F/A PAX ratios

[sunshine40]

The BBC would like to hear from anyone who has concerns about the f/a / pax ratios increasing from 1:36 to 1:50 on aircraft such as the dash-8 and what you think the safety implications are.

All information will be treated in strictest confidence. Either PM me here or contact [email protected] or call me on 01752 234554.

Kate

[OzzieO]

Kate I'm confused. Do you mean the UK? The ratio is already 1-50.

[WHBM]

Kate, where did 1:36 come from ?

It's 1-19 Not required
20-50 One
51-100 Two
Thereafter 1 extra CC per extra 50 seats.

Possibly you have mixed the statutory requirement (above) with what airlines actually do. Many operate well inside the legal limits. A decision questioned was Easyjet moving from 149 seat 737s to 156 seat A319s, which requires an extra CC member, up rom 3 to 4.

[sunshine40]

Begging your pardon. My understanding was that it had recently shifted from 1:36 up to 1:50 and there were worries about the saftey aspect, especially if you're trying to get 50 people out by yourself in a hurry. Also, how experienced to you have to be to work a flight on your own?

I want to A. get my facts straight and B. find out if this is a safety issue considering all the other stresses you have to cope with.

Thanks

[kirkbymoorside]

The operating regulations (JAR OPS1) stipulate the following requirements regarding training etc for single cabin crew operations:

JAR-OPS 1.996 Single cabin crew
operations
(a) An operator shall ensure that each cabin crew member who does not have previous comparable experience, must complete the following before operating as a single cabin crew member:
(1) Training in addition to that required by JAR-OPS 1.1005 and JAR-OPS 1.1010 shall include particular emphasis on the following to reflect single cabin crew operations:
(i) Responsibility to the commander for the conduct of cabin safety and emergency procedure(s) specified in the
Operations Manual,
(ii) Importance of co-ordination and communication with the flight crew, management of unruly or disruptive
passengers,
(iii) Review of operator’s requirements and legal requirements,
(iv) Documentation,
(v) Accident and incident reporting,
(vi) Flight and duty time limitations.
(2) Familiarisation flying of at least 20 hours and 15 sectors. Familiarisation flights shall be conducted under the supervision of a suitably experienced cabin crew member on the aeroplane type to be operated. See AMC OPS 1.1012 (3).
(b) An operator shall ensure, before a cabin crew member is assigned to operate as a single cabin crew member, that this cabin crew member is competent to perform his duties in accordance with the procedures specified in the Operations Manual. Suitability for single cabin crew operations shall be addressed in the criteria for cabin crew selection, recruitment, training and assessment of competence.

Not sure if that will help you?

The ratios mentioned above have been in place for a long time with no recent changes.

The only interesting coincidence is that if I remember correctly the smaller Dash8-100/200s had around 36 seats and the larger Dash8-300 has 50.

[WHBM]

The CC play a key role in safety of the passenger. Sometimes I wish they could be a little more proactive, such as turfing out those who sit in the emergency exit row and then read their newspapers through the safety briefing into alternative seats. If you want to investigate safety concerns why not start with them

[sunshine40]

Good point

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

On emergency exits, why is it that they always seem to be reserved for frequent fliers now? That seems to me to be a safety issue. If you're flying that often you're not listening to safety briefs like you should be and what if your physical circumstances change?

Me, I always know how to open that door!

That's just my point of view not as a journo.

[KTPops]

On emergency exits, why is it that they always seem to be reserved for frequent fliers now?

A number of airlines will charge passengers a supplement in order to sit at an emergency exit and benefit from the extra legroom. However, a cabin crew member is always seated at said door for take off and landing. We are not required to brief these passengers on the operation of these doors unless a pre-meditated emergency takes place. During the preparation for this emergency we instruct the passengers seated at these doors how to open the exit should the crew member become incapacitated.

The exception to the rule is if a passenger is seated at a self help exit, often found over-wing. These are only used in the event of an emergency and it is the designated crew member's job to ensure passengers seated at these exits are briefed prior to departure.

I cannot speak for those members of cabin crew who do not carry out their duties properly. But I would always ensure that passengers seated at my door area:

A) Match the criteria required for using such seats. For example are not children, obese, disabled etc
B) Pay attention to the safety brief.
C) Do not have anything on their laps for take off and landing and stow any books or newspapers in the seat pocket.

I hope this helps you.

KTP

[smile]

HI Kate,

The pax ratios that you are talking about are relevant in Australia. We currently have the 1:36 ratio and there are moves at the moment, through parlament, to change this to the 1:50 ratio.

[WHBM]

If you're flying that often you're not listening to safety briefs like you should be

Big Harummmmmmph !!!!!

I do a lot of business flying and always, if I get a seat at the overwing exit, go through in my mind the actions of how to check for fire outside first, operate the door, swing it in, throw it out. They do differ. OK, I've a bit more aviation knowledge than some of my business colleagues, but I think as a group we have a lot more ability to handle it than a first-time flyer.

I'm always dismayed at colleagues who read their paper as they've "seen it before", and ask them if they would like the aircrew to have a similar approach to their pre-departure checks - "here's the checklist, oh everything should be alright, I've done it enough times now ....."

Sunshine40, glad you always know how to open the door. Can I ask you a question in return, without checking first, how much do you think the overwing door on a 737 actually weighs ?

[OZcabincrew]

Hi!

WHBM,

If i am ever doing an overwing briefing and a passenger is reading the newspaper while i do it, i will ask them to stop, simple. I need to feel comfortable that they are fully aware of the responsibilities placed on them while sitting in that seat and if they are distracted from me in anyway during the briefing, i'm not satisfied. At the end of the day, anyone who is sitting in the overwing exit rows needs to meet all of the requirements and if they don't, they need to be moved, this also comes down to ground staff allocating the correct people there and then the final say comes down to the cabin crew.

[SkySista]

Smile beat me to it - i believe you may be confusing the UK with Aus- as said there are some who would like to decrease the ratio to 1:50. I believe there were a fair few comments on a similar thread not too long ago.... I tried a search but can't seem to find it now...

[sunshine40]

Thank you

Thanks for all your responses. This forum is excellent for information, discussion and facts.

To answer your question WHBM I haven't looked but I suspect the overwing doors weigh a fair bit. I'm thinking 60 kilos? I'm sure you'll have the correct weight for me.

Cheers

[wiggy]

60 kg??? I hope not!

[WHBM]

I suspect the overwing doors weigh a fair bit. I'm thinking 60 kilos?

It's 18kgs (39 lbs). Doubt you could pick up a 60 kg door.

http://aviation-safety.net/airlinesa...php?type=103-5

It's significant because you need to know how much force to use. Too little and you will not be able to move the door. Too much and you'll spiral backwards with the door in your hands into the adjacent passenger.

Have known some passengers say on discussion that they would not throw the door out as it might be damaged. I can assure you if an overwing evacuation is necessary getting a replacement door from the stores is going to be the least of the airline's worries !

The current 737 model has a completely different overwing door which is not loose but hinges uowards.