the exit row...I move which I am MANDATED to do by the CAA! If I perhaps told her that she could not fly because I did not want a pregnant lady going into labour onboard then I would be discriminating! I may be a man (lets leave that for another thread) but I would sure as hell not want my pregnant partner put in a position that could have a detremental effect on my child.
However it shocks me that some countries allow pregnant flight attendants! My mother who flew for 30 years before retiring suffered two major mis-carraiges which she thinks may have had to do a lot with remaining flying for a only a number of weeks before she discovered she was pregnant on both occassions.
I find the word "discriminate" over used for all the wrong reasons in this PC world. We use it too many times when we dont get what we want. I personally dont believe I would be discriminating against a pregnant woman by moving her from the exit row...I move which I am MANDATED to do by the CAA! If I perhaps told her that she could not fly because I did not want a pregnant lady going into labour onboard then I would be discriminating! I may be a man (lets leave that for another thread) but I would sure as hell not want my pregnant partner put in a position that could have a detremental effect on my child.
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You see, regulations aside - as we have clearly stated different countries have different rules - I could not see myself flying when pregnant. I would miss it a lot, but it's a stressful job (at least here at ****tty-Haul, apaddyinuk!! ) and I remember very well when I was pregnant I was throwing up every other minute and was feeling really tired!
I know things could be different the second time, but I think I'd like to take things easy.
Miscarriages unfortunately are very common among hosties, a few friends of mine have had this problem and I too am one of the unlucky ones. I would never do anything to compromise the health of my baby, even if it hasn't been "technically" proven yet that flying is definitely dangerous for the foetus. And let's be honest, it is not the healthiest of jobs.
However it is good to see that there are people who have chosen to fly while expecting a baby like In The North who have had healthy babies, have enjoyed a trouble-free pregnancy and have enjoyed their flying at the same time.
I wouldn't be able to choose my rosters so if I struggle doing 12hrs double duties like Naples-Geneva now, imagine with a big bump. NO, Thanks!!!!!!
FBW
PS: apaddyinuk, yes sometimes you can be right too!!
Oh I forgot to say, I had a woman deliver on board 3 years ago, during a 13hr ETOPS flight. In Italy the CC curse at the Aviation medicine examiners (I promise apaddyinuk, what we do over here is NOTHING compared to that!) but that day all we had learnt came in really handy. The boys tried to be brave but couldn't face it, so it was up to us girls to try to help this woman who didn't speak a word of english or italian. It wasn't the happiest of my flying moments. Very difficult, lots of blood and the baby eventually died - was still alive when we landed though, but she was premature and very tiny. It took me months to get over it, not for the birth itself as I had already seen a few (in hospital!) but for the situation and the outcome.
When I see a heavily pregnant passenger nowadays I thank God I fly short haul!!!!
) and I remember very well when I was pregnant I was throwing up every other minute and was feeling really tired! I know things could be different the second time, but I think I'd like to take things easy.
Miscarriages unfortunately are very common among hosties, a few friends of mine have had this problem and I too am one of the unlucky ones. I would never do anything to compromise the health of my baby, even if it hasn't been "technically" proven yet that flying is definitely dangerous for the foetus. And let's be honest, it is not the healthiest of jobs.
However it is good to see that there are people who have chosen to fly while expecting a baby like In The North who have had healthy babies, have enjoyed a trouble-free pregnancy and have enjoyed their flying at the same time.
I wouldn't be able to choose my rosters so if I struggle doing 12hrs double duties like Naples-Geneva now, imagine with a big bump. NO, Thanks!!!!!!
FBW
PS: apaddyinuk, yes sometimes you can be right too!!
Oh I forgot to say, I had a woman deliver on board 3 years ago, during a 13hr ETOPS flight. In Italy the CC curse at the Aviation medicine examiners (I promise apaddyinuk, what we do over here is NOTHING compared to that!) but that day all we had learnt came in really handy. The boys tried to be brave but couldn't face it, so it was up to us girls to try to help this woman who didn't speak a word of english or italian. It wasn't the happiest of my flying moments. Very difficult, lots of blood and the baby eventually died - was still alive when we landed though, but she was premature and very tiny. It took me months to get over it, not for the birth itself as I had already seen a few (in hospital!) but for the situation and the outcome.
When I see a heavily pregnant passenger nowadays I thank God I fly short haul!!!!
Last edited by flybywire; 22nd Sep 2005 at 17:16.
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apaddyinuk: Sorry, sometimes sarcasm is a little difficult to get through text. Didn't mean to take it personally. Let me be quite clear, however. My decision to fly during my pregnancy was personal. I discussed it a great length with my doctor and we decided, together, that I was fit to fly. Had there ever been ANY doubt that it was not safe, I wouldn't have done it. Plain and simple. Not everyone is as fortunate as I was. Had I been sick, unable to perform my job or simply told that it was not in my, or my baby's best interest, I would have grounded myself. Again, it's a personal decision. As it was, my daughter was born healthy and happy and at 8 years old is beautiful and SOOO smart (no I'm not biased at all). It all worked out for me. Everyone should decide for themselves.
As for allowing a pregnant pax to sit at an exit row: I've thought about it and here's what I came up with.Obviously if your country, or even your airline for that matter, has a regulation about this, you follow it. Otherwise it's a judgement call. I'm not sure if the regulations are different around the world, but in Canada, ANY passenger seated at an exit row is briefed prior to take off. (eg, if you're on the A320 and there are 4 window exits, you brief 12 people). We are very specific regarding details--what do to, when to do it, how much the exit weights etc. It is then up to the individuals. They are asked, and required to respond as to whether they have any questions, whether they understood and whether they feel comfortable sitting there. If the passengers have listened and agree to what they've heard, I leave them there. I stand by my statement that a pregnant woman could be quite capable of operating that exit. (I have a friend who is about 8 months pregnant, goes to the gym and could seriously out weight-lift half the men in that place! I would take her at an exit row over a lot of people any day!). The thing is that the people at the row are there for an UNPLANNED emergency. Once that exit is open they are not required to stick around and evacuate the rest of the aircraft. They evacuate themselves, end of story. Would I use a pregnant woman as an ABP in a PLANNED emergency? Probably not. She may then be asked to not only open the door if I'm incapacitated, but help direct passengers off the aircraft. I'd imagine many mothers (or fathers for that matter), whether their kids were on the plane or not, would hesitate to stick around if they could save their butts! Including the pregnant ones.
Anyway, blah blah blah from me. I seem to have the gift of the gab this evening. I'll leave it at that!
As for allowing a pregnant pax to sit at an exit row: I've thought about it and here's what I came up with.Obviously if your country, or even your airline for that matter, has a regulation about this, you follow it. Otherwise it's a judgement call. I'm not sure if the regulations are different around the world, but in Canada, ANY passenger seated at an exit row is briefed prior to take off. (eg, if you're on the A320 and there are 4 window exits, you brief 12 people). We are very specific regarding details--what do to, when to do it, how much the exit weights etc. It is then up to the individuals. They are asked, and required to respond as to whether they have any questions, whether they understood and whether they feel comfortable sitting there. If the passengers have listened and agree to what they've heard, I leave them there. I stand by my statement that a pregnant woman could be quite capable of operating that exit. (I have a friend who is about 8 months pregnant, goes to the gym and could seriously out weight-lift half the men in that place! I would take her at an exit row over a lot of people any day!). The thing is that the people at the row are there for an UNPLANNED emergency. Once that exit is open they are not required to stick around and evacuate the rest of the aircraft. They evacuate themselves, end of story. Would I use a pregnant woman as an ABP in a PLANNED emergency? Probably not. She may then be asked to not only open the door if I'm incapacitated, but help direct passengers off the aircraft. I'd imagine many mothers (or fathers for that matter), whether their kids were on the plane or not, would hesitate to stick around if they could save their butts! Including the pregnant ones.
Anyway, blah blah blah from me. I seem to have the gift of the gab this evening. I'll leave it at that!
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In the North...."the gift of the gab"....Are you sure your not Irish???? HAHAHAHA!!! Id love to sit down and talk all sorts of jargon with you over several pints!!!! I must admit, as far as explaining your point...WELL DONE! After reading that I will admit that yeah, if you have explained it to the customer that this is what is expected of them and they are still ok with it then your job is done and you can be happy to expect the customers to help out should the c&$p hit the fan!
Where I fly things are very highly regulated including flying when pregnant. Why it is regulated more so here than in other parts of the world I dont know but I guess its one of those things...for instance, its illegal to drive while speaking on a mobile phone here but it is not in other countries. It will just be one of those things that hangs in a shadow i guess and this thread has certainly highlighted that!!!!
Flybywire....keep in touch, of your ever flying out of LHR on staff travel....message me!!! Let me know if your on a certain BA crew union forum!!!!!
Where I fly things are very highly regulated including flying when pregnant. Why it is regulated more so here than in other parts of the world I dont know but I guess its one of those things...for instance, its illegal to drive while speaking on a mobile phone here but it is not in other countries. It will just be one of those things that hangs in a shadow i guess and this thread has certainly highlighted that!!!!
Flybywire....keep in touch, of your ever flying out of LHR on staff travel....message me!!! Let me know if your on a certain BA crew union forum!!!!!
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Hi all.... wow!! This thread is certainly very interesting.
I agree with 'In the North' that if there is no law then of course each individual crew member would have to make a judgement call, using their own experience and airline policy.
As for the point of if the pregnant pax was an off-duty F/A, then I guess as long as legally allowed to do so, she may be better than the average Joe to occupy that seat.
The pregnant when flying thing interests me too - I actually only found out a year or two ago that in some countries (eg the US) it is allowed, as a friend told me about an FA on a flight who was very obviously pregnant! Different strokes for different folks I guess!
Paddy, it's illegal to use a mobile when driving in most parts of Aus, too... but that doesn't seem to stop 'em!!!
Keep it coming, people, this is great reading!!
I agree with 'In the North' that if there is no law then of course each individual crew member would have to make a judgement call, using their own experience and airline policy.
As for the point of if the pregnant pax was an off-duty F/A, then I guess as long as legally allowed to do so, she may be better than the average Joe to occupy that seat.
The pregnant when flying thing interests me too - I actually only found out a year or two ago that in some countries (eg the US) it is allowed, as a friend told me about an FA on a flight who was very obviously pregnant! Different strokes for different folks I guess!
Paddy, it's illegal to use a mobile when driving in most parts of Aus, too... but that doesn't seem to stop 'em!!!
Keep it coming, people, this is great reading!!
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apaddyinuk, it's nice to see you have settled things with In the North.
However, describing someone's comments as "stupid" is not funny. You should remember that this is an international forum. Laws and company policies differ greatly, so don't assume that someone is stupid because they are not aware of the regulations in your country.
Also, I doubt that flight attendants all over Europe must stop flying immediately if they become pregnant. It seems outdated to me. Luckily, in Australia, like North America, we are more open to giving the individual some choice in the matter.
However, describing someone's comments as "stupid" is not funny. You should remember that this is an international forum. Laws and company policies differ greatly, so don't assume that someone is stupid because they are not aware of the regulations in your country.
Also, I doubt that flight attendants all over Europe must stop flying immediately if they become pregnant. It seems outdated to me. Luckily, in Australia, like North America, we are more open to giving the individual some choice in the matter.
