EBA & IR Issues in Australia (Not for those easily offended!)
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I asked you to qualify your statement "Union membership is on the increase at VB". I await your response - or is it just a 'feeling' you get.
At a dispute hearing in the IRC a few months back, which the union lost, the FAAA advised the Commissioner they represented 30% of Virgin Blue crew. They were then asked by the Commissioner whether they had the the mandate to speak on behalf of all crew when only 1 in 3 were financial members. The hearing only went ahead because the company told the Commissioner they will allow the FAAA to represent this issue on this occasion.
As for joining the union at the last minute to save your bacon, that is a great scam. You only need sign up for fortnightly deductions and you can call them in. So you get the full services of the union for 2 fortnightly deductions (then get sacked).
I love it when it happens because it bleeds the FAAA of resources which is a good thing.
As for "People like you will be the first to join the union for protection". Is that another factual statement? Tell me how you have come to this conclusion? What fact do you base this statement on? What do I need protection from?
I await your response.
At a dispute hearing in the IRC a few months back, which the union lost, the FAAA advised the Commissioner they represented 30% of Virgin Blue crew. They were then asked by the Commissioner whether they had the the mandate to speak on behalf of all crew when only 1 in 3 were financial members. The hearing only went ahead because the company told the Commissioner they will allow the FAAA to represent this issue on this occasion.
As for joining the union at the last minute to save your bacon, that is a great scam. You only need sign up for fortnightly deductions and you can call them in. So you get the full services of the union for 2 fortnightly deductions (then get sacked).
I love it when it happens because it bleeds the FAAA of resources which is a good thing.
As for "People like you will be the first to join the union for protection". Is that another factual statement? Tell me how you have come to this conclusion? What fact do you base this statement on? What do I need protection from?
I await your response.
Last edited by Jet_Black_Monaro; 23rd Aug 2005 at 00:42.
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Jet Black Monaro. Where's the love?
There, there....come and lie down on the couch and tell us all about what the big, bad nasty Union did to you when you where a little boy!
Gosh, what ARE your issues?
I am not interested in your opinions (because I'm actually pro Unions rather than anti), however it DOES fascinate me as to why you have such an EXTREME and PASSIONATE dislike towards the Union movement. It is like you're venting spleen, everytime you post.
Come on. Tell us! (We wont breathe a word. Promise! Who are we going to tell )
Seriously, I am interested. What happened to cause such anger and bitterness issues? It is a fair question.
Gosh, what ARE your issues?
I am not interested in your opinions (because I'm actually pro Unions rather than anti), however it DOES fascinate me as to why you have such an EXTREME and PASSIONATE dislike towards the Union movement. It is like you're venting spleen, everytime you post.
Come on. Tell us! (We wont breathe a word. Promise! Who are we going to tell )
Seriously, I am interested. What happened to cause such anger and bitterness issues? It is a fair question.
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No anger, no bitterness. Just a passionate dislike of unions and particularly of unionists who try and ram their anti-company rhetoric down my gullet (regardless of which industry or which union). I will form my own views, thanks.
I enjoy exposing the views of unionists as being extreme and not representative of the rank and file. I enjoy exposing those who usually pass themselves off as speaking for the majority when they DON'T. Just look at the last EBA.
There is a silent majority out there that DO NOT endorse extremist unionism.
Enough said.
I enjoy exposing the views of unionists as being extreme and not representative of the rank and file. I enjoy exposing those who usually pass themselves off as speaking for the majority when they DON'T. Just look at the last EBA.
There is a silent majority out there that DO NOT endorse extremist unionism.
Enough said.
Last edited by Jet_Black_Monaro; 23rd Aug 2005 at 01:24.
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That silent majority like yourself JBM are more than happy to collect your salary/allowances and associated conditions though arent you? Even though they were negotiated by the very union you hate so much.
Until you start working under your own workplace agreement and give up everything afforded to you through your EBA negotiated by the FAAA you will get zero respect as your argument is as weak as you.
Until you start working under your own workplace agreement and give up everything afforded to you through your EBA negotiated by the FAAA you will get zero respect as your argument is as weak as you.
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Extreme?
What? And YOUR'E not EXTREME?
Oh Please. Come on!
I dont buy that story for one second. Spill. WHY the hate? What happened to you?
There is obviously more to your story than that answer. Your "passion" is too "extreme". You mention the FAAA or the Union with poison on your tongue every single time. What is going on?
Oh Please. Come on!
I dont buy that story for one second. Spill. WHY the hate? What happened to you?
There is obviously more to your story than that answer. Your "passion" is too "extreme". You mention the FAAA or the Union with poison on your tongue every single time. What is going on?
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Galley Hag,
My sentiments exactly.
Jet BuM,
If you ARE indeed a Flight Attendant, do you actually enjoy your job? Everytime you get on here you just continue on with your hate messages about Unions. Why dont you talk/laugh about your experiences as a FA? What trips do you do? What are your passengers like? Do you have fun on an overnight? Do you have fun with your coworkers? Do you like the company that you work for? I mean, being a Flight Attendant is a fun, enjoyable job after all. There is soOOOoooo much more to talk about other than anti Union stuff or the demise of QF for that matter.
uz32,
He definately AIN'T a Flight Attendant. That is for sure. Could be management. I used to think he was knocked back from QF two or three times and was just plain old sour grapes. But that doesnt account for "Union Issues" that he has. lolol
I have gotta know, JBM.... What brings up that spewing hate? I have laughed long and hard at some of your posts, now I am just plain intrigued.
more than happy to collect your salary/allowances and associated conditions though arent you? Even though they were negotiated by the very union you hate so much.
Jet BuM,
If you ARE indeed a Flight Attendant, do you actually enjoy your job? Everytime you get on here you just continue on with your hate messages about Unions. Why dont you talk/laugh about your experiences as a FA? What trips do you do? What are your passengers like? Do you have fun on an overnight? Do you have fun with your coworkers? Do you like the company that you work for? I mean, being a Flight Attendant is a fun, enjoyable job after all. There is soOOOoooo much more to talk about other than anti Union stuff or the demise of QF for that matter.
uz32,
He definately AIN'T a Flight Attendant. That is for sure. Could be management. I used to think he was knocked back from QF two or three times and was just plain old sour grapes. But that doesnt account for "Union Issues" that he has. lolol
I have gotta know, JBM.... What brings up that spewing hate? I have laughed long and hard at some of your posts, now I am just plain intrigued.
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JET-BLACK-MONARO
Geez you are painful ! Not only painful but you don't understand anything much at all whilst trying to make out that you do.
Guardian, congratulations on comprehensively and accurately addressing the issue of whether the FAAA current officials supported the LHR bse or not. Also, tow truck you are spot on with your comments too.
Of course the current EBA 7 (SUPPORTED BY 88% of crew ) has reference to the LHR base you dunderhead(JBM), IT HAS TO IN ORDER TO CONTAIN A CAP AND TO PROVIDE FOR ACCESS TO LHR FOR AUSSIE CREWS.
That does not mean the FAAA "agrees" with the LHR base.
TO REPEAT FOR THE INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGED IN HERE, ON DECEMBER 17, 2004 THE OLD CAP OF 370 FROM EBA 6 EXPIRED BECAUSE THE PREVIOUS FAAA OFFICIALS NEGOTIATED EBA 6 ON THE BASIS THAT THE OLD CAP WAS DATE LIMITED.
Therefore, the newly elected FAAA leadership (MIJATOV, SMEDLEY, REED) HAD TO CONDUCT EBA 7 NEGOTIATIONS FROM THE POSITION OF WHERE QF WAS NOT RESTRICTED BY ANY CAP FROM DECEMBER 18 2004 ONWARDS.
IT IS TO THEIR CREDIT THAT THEY MANAGED TO EXTRACT A NEW AND ONGOING CAP WHEN THERE WAS NO LIMITATION ON QF WHATSOEVER. NOT ONLY THAT, THE A380 AND A330 FLYING WAS SECURED FOR THE FIRST TIME, ACCESS TO LONDON GUARANTEED, BAD PROVISIONS FROM EBA 6 WERE REVERSED ETC ETC ETC
I join with the vast bulk of cabin crew (the silent majority) in supporting the current FAAA officials who are doing a fantastic job in the circumstances that we are in.
Im so glad they are in and not incompetents like Jet Black Monaro or some other fools who come in here.
I have spoken to the FAAA (mm), who also advised that many non members are joining the union due to the huge upswing of QF disciplinaries and other actions being taken against individuals.
Amazing how the non members are now rushing back to the FAAA , so much for that explanation offered by non members that they are exercising their freedom of choice to belong or not. MM also advised that people joining the FAAA because they are in trouble with QF, are being slugged 1 year in advance. GOOD ON HIM!!
Geez you are painful ! Not only painful but you don't understand anything much at all whilst trying to make out that you do.
Guardian, congratulations on comprehensively and accurately addressing the issue of whether the FAAA current officials supported the LHR bse or not. Also, tow truck you are spot on with your comments too.
Of course the current EBA 7 (SUPPORTED BY 88% of crew ) has reference to the LHR base you dunderhead(JBM), IT HAS TO IN ORDER TO CONTAIN A CAP AND TO PROVIDE FOR ACCESS TO LHR FOR AUSSIE CREWS.
That does not mean the FAAA "agrees" with the LHR base.
TO REPEAT FOR THE INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGED IN HERE, ON DECEMBER 17, 2004 THE OLD CAP OF 370 FROM EBA 6 EXPIRED BECAUSE THE PREVIOUS FAAA OFFICIALS NEGOTIATED EBA 6 ON THE BASIS THAT THE OLD CAP WAS DATE LIMITED.
Therefore, the newly elected FAAA leadership (MIJATOV, SMEDLEY, REED) HAD TO CONDUCT EBA 7 NEGOTIATIONS FROM THE POSITION OF WHERE QF WAS NOT RESTRICTED BY ANY CAP FROM DECEMBER 18 2004 ONWARDS.
IT IS TO THEIR CREDIT THAT THEY MANAGED TO EXTRACT A NEW AND ONGOING CAP WHEN THERE WAS NO LIMITATION ON QF WHATSOEVER. NOT ONLY THAT, THE A380 AND A330 FLYING WAS SECURED FOR THE FIRST TIME, ACCESS TO LONDON GUARANTEED, BAD PROVISIONS FROM EBA 6 WERE REVERSED ETC ETC ETC
I join with the vast bulk of cabin crew (the silent majority) in supporting the current FAAA officials who are doing a fantastic job in the circumstances that we are in.
Im so glad they are in and not incompetents like Jet Black Monaro or some other fools who come in here.
I have spoken to the FAAA (mm), who also advised that many non members are joining the union due to the huge upswing of QF disciplinaries and other actions being taken against individuals.
Amazing how the non members are now rushing back to the FAAA , so much for that explanation offered by non members that they are exercising their freedom of choice to belong or not. MM also advised that people joining the FAAA because they are in trouble with QF, are being slugged 1 year in advance. GOOD ON HIM!!
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Exactly. Provision was made for access of aussie crews to the LHR base. Say no aussies took the basing. Would that have resulted in an end to the base altogether? If all the batch up there at the moment come home, and you guys get your way where nobody else goes up there, what will happen? Oh, sorry, we will fill it with foreign nationals.
So if someone was to make a choice to go up there, how are they further eroding the conditions? The day the base started the conditions went out the door. If they get nobody from Aus up there, conditions are still out the door. If people from aus are up there, then conditions are still shot. What is the difference?
At least I suppose if they had filled the base completely with locals, there would be nearly 200 more fa's back here fighting over the same pool of flying. What would be the result - more assigned leave, etc.
Dimwits.
So if someone was to make a choice to go up there, how are they further eroding the conditions? The day the base started the conditions went out the door. If they get nobody from Aus up there, conditions are still out the door. If people from aus are up there, then conditions are still shot. What is the difference?
At least I suppose if they had filled the base completely with locals, there would be nearly 200 more fa's back here fighting over the same pool of flying. What would be the result - more assigned leave, etc.
Dimwits.
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White Pointer, just stop it!
Really you are starting to sound like peanut P, you just dont get it do you!
Why dont you call the FAAA and get someone to explain it to you all over again, and again until you get it!
By the way where is Peanut?
Really you are starting to sound like peanut P, you just dont get it do you!
Why dont you call the FAAA and get someone to explain it to you all over again, and again until you get it!
By the way where is Peanut?
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Fine.
Get all the aussies back from LHR. Get rid of some here to make room for them, or assign some more LSL/AL. Overall, less flying for everyone else (but more for other local new hires over there).
You really make sense.
Get all the aussies back from LHR. Get rid of some here to make room for them, or assign some more LSL/AL. Overall, less flying for everyone else (but more for other local new hires over there).
You really make sense.
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Every comment I have made results in abuse from the same majority who keep this thread going (about 5 or 6). For some (lowerlobe, jetlagger, speedbird, and a few others) how about a post from all of you that contains something other than crap directed at whoever dares to post on the day.
How about a post from any of you detailing about how you plan to get LHR flying back. What are your grand plans to get to London? Invent more rumours that they are totally incompetent, the base is sending QF broke, aircraft are diverting en masse due to the 5 hour services not being complete before landing, and just about anything else you can imagine. These are surely doing us the world of good. Either that or some people are living in denial of the real world out there.
How about a post from any of you detailing about how you plan to get LHR flying back. What are your grand plans to get to London? Invent more rumours that they are totally incompetent, the base is sending QF broke, aircraft are diverting en masse due to the 5 hour services not being complete before landing, and just about anything else you can imagine. These are surely doing us the world of good. Either that or some people are living in denial of the real world out there.
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white pointer,
people will be inclined to attack those who post misinformation.
You seem to still be under the impression that the FAAA support the LHR base and did so during it's startup.
Please read Guardian1's post again.
It describes the reality of the situation perfectly.
Jettlager
people will be inclined to attack those who post misinformation.
You seem to still be under the impression that the FAAA support the LHR base and did so during it's startup.
Please read Guardian1's post again.
It describes the reality of the situation perfectly.
Jettlager
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Tow Truck, yesterday you made the statement that union membership is on the rise at VB. I invited you to provide evidence of such yet no response. So as I expected you are making stuff up again. Unionists are very good at misinformation eg the current union movement IR ads on TV which have been shown to be mostly false.
As for you JBM (akaLeft2Primary banned from the forum), you are hardly the person to lecture someone on posting misinformation. I also asked you to qualify your statement of yesterday "The longhaul FAAA in no way endorsed the LHR base" [ie before you deleted it]
I say the endorsement was given by way of the signatures of the authorised representatives of the FAAA rabble. Why would they sign it if they didn't endorse it?
You then wrote "the FAAA and the members did not support the LHR base"
I say the majority of LH crew, over 70% did support it by way of their vote. If they didn't support it, why vote for it? There are many examples of other industries that went back to the drawing board when the EBA proposed to them was rejected by the employees. So why did your colleagues, the majority of them, vote for it?
Perhaps they understood the company makes the decisions, not the unions.
I love it when I am accused of being management. That old chestnut gets dragged out everytime I get under someone's skin.
As for you JBM (akaLeft2Primary banned from the forum), you are hardly the person to lecture someone on posting misinformation. I also asked you to qualify your statement of yesterday "The longhaul FAAA in no way endorsed the LHR base" [ie before you deleted it]
I say the endorsement was given by way of the signatures of the authorised representatives of the FAAA rabble. Why would they sign it if they didn't endorse it?
You then wrote "the FAAA and the members did not support the LHR base"
I say the majority of LH crew, over 70% did support it by way of their vote. If they didn't support it, why vote for it? There are many examples of other industries that went back to the drawing board when the EBA proposed to them was rejected by the employees. So why did your colleagues, the majority of them, vote for it?
Perhaps they understood the company makes the decisions, not the unions.
I love it when I am accused of being management. That old chestnut gets dragged out everytime I get under someone's skin.
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JBM,
Yes if you want the figures call the FAAA, they will let you know!
Now answer me two questions! Why are you so anti unionist?
and the other question- why would anyone with a sane mind have such hatred towards an organisation that only wants to improve its members conditions and ensure that the workforce is not exploited by greedy employers?
Yes if you want the figures call the FAAA, they will let you know!
Now answer me two questions! Why are you so anti unionist?
and the other question- why would anyone with a sane mind have such hatred towards an organisation that only wants to improve its members conditions and ensure that the workforce is not exploited by greedy employers?
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The Chief speaks
If you read the last two pages it is clear that the lefties are up to their old tricks. Whenever they have no valid counter argument, they go right off topic to divert attention from their unwinnable position. This is an old trick. Sure we clean the aircraft, but it really has nothing to do with IR and EBA. Why don't you start a seperate thread on that. It will make great reading.
Todays Paper - .....Geoff Dixon, said: "As far as we're concerned we're going to keep on making changes."
Well, that just about sums it up. You may speculate about changes at VB, but I can absolutely guarantee you are in deeper sh*t than I am.
Someone has to fly the domestic line while J* and domestic are off shore.
Todays Paper - .....Geoff Dixon, said: "As far as we're concerned we're going to keep on making changes."
Well, that just about sums it up. You may speculate about changes at VB, but I can absolutely guarantee you are in deeper sh*t than I am.
Someone has to fly the domestic line while J* and domestic are off shore.
Last edited by Jet_Black_Monaro; 24th Aug 2005 at 07:30.
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Ahh JBM you’re really clutching at straws now. I haven’t been debating the last 2 pages I’m only interested in Virgin at the moment.
"As far as we're concerned we're going to keep on making changes”
The chief does speak and let me tell you those changes include continuing to erode Virgin Blue’s market share through Jet Star with hedged fuel and a lower cost base.
‘You may speculate about changes at VB, but I can absolutely guarantee you are in deeper sh*t than I am.’
You’re getting pretty desperate aren’t you! A very silly statement indeed little boy. You’re in deep sh*t alright, right up to your nose hairs.
In addition there’s take over looming for Patrick Corp and Virgin Atlantic raking up huge loses on the SYD-HKG-LHR route. Goodness me it’s all going horribly wrong.
By the way if this has nothing to do with IR and EBA why do you keep responding?
"As far as we're concerned we're going to keep on making changes”
The chief does speak and let me tell you those changes include continuing to erode Virgin Blue’s market share through Jet Star with hedged fuel and a lower cost base.
‘You may speculate about changes at VB, but I can absolutely guarantee you are in deeper sh*t than I am.’
You’re getting pretty desperate aren’t you! A very silly statement indeed little boy. You’re in deep sh*t alright, right up to your nose hairs.
In addition there’s take over looming for Patrick Corp and Virgin Atlantic raking up huge loses on the SYD-HKG-LHR route. Goodness me it’s all going horribly wrong.
By the way if this has nothing to do with IR and EBA why do you keep responding?
Last edited by Pro Golfer 69; 24th Aug 2005 at 09:04.
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Dear JBM
this is the start...
""Richard's comments are laughable, given that he's never attended a single meeting of the board of Virgin Blue," Patrick spokesman Paul White said.
the end is near.
infighting! you may need the assistance of the FAAA after all.
this is the start...
""Richard's comments are laughable, given that he's never attended a single meeting of the board of Virgin Blue," Patrick spokesman Paul White said.
the end is near.
infighting! you may need the assistance of the FAAA after all.