EBA & IR Issues in Australia (Not for those easily offended!)
Join Date: Sep 2005
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hello together i am a fa of an german charter airline.
i read your thread with great intrest. there are many things a like here in germany in the airline busines. everything is changing to time limeted contracts but what i find most interesting and shocking is your work time.
what is your maximum flight duty time? here in germany it is 14 hours which may exceed for 2 more hours in unplanned circumstances. i canot belive that you are alowed to work longer than this, that´s slavery
i read your thread with great intrest. there are many things a like here in germany in the airline busines. everything is changing to time limeted contracts but what i find most interesting and shocking is your work time.
what is your maximum flight duty time? here in germany it is 14 hours which may exceed for 2 more hours in unplanned circumstances. i canot belive that you are alowed to work longer than this, that´s slavery
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It is a very interesting point you make, Jetlagger
I have often wondered how the casualisation of our workforce (which is being thrust upon us by greedy companies such as Qantas and the like) will eventually impact our ability to achieve the great, quintessential Australian dream. It sickens me that Howard is being so short sighted and is allowing this to take place during his reign. In generations to come we will see a huge social gap between 'the haves' and 'the have nots' - just thru the inability to purchase real estate, alone. It is so short sighted.
Thats my rant. I'm done.
Thats my rant. I'm done.
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You have to laugh at how they're putting these bull**** 'customer feedback surveys on the base wall, base by base' in LHR. Yet at the same time the base manager is on the phone to crew scaring them into not going sick.
I mean those feedback surveys are obviously really inspiring the crew!!
What a f**ken joke!
I mean those feedback surveys are obviously really inspiring the crew!!
What a f**ken joke!
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I have been reading these posts for a while now, not wanting to get into any abusive posts and then the compulsory replies.
Some observations…
I agree with Lowerlobe as to my misgivings about the dispensation for the jfk shuttle. I too believe that the company has ulterior motives in seeking the dispensation and that a yes vote will probably be used by the company at a later stage to degrade our work conditions further regardless of what the faaa has said.
“Secondly, what is to stop the company from replacing us with AKL crew even if we do vote yes”! …Exactly, there is no guarantee that we would not lose the shuttle and therefore jobs if we did vote yes again despite what the faaa has told us.
I can’t comment on short haul flying as I don’t know any short haul crew but if the figure of 40% is correct, then as jettlager has said it is a sad day for Australia as a whole when employers are able to reduce the permanent workforce with casuals to reduce their overheads (to maintain bonuses)…But at what cost to the country!!!!!!!!!!
This sort of thing has such a huge flow on effect that it is almost unimaginable. Not only will people not be able to get a loan for a house, the sort of thing that everyone aspires to but also a car, a fridge, a TV etc…..so not only does it affect the employees directly but then it flows on to the local retailers, transport etc…So you can imagine the huge effect this is going to have on future Australians.
“But wait the use of casuals will be strictly controlled famous last words of the FAAA Industrial officers”.
The effectiveness of the faaa in the last few years has also been a disappointment to me. When you try to contact the faaa it takes almost all day for them to get back to you and then they dismiss your concerns as being unrealistic and of no consequence and when they ask what would you have us do and you tell them ,they laugh and say they know what is best and to trust them.
As sure as the sun comes up in the east, the faaa officials of Warp57 and Guardian1 will be in here abusing anyone who dares to criticize them and the faaa but that is life I suppose
Some observations…
I agree with Lowerlobe as to my misgivings about the dispensation for the jfk shuttle. I too believe that the company has ulterior motives in seeking the dispensation and that a yes vote will probably be used by the company at a later stage to degrade our work conditions further regardless of what the faaa has said.
“Secondly, what is to stop the company from replacing us with AKL crew even if we do vote yes”! …Exactly, there is no guarantee that we would not lose the shuttle and therefore jobs if we did vote yes again despite what the faaa has told us.
I can’t comment on short haul flying as I don’t know any short haul crew but if the figure of 40% is correct, then as jettlager has said it is a sad day for Australia as a whole when employers are able to reduce the permanent workforce with casuals to reduce their overheads (to maintain bonuses)…But at what cost to the country!!!!!!!!!!
This sort of thing has such a huge flow on effect that it is almost unimaginable. Not only will people not be able to get a loan for a house, the sort of thing that everyone aspires to but also a car, a fridge, a TV etc…..so not only does it affect the employees directly but then it flows on to the local retailers, transport etc…So you can imagine the huge effect this is going to have on future Australians.
“But wait the use of casuals will be strictly controlled famous last words of the FAAA Industrial officers”.
The effectiveness of the faaa in the last few years has also been a disappointment to me. When you try to contact the faaa it takes almost all day for them to get back to you and then they dismiss your concerns as being unrealistic and of no consequence and when they ask what would you have us do and you tell them ,they laugh and say they know what is best and to trust them.
As sure as the sun comes up in the east, the faaa officials of Warp57 and Guardian1 will be in here abusing anyone who dares to criticize them and the faaa but that is life I suppose
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lowerlobe
In your last post lowerlobe you say "I agree with Lowerlobe as to my misgivings about the dispensation for the jfk shuttle'.
Well you have let the cat out of the bag now, haven't you? You are agreeing with yourself? but what that acvtually confirms is that you come in here under several identities and today you just happenned to forget who you were logged in as.
A further demonstration that you should not have any credibility attached to your words by others in here.
You can criticise me lowerlobe, but the problem is you don't have any solutions to the issues you raise. You simply criticise the FAAA for example over their plans but you yourself have no solutions.
But that demonstrates the obvious, they (in the FAAA) were elected by us because they do have knowledge and a strategy to protect our jobs. Unfortunately, you just want to lash out without much knowledge of industrial issues, at those who are actually attempting to protect your employment.
You need to sit down and consider what i have just said to you in a serious manner. You are probably a well intentioned person, but your knowledge base is limited and the way you assert baseless things is reckless.
Well you have let the cat out of the bag now, haven't you? You are agreeing with yourself? but what that acvtually confirms is that you come in here under several identities and today you just happenned to forget who you were logged in as.
A further demonstration that you should not have any credibility attached to your words by others in here.
You can criticise me lowerlobe, but the problem is you don't have any solutions to the issues you raise. You simply criticise the FAAA for example over their plans but you yourself have no solutions.
But that demonstrates the obvious, they (in the FAAA) were elected by us because they do have knowledge and a strategy to protect our jobs. Unfortunately, you just want to lash out without much knowledge of industrial issues, at those who are actually attempting to protect your employment.
You need to sit down and consider what i have just said to you in a serious manner. You are probably a well intentioned person, but your knowledge base is limited and the way you assert baseless things is reckless.
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To say that what you have heard from some shorthaulers about the casuals doing all the regionals is "cold hard facts" is just not correct. Dont want to get in some sort of arguement - you are a longhauler and i fly shorthaul. I fly on the aircraft and see who i am flying with and they are not all casuals - that is a cold hard fact. Its not some word of mouth fact.
From my observations the casuals are doing the flying such as... 4days trips with crappy hours, anything that involves a mid-night sector from either Per or Drw, some regionals such as the Sin-Drw-Adl-Syd sector and then the occasional random other flights to fill in where req'd.
You dont see them on the 4leg days, rock returns, cairns returns, per returns etc.
Cheers.
p.s. Whats got 4legs and f*cks a shorthaul hostie?
syd-mel-syd-mel!
From my observations the casuals are doing the flying such as... 4days trips with crappy hours, anything that involves a mid-night sector from either Per or Drw, some regionals such as the Sin-Drw-Adl-Syd sector and then the occasional random other flights to fill in where req'd.
You dont see them on the 4leg days, rock returns, cairns returns, per returns etc.
Cheers.
p.s. Whats got 4legs and f*cks a shorthaul hostie?
syd-mel-syd-mel!
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too funny
I thought lower had really lost it, couldn't even work out a typo for the sentence.
Too many years in the lowerlobe drinking the special Indian hash coffee.
(just pulling ya chain lower, keep fighting the fight and agreeing with yourself)
Too many years in the lowerlobe drinking the special Indian hash coffee.
(just pulling ya chain lower, keep fighting the fight and agreeing with yourself)
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so so so true lowerlobe
You call the FAAA and it DOES take all day for them to reply back!
And when theydo they try and dismiss or trivialise your comment/statement/querie.
However in the same tone we do need them, its like and insurance, we dont want to pay for it but we feel safer with it!
They really have to do something about the "they are all in a meeting" line.......
You call the FAAA and it DOES take all day for them to reply back!
And when theydo they try and dismiss or trivialise your comment/statement/querie.
However in the same tone we do need them, its like and insurance, we dont want to pay for it but we feel safer with it!
They really have to do something about the "they are all in a meeting" line.......
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40% of shorthaul casual - Tell him he's dreaming.
12-14% is closer to the mark. How about doing some proper research before mouthing off.
There are more than 2600 permanent shorthaul.
12-14% is closer to the mark. How about doing some proper research before mouthing off.
There are more than 2600 permanent shorthaul.
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lexus1,
the following is a post YOU made last year some time-
Quote-
"A workforce where 28% of workers are casual is a big ugly picture. Our children deserve the chance for a secure, permanent job."
----------------
A thinking person could hardly disagree with the sentiment but what ARE the actual numbers???
1000 "casuals" at shorthaul are the numbers bandied around here......?
the following is a post YOU made last year some time-
Quote-
"A workforce where 28% of workers are casual is a big ugly picture. Our children deserve the chance for a secure, permanent job."
----------------
A thinking person could hardly disagree with the sentiment but what ARE the actual numbers???
1000 "casuals" at shorthaul are the numbers bandied around here......?
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Eastern Boy...
Hey there Eastern Boy,
In regards to your post, were you by any chance in the hotel on the 21st of Sep with that Short Haul Hostie who now flies out of AKL and she was doing a PVG pattern? If so she is also a VERY good friend of mine. (Small World)
In regards to our pay, yes that is also correct, but our pay conditions were alot better before Jetconnect took over us and dwindle our conditions even more again. This is why i am saying that we as AKL crew are sick of it aswell, and are not going to take this bulls''t anymore.
Now that we are pemanent we CAN do something about it, and we are ALL going to stick together and get this done.
At this point in time, roughly 70% of Kiwi AKL based crew are in our union, with only 20% of the new Australian crew in our union.
The harsh fact at the moment in Auckland is that their is a split within our base between alot of kiwi AKL based crew and Australian hired AKL based crew.
As i have stated in another post, only around half of the crew who came over from Australia were strike breakers, and let me also tell you this... You will know who they are when you fly with them.
As i think most would agree, we as AKL crew work very hard, slog our arses off for what we do, and are usually the first to be out their with water, juice or get those call bells... But over time this has dwindled, and even more so since the new crew have come in with SERIOUS issues.
It is a known fact in AKL that these strike breakers are LAZY, GOSSIP, RUDE and down right think the world owes THEM a favour!!!
We were once very PROUD of our base, and even being able to work for Qantas... even just putting on our old uniform and putting it all together, you felt something special.
AKL base has become a place for those who are dis hearted, dont care, and just see it as an 'oppurtunity' to get into SYD base, which i have to say, is never going to happen.
Qantas are also giving us, just like the SYD/BNE/PER/MEL crew the same umbrella.... You either accept what we are doing or we will re-hire people within AUSTRALIA who will do the job and not care about anything, who they are, their dignity, nothing!!!
This is why i ahve said before, we are not going to ACCEPT it, and we need all bases to stick together, regardless of what nationality, base, religion... in order to get to each other lean on one another, gather ideas adn get it sorted... we all do have an education, a brain and we all know damn well we can think outside the square...lets do it...
God bless
Pico_or_goodrich?
PS: Currently word has it two classes are in training in Australia for AKL base, with those applicants selected in Australia.
AKL base will also be hiring another 80 crew very soon...Oct is apparently the case.
In regards to your post, were you by any chance in the hotel on the 21st of Sep with that Short Haul Hostie who now flies out of AKL and she was doing a PVG pattern? If so she is also a VERY good friend of mine. (Small World)
In regards to our pay, yes that is also correct, but our pay conditions were alot better before Jetconnect took over us and dwindle our conditions even more again. This is why i am saying that we as AKL crew are sick of it aswell, and are not going to take this bulls''t anymore.
Now that we are pemanent we CAN do something about it, and we are ALL going to stick together and get this done.
At this point in time, roughly 70% of Kiwi AKL based crew are in our union, with only 20% of the new Australian crew in our union.
The harsh fact at the moment in Auckland is that their is a split within our base between alot of kiwi AKL based crew and Australian hired AKL based crew.
As i have stated in another post, only around half of the crew who came over from Australia were strike breakers, and let me also tell you this... You will know who they are when you fly with them.
As i think most would agree, we as AKL crew work very hard, slog our arses off for what we do, and are usually the first to be out their with water, juice or get those call bells... But over time this has dwindled, and even more so since the new crew have come in with SERIOUS issues.
It is a known fact in AKL that these strike breakers are LAZY, GOSSIP, RUDE and down right think the world owes THEM a favour!!!
We were once very PROUD of our base, and even being able to work for Qantas... even just putting on our old uniform and putting it all together, you felt something special.
AKL base has become a place for those who are dis hearted, dont care, and just see it as an 'oppurtunity' to get into SYD base, which i have to say, is never going to happen.
Qantas are also giving us, just like the SYD/BNE/PER/MEL crew the same umbrella.... You either accept what we are doing or we will re-hire people within AUSTRALIA who will do the job and not care about anything, who they are, their dignity, nothing!!!
This is why i ahve said before, we are not going to ACCEPT it, and we need all bases to stick together, regardless of what nationality, base, religion... in order to get to each other lean on one another, gather ideas adn get it sorted... we all do have an education, a brain and we all know damn well we can think outside the square...lets do it...
God bless
Pico_or_goodrich?
PS: Currently word has it two classes are in training in Australia for AKL base, with those applicants selected in Australia.
AKL base will also be hiring another 80 crew very soon...Oct is apparently the case.
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PICO/Good rich
Yes what you say is mostly correct, the original kiwis that were employed were excellent its a shame that people like midnight63 and her entourage have destroyed your name.
Don't worry we here in OZ know who the strike breakers are and we have very long memories.
Anyway keep up the good work.
Yes what you say is mostly correct, the original kiwis that were employed were excellent its a shame that people like midnight63 and her entourage have destroyed your name.
Don't worry we here in OZ know who the strike breakers are and we have very long memories.
Anyway keep up the good work.
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Pico or Goodrich,
thanks for keeping us up to date on the AKL base.
Please continue to do so.
Don't worry.
As tow truck mentioned, we know all too well who is who when it comes to your base.
Keep your chin up.
Jettlager
---------------------------
Anyone interested in the industrial relations changes that threaten to alter the whole fabric of our Australian society might like to watch ABC's Four Corners program 8.30 PM this Monday.
It's important. Non more so for people working for exploitative employers like qantas.............
thanks for keeping us up to date on the AKL base.
Please continue to do so.
Don't worry.
As tow truck mentioned, we know all too well who is who when it comes to your base.
Keep your chin up.
Jettlager
---------------------------
Anyone interested in the industrial relations changes that threaten to alter the whole fabric of our Australian society might like to watch ABC's Four Corners program 8.30 PM this Monday.
It's important. Non more so for people working for exploitative employers like qantas.............
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MAM recruiting again
Hi
Mam are recruiting again for Asian language speakers. I think their last recruitment was just in August. Does anyone have any info on this? Is the recruitment for all bases?
Much flying for casuals or is it a bit dry at the moment? I remember not too long ago on here a few MAM casuals were mentioning that they were not getting much flying.
Also noticed that the Qantas website is accepting applications for Pilots and F/As also.
Mam are recruiting again for Asian language speakers. I think their last recruitment was just in August. Does anyone have any info on this? Is the recruitment for all bases?
Much flying for casuals or is it a bit dry at the moment? I remember not too long ago on here a few MAM casuals were mentioning that they were not getting much flying.
Also noticed that the Qantas website is accepting applications for Pilots and F/As also.
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Perth Base -going,going.............gone!!!!
Have just seen the patterns for BP241.........my favourite trip has returned after nearly a 5 year break-PER-NRT- PER......whoooo hooooo!!!!!!
Nothing like a 3 or 4 day slip in NRT ......especially these daze.
As for the PER Base-shame really. It was never going to work form day 1. It should of been Brisvegas as the Base in 2001. Another failed operation from the LHR base arhitect-Lee Peterson (how does this person keep her job??)
So now what happens to all those that reloacted and headed West. Apparently Kylie has been over there giving false hopes, but word is the axe will fall at the start of BP243 ie they can transfer East, perth shorthaul or VR.
For a base that was held up as the "model" for us crusty senior SYD folk to follow-yeah right!!!!!
Credit where its due though. I did do a few patterns there when they were doing the Paris trips. A really nice group of people-committed to QF and their Base..........The writing was on the wall-when there much loved line controller bailed last year to join the Visitors in syd.
"Thank you umpires, thank you ball boys.....game over"
Nothing like a 3 or 4 day slip in NRT ......especially these daze.
As for the PER Base-shame really. It was never going to work form day 1. It should of been Brisvegas as the Base in 2001. Another failed operation from the LHR base arhitect-Lee Peterson (how does this person keep her job??)
So now what happens to all those that reloacted and headed West. Apparently Kylie has been over there giving false hopes, but word is the axe will fall at the start of BP243 ie they can transfer East, perth shorthaul or VR.
For a base that was held up as the "model" for us crusty senior SYD folk to follow-yeah right!!!!!
Credit where its due though. I did do a few patterns there when they were doing the Paris trips. A really nice group of people-committed to QF and their Base..........The writing was on the wall-when there much loved line controller bailed last year to join the Visitors in syd.
"Thank you umpires, thank you ball boys.....game over"
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lexus1
Easternboy maybe wrong in his calculations but he did say where he got the information from, so its not like he pulled it out of thin air.
So I had a look at this myself and the short haul cabin crew senority list dated 1 July 2005 available on the intranet shows exactly 1075 permanent crew. So according to your figures 1525 permanent crew do not appear on the list for some reason, is that normal or maybe the list is incorrect?
The Source states that just under 3000 crew make up short haul and assuming this includes casuals and say you are correct that there is 2600 permanent crew are you trying to tell me there is only 364 MAM casuals as you say the percentage is only around 14%?
Easternboy maybe wrong in his calculations but he did say where he got the information from, so its not like he pulled it out of thin air.
So I had a look at this myself and the short haul cabin crew senority list dated 1 July 2005 available on the intranet shows exactly 1075 permanent crew. So according to your figures 1525 permanent crew do not appear on the list for some reason, is that normal or maybe the list is incorrect?
The Source states that just under 3000 crew make up short haul and assuming this includes casuals and say you are correct that there is 2600 permanent crew are you trying to tell me there is only 364 MAM casuals as you say the percentage is only around 14%?
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Ok so you are saying there is only 420 casuals in Qantas short haul, I think someone is dreaming now.
And of course the senority list is wrong.
Sure, sure and sure, I think the point is no-one really knows how many permanent or casual crew there are within Qantas except Qantas.
And of course the senority list is wrong.
Sure, sure and sure, I think the point is no-one really knows how many permanent or casual crew there are within Qantas except Qantas.
