Rude, revolting manners of CSMs
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Rude, revolting manners of CSMs
I was recently a crew member on a Qantas flight - the F/O boarded the flight and said hello to the crew and went to put his bag in the coat locker where 99% of F/Os put there bags on a 737 (the only place for their bag). As he was doing so the CSM came up from the rear of the aircraft and said "The Coat locker is full. It only takes 3 bags, and we have 3 bags in it. And I think As ours were there first, you will have to put yours somewhere else".
Just quietly I was a little shocked, as most CSMs are generally polite to the pilots! Is this normal behaviour for the senior cabin crew to be so rude (and it was very rude in my opinion) to the pilots?
I expected the F/O to blow up at her, but he was still fairly calm in his response!
Just quietly I was a little shocked, as most CSMs are generally polite to the pilots! Is this normal behaviour for the senior cabin crew to be so rude (and it was very rude in my opinion) to the pilots?
I expected the F/O to blow up at her, but he was still fairly calm in his response!
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MISUNDERSTANDING?
Coat lockers for crew bags? I always thought that these were for passengers' jackets, coats etc while the overhead lockers were for pax carry-on baggage. Why can't crew put their baggage that's not required in flight in the holds like other mortals. But there's the rub - most crew do not consider themselves as mortal!
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Don, the reason why the cabin crew and pilots take thier bags on board is that they often have a 4 to 5 sector day with up to 5 aircraft changes with only 25-30 minute turnarounds. Now this is all achievable with carry on baggage - however having to go down to baggage claims after every sector and wait 30-60 mins for your bag would make it impossible after the very first sector. So nobody considers themselves special, they generally just do what has to be done to get the aircraft airborne on time or as close as possible - after all it would be a hell of a lot easier to check your bag in once at the first flight of the day and pick it up at the end of the final sector. Don I really think you have missed the point of the post.
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I dont mind your post but as a Sydney S/H CSM (and a nice one 
) i reckon your post heading is pretty average. It certainly drew my attention, just maybe next time you could say "the rude and revolting manner of one csm".
And Don...seriously mate, you clearly don't know what your talking about. And if you bring something bigger than your wallet on my aircraft i'll make you check it underneath...just for giving us grief!
) i reckon your post heading is pretty average. It certainly drew my attention, just maybe next time you could say "the rude and revolting manner of one csm".And Don...seriously mate, you clearly don't know what your talking about. And if you bring something bigger than your wallet on my aircraft i'll make you check it underneath...just for giving us grief!
The real point of the post is that there's a problem that needs resolution - too many bags, not enough space and actors that aren't solution-focused.
OverheadPanel - why don't you flag the issue with your line management (with a proposed solution if you have one) and get them to come up with a workable procedure.
And where was the captain during this spit and scratch fest anyway?
OverheadPanel - why don't you flag the issue with your line management (with a proposed solution if you have one) and get them to come up with a workable procedure.
And where was the captain during this spit and scratch fest anyway?
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The spit and scratch fest was one sided (from the CSM - it continued indirectly all flight from her too). The F/O didnt take the bait from the CSM at all. (Maybe that aggrevated her more).
Apologies if all CSMs were implicated - you're right it was a generalisation and should have been directed at one female CSM.
The Captain was duly informed and bags were moved in an appropriate manner. (The captain shouldnt have to be informed - the F/O by law is the deputy commander of the aeroplane - that is dictated by law and the company manuals).
I would usually stick up for CSMs but she was clearly out of line - and worst of all just plain rude. Furthermore, she missed several important safety aspects in her job throughout the flight.
I think what it came down to was simply, she was a rude bully - and in this case she attempted to bully the wrong people - who at no stage that I could see had even aggravated her let alone had a chance to speak to her other than say hello!
Apologies if all CSMs were implicated - you're right it was a generalisation and should have been directed at one female CSM.
The Captain was duly informed and bags were moved in an appropriate manner. (The captain shouldnt have to be informed - the F/O by law is the deputy commander of the aeroplane - that is dictated by law and the company manuals).
I would usually stick up for CSMs but she was clearly out of line - and worst of all just plain rude. Furthermore, she missed several important safety aspects in her job throughout the flight.
I think what it came down to was simply, she was a rude bully - and in this case she attempted to bully the wrong people - who at no stage that I could see had even aggravated her let alone had a chance to speak to her other than say hello!
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Maybe a tad harsh.....but i guess by your post, you think it appropriate to be rude to a higher ranking crew member. Most airlines are quasi-militeristic - that is they have a chain of command albeit less strict than the military. The command is governed by 2 things. 1. Law - in Australia the civil aviation orders and regulations, and 2. the company. Unfortunately some CSMs and cabin crew seem blissfully unaware of this. In at least 1 case the Captain bypassed the company, went straight to CASA and had CASA remove her.
Whilst 99% of crew co-exist in a friendly relaxed manner, this is not an excuse for poor behaviour. The CSM is meant to lead by example. She is aslo meant to show some respect to her senior crew members, whether she respects them or not.
In this case she could easily have asked the F/O if he could put his bag somewhere else, but instead she has been "rude" from the outset. - and from the sounds of it, she wanted to cause a stink.
Whilst 99% of crew co-exist in a friendly relaxed manner, this is not an excuse for poor behaviour. The CSM is meant to lead by example. She is aslo meant to show some respect to her senior crew members, whether she respects them or not.
In this case she could easily have asked the F/O if he could put his bag somewhere else, but instead she has been "rude" from the outset. - and from the sounds of it, she wanted to cause a stink.
Insubordination = Defiance of authority? For simply being rude to another crew member?
I really don't think so. Why don't we all going back to looking after our customers and let the CSM get over it. If she can't and is consistently bolshy to the extent that it's having a detrimental effect on operations and/or passenger service, I'm sure Qantas has a disciplinary procedure.
The Captain could, of course, bypass this and go directly to CASA, tell them that aforementioned CSM refused to let his FO stow his bag in a locker and wait for their response.
I imagine it would be FO.
Let's all go back to sleep - this thread is a waste of pixels
I really don't think so. Why don't we all going back to looking after our customers and let the CSM get over it. If she can't and is consistently bolshy to the extent that it's having a detrimental effect on operations and/or passenger service, I'm sure Qantas has a disciplinary procedure.
The Captain could, of course, bypass this and go directly to CASA, tell them that aforementioned CSM refused to let his FO stow his bag in a locker and wait for their response.
I imagine it would be FO.
Let's all go back to sleep - this thread is a waste of pixels
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SO RevMan, we have now established that insubordination may have been an innappropriate choice of words on my part.
Maybe Inappropriate behaviour is more to your taste?
I always have interest when people feel motivated enough to write a reply, and at the end write that " this topic is a waste of space/pixels etc etc". If you feel that way, use that little mouse button of yours to click on another screen and scroll away.
Revman - No-one is forcing you to read and or reply to a topic/thread.
Maybe Inappropriate behaviour is more to your taste?
I always have interest when people feel motivated enough to write a reply, and at the end write that " this topic is a waste of space/pixels etc etc". If you feel that way, use that little mouse button of yours to click on another screen and scroll away.
Revman - No-one is forcing you to read and or reply to a topic/thread.
Blueloo
OK, if you agree with steering this thread in the direction of "proactive conflict resolution", I'm in.
If it's going to remain a rant about an individual flaring up for whatever reason, byeeeee.....
OK, if you agree with steering this thread in the direction of "proactive conflict resolution", I'm in.
If it's going to remain a rant about an individual flaring up for whatever reason, byeeeee.....
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Wonder if I just had your CSM, - some narky old Cow! - First thing she did was get on and whinge about the tech crew bags in the coat locker. Wasnt interested in hearing the flight details until she was good and ready either!
Talk about unpleasant people! - I feel sorry for the passengers. Luckily we have a bullet proof door to keep the nasty CSMs out! (On the other hand luckily most of the CSMs are good blokes/ladies)
Talk about unpleasant people! - I feel sorry for the passengers. Luckily we have a bullet proof door to keep the nasty CSMs out! (On the other hand luckily most of the CSMs are good blokes/ladies)