The official 'I hate BA crew thread'.
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I still don't think you get my point TFlyGuy!
I can totally accept that you have come accross rude Virgin crew. I have encountered a fair few in my time at VS! I just think that your comments are contributing to the growing attitude on this forum that we should badmouth each other because of the uniform we wear.
Whether you intend to or not, you are perpetuating this attitude by your comments. What point are you trying to make by saying :
You are trying to imply that this is what one should expect from crew at Virgin and I believe this to be wrong and quite careless of you.
KTP
I can totally accept that you have come accross rude Virgin crew. I have encountered a fair few in my time at VS! I just think that your comments are contributing to the growing attitude on this forum that we should badmouth each other because of the uniform we wear.
Whether you intend to or not, you are perpetuating this attitude by your comments. What point are you trying to make by saying :
Just the other week I saw a VS lady almost trip over her luggage rather than just ask me to press floor 2.
KTP
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Excuse an air trafficker dropping in on this thread, but as a member of the BOAC 'Junior Jet Club' since the age of 8 I would like to stand up for all the BOAC/BA cabin crew I have flown with over the years.
They operate to the highest professional standards and have to put up with some right irritating t**ts who treat them like lowlife
Keep up the good work, some us do appreciate the work you do.
PS. A big thank you to Anne on the BOAC flight from LHR to JFK 21 Sept 1974 who gave me a double lolly and took me to see the drivers in the pointy end.
They operate to the highest professional standards and have to put up with some right irritating t**ts who treat them like lowlife
Keep up the good work, some us do appreciate the work you do.
PS. A big thank you to Anne on the BOAC flight from LHR to JFK 21 Sept 1974 who gave me a double lolly and took me to see the drivers in the pointy end.
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jerrystinger- I flew BA to FRA last month, I didn't get a lolly and didn't met the pointy-end drivers this time
The BA girls/boys are still the best cabin-crew over the 30 odd years I have flown.
Oh yes and VS are just about on par too!
The BA girls/boys are still the best cabin-crew over the 30 odd years I have flown.
Oh yes and VS are just about on par too!
Oh Shazbat!
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Could I suggest that maybe anyone posting to this thread who isn't actually aircrew should first be made to work for 3 months doing the hours & duties that the BA/VS etc CC have to do. If, at the end of those three months, you're still standing toe-to-toe with these guys, then maybe post comments about their standard of service.
For my part, I suspect that within one month in working early & late rosters, having to deal with all the organisational problems that crop up behind the scenes and the myriad types of beligerent air travellers that I would probably end up taking one passenger on each flight to the front and marmalising them in full view of the others as a warning to them to behave. (Hmm..idea : Air Beligerent - we scare our passengers into flying)
Anyway, to the starting point of the thread. As a society we want to travel by air more, and thus the airlines need more planes & CC to work them. With the growth comes the problem - a basic lowering of standards of the folks who get employed (and a lowering of standards of the folks who travel as well!). Clearly some companies are trying very hard to keep up those standards despite cost & operational pressures, but it is quite likely that sometimes, somewhere there will be a minority of staff who do not act as the company would like. Is it really fair to brand the whole organisation through that minority when the answer lies in addressing through the management with direct responsibility for ensuring that the sort of behaviour is nipped in the bug and corrected.
However to BA - we flew BA to New York earlier this year and the CC couldn't have been nicer when my wife was ill on the flight out. I've flown BA shuttle flights and at the end of a long day, a small amount of humour in the cabin actually makes the flight enjoyable when you're sitting on a plane when you would prefer to be at home already. I prefer to judge BA CC by those experiences.
VS too - we had to come home from the US in hurry through berievement and we were treated very,very well.
I agree with emmathesatr - take it up any problems with the responsible managers, and if they don't respond go upwards.
For my part, I suspect that within one month in working early & late rosters, having to deal with all the organisational problems that crop up behind the scenes and the myriad types of beligerent air travellers that I would probably end up taking one passenger on each flight to the front and marmalising them in full view of the others as a warning to them to behave. (Hmm..idea : Air Beligerent - we scare our passengers into flying)
Anyway, to the starting point of the thread. As a society we want to travel by air more, and thus the airlines need more planes & CC to work them. With the growth comes the problem - a basic lowering of standards of the folks who get employed (and a lowering of standards of the folks who travel as well!). Clearly some companies are trying very hard to keep up those standards despite cost & operational pressures, but it is quite likely that sometimes, somewhere there will be a minority of staff who do not act as the company would like. Is it really fair to brand the whole organisation through that minority when the answer lies in addressing through the management with direct responsibility for ensuring that the sort of behaviour is nipped in the bug and corrected.
However to BA - we flew BA to New York earlier this year and the CC couldn't have been nicer when my wife was ill on the flight out. I've flown BA shuttle flights and at the end of a long day, a small amount of humour in the cabin actually makes the flight enjoyable when you're sitting on a plane when you would prefer to be at home already. I prefer to judge BA CC by those experiences.
VS too - we had to come home from the US in hurry through berievement and we were treated very,very well.
I agree with emmathesatr - take it up any problems with the responsible managers, and if they don't respond go upwards.
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Please forgive another air trafficker butting in on your thread but I am a former BA cabin crew member. BA crews receive some of the best training in the industry. I used to fly shorthaul from Gatwick and we worked incredibly hard on our flights to make sure the passengers had a great flight with us and much of the feedback we got from the passengers reflected that.
Like all crews, we were grossly underpaid for the responsibility we had, but we made the best of it and many passengers commented how much the crews seemed to enjoy their work.
The only downside I ever encountered was the whole BA internal politics. To a few, especially the older crew, seniority was such a big deal, and the fact that you wouldnt be considered for promotion until your seniority number came up was a bit disheartning. The other issue was the Heathrow superior to Gatwick which in turn was superior to regional, was a bit depressing. Several times on night stops we would be ignored by the Heathrow crews staying in the same hotel. Having said that those crew members were very much in the minority and the vast majority of the crews I had the pleasure of working with gave 110% onboard.
Like all crews, we were grossly underpaid for the responsibility we had, but we made the best of it and many passengers commented how much the crews seemed to enjoy their work.
The only downside I ever encountered was the whole BA internal politics. To a few, especially the older crew, seniority was such a big deal, and the fact that you wouldnt be considered for promotion until your seniority number came up was a bit disheartning. The other issue was the Heathrow superior to Gatwick which in turn was superior to regional, was a bit depressing. Several times on night stops we would be ignored by the Heathrow crews staying in the same hotel. Having said that those crew members were very much in the minority and the vast majority of the crews I had the pleasure of working with gave 110% onboard.
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As a Ba longhaul crewmember I really have to comment as much as I would rather keep my mouth shut.
I must admit that yes we are inconsistant. The problem here is we simply have Pursers who want to adapt the service their own way and yes, maximising crew rest is a major problem in BA! In my previous airline we didnt have crew rest, even on flights as long as 14 hours and the service delivery remained the same for every flight, even our bar tops were dressed the exact same way and you would be reported if you put as much as a stack of plastic cups in the wrong place.
Many of the new crew on my fleet have problems deciphering what is standard after a few months because they find that only on a handful of flights are things done to standard. But at the end of the day, I have heard very VERY few remarks from passengers getting off my flights to suggest that we are doing something wrong, that post about the gent coming back from BGI certainly raised an eyebrow as this is one of my routes and I certainly have never noticed any behaviour like this since I joined BA and this is something which should have been brought to the attention of the CSD there and then in order to prevent it from happening again, most of our CSD's do indeed retell stories of shameful crew during our briefings asking us not to follow down the same path.
What I do hear about from the passengers is the quality (or lack of it) from our handling agents around the world which is something that definately needs looking at.
But just the other day a relatively young chap (early 30's) who was perhaps sitting in the worst seat right down the back of a 777 next to the galley and could probably hear our crews conversations (nothing rude...just humourous stuff and putting the world to right...its good team building chatting to your crew on a long flight and a good sign of a good bunch of crew) got off the plane and as he passed me at doors three he shook my hand and said thanks for a great flight and "you guys are the reason I wont fly anyone else"!!!! He continued to do this at door 2 and to the CSD, it was at this point she noticed he was a Goldcard holder despite it not showing on the PIL...
So at the end of the day I feel yes, we do have our faults, and yes we do have crew who do tarnish the reputation for everyone else but you need to remember that for such a large airline you are bound to have a few who slipped through the net. But I also feel that everyone loves to hate the big guy, regardless of their experiences of the company. I personally love BA moreso than the 3 other flag carriers Iv worked for and I wont be leaving here in a hurry!
I must admit that yes we are inconsistant. The problem here is we simply have Pursers who want to adapt the service their own way and yes, maximising crew rest is a major problem in BA! In my previous airline we didnt have crew rest, even on flights as long as 14 hours and the service delivery remained the same for every flight, even our bar tops were dressed the exact same way and you would be reported if you put as much as a stack of plastic cups in the wrong place.
Many of the new crew on my fleet have problems deciphering what is standard after a few months because they find that only on a handful of flights are things done to standard. But at the end of the day, I have heard very VERY few remarks from passengers getting off my flights to suggest that we are doing something wrong, that post about the gent coming back from BGI certainly raised an eyebrow as this is one of my routes and I certainly have never noticed any behaviour like this since I joined BA and this is something which should have been brought to the attention of the CSD there and then in order to prevent it from happening again, most of our CSD's do indeed retell stories of shameful crew during our briefings asking us not to follow down the same path.
What I do hear about from the passengers is the quality (or lack of it) from our handling agents around the world which is something that definately needs looking at.
But just the other day a relatively young chap (early 30's) who was perhaps sitting in the worst seat right down the back of a 777 next to the galley and could probably hear our crews conversations (nothing rude...just humourous stuff and putting the world to right...its good team building chatting to your crew on a long flight and a good sign of a good bunch of crew) got off the plane and as he passed me at doors three he shook my hand and said thanks for a great flight and "you guys are the reason I wont fly anyone else"!!!! He continued to do this at door 2 and to the CSD, it was at this point she noticed he was a Goldcard holder despite it not showing on the PIL...
So at the end of the day I feel yes, we do have our faults, and yes we do have crew who do tarnish the reputation for everyone else but you need to remember that for such a large airline you are bound to have a few who slipped through the net. But I also feel that everyone loves to hate the big guy, regardless of their experiences of the company. I personally love BA moreso than the 3 other flag carriers Iv worked for and I wont be leaving here in a hurry!
Last edited by apaddyinuk; 27th Jul 2005 at 02:11.
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I think any large airline is going to be inconsistant to be honest. I used to work for BMA and with a base of 50 people when I started at LHR it was far easy to manage those numbers and mould people into a particular way of working.
Take a workforce of 12,000 cabin crew and you get problems.
I am a purser on WW LHR at BA and the amount of time crew ask me how I would like the service done never ceases to amaze me.
I always reply "to standard please" which gets me a few raised eyebrows. Far easier if we all sing of the same hymn sheet.
As much as BA gets "bashed" they still receive 1000's of interested applicants wanting to join the airline every week!
Take a workforce of 12,000 cabin crew and you get problems.
I am a purser on WW LHR at BA and the amount of time crew ask me how I would like the service done never ceases to amaze me.
I always reply "to standard please" which gets me a few raised eyebrows. Far easier if we all sing of the same hymn sheet.
As much as BA gets "bashed" they still receive 1000's of interested applicants wanting to join the airline every week!
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As pax and flying a couple of long flights a year I can say that BA staff do their best uder sometimes difficult circumstances.
As a steerage passenger I have no complaints, you pay for what you get no point in being rude to the staff, and I've always found that a stroll back to the galley results in a smile and a laugh.
I know I'm a first time poster and that you think it's a plant but it isn't, My wife is due back from Sidney on Friday morning with BA and had a great trip over.
As for the "ahem" eldely miserably stewardess on our flight to Mexico earlier this year I hope she took my advice and her career might lie in baggage handling.
Just my view as a pax (hope I'm using the right terms)
All the best
As a steerage passenger I have no complaints, you pay for what you get no point in being rude to the staff, and I've always found that a stroll back to the galley results in a smile and a laugh.
I know I'm a first time poster and that you think it's a plant but it isn't, My wife is due back from Sidney on Friday morning with BA and had a great trip over.
As for the "ahem" eldely miserably stewardess on our flight to Mexico earlier this year I hope she took my advice and her career might lie in baggage handling.
Just my view as a pax (hope I'm using the right terms)
All the best
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Working in the aviation business, I log around 150 separate sectors each year, both short-medium and long haul, almost all in C or J class and around 70% with BA.Agree totally with others who cite lack of consistency as a problem with BA today, especially long-haul it seems, but a lack of morale also seems to be an increasing factor again. Why is this, I wonder.
Often, if you do complain, the attitude very much seems to be 'I agree' but please fill in one of these pointless complaint forms because there is nothing we can do. Cabin crew can not be blamed for that policy, or for the fact that even if you resort to the dreaded form filling, at best you receive a standard computer letter back which seems to say 'we hear what you say but surveys tell us we are wonderful so your complaint is is an isolated case'.
Handling agents at overseas stations seem to be largely contracted out these days and rarely give a s**t about the BA brand - again not a single thing cabin crew can do about this.
Nor do they control the ever variable standard of catering ordered, the failure to load enough bread or predict correct food choice for passenger load, the ever-decreasing 'larder' on long-haul or the quite embarrassing lack of content in J-class wash bags, on even the longest long-haul sectors.
Despite all this, they do take the cr*p for the increasing number of passengers (myself included sometimes) who get just a little irritated by what appears to be the degradation of standards in the cabin of aircraft flying in the livery of one of the world's best airlines.
The bean counters in Waterside need to travel a little more perhaps and experience how other airlines are lifting their own standards to match or exceed BA in many areas. The flat bed seats are no longer enough - note how others are developing their own (Virgin quite superb new beds), intelligent IFE, internet access etc.
Note how Lufthansa and others really do offer a 'no-one in the middle seat' policy in short-haul C and recognise that little things like that will soon add up to create a problem if not checked.
I do not work for BA (although my ex wife did tx in with the BCal takeover many moons ago - has since left!) but do feel for crews who seem to get as frustrated by all this as many of the SLF who have posted on this thread do.
There are bad and good among all crews. BA may not always be the best, but the airline is certainly still up there among the best of them. It is tough for everyone in the aviation business these days, but constantly cutting back on the quality and standard of service will surely one day go too far. I hope the bean counters and process people at the holiday camp by Heathrow will eventually recognise this.
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Sorry for the late post (better late than never).
I'm a card carrying member of the SLF community and have flown on a fair few airlines in the past 10 years of travelling with my career.
Long haul trips usually to Asia, S. America, N. America, etc. Short haul trips from SNN or LHR to Europe. I must say, BA cabin crew have to be the most consistent, professional and courteous staff on ANY airline I have travelled on, bar none. I'm speaking from travelling in both Economy and Business (although mostly Economy these days, with shrinking budgets).
I love to travel BA and will always try my best (or beg/bribe/annoy the person organising) to use a BA option to my destination.
Keep up the great work girls and guys, you're a credit to the airline community and have often made a weary traveller feel at home, on his way home.
I'm a card carrying member of the SLF community and have flown on a fair few airlines in the past 10 years of travelling with my career.
Long haul trips usually to Asia, S. America, N. America, etc. Short haul trips from SNN or LHR to Europe. I must say, BA cabin crew have to be the most consistent, professional and courteous staff on ANY airline I have travelled on, bar none. I'm speaking from travelling in both Economy and Business (although mostly Economy these days, with shrinking budgets).
I love to travel BA and will always try my best (or beg/bribe/annoy the person organising) to use a BA option to my destination.
Keep up the great work girls and guys, you're a credit to the airline community and have often made a weary traveller feel at home, on his way home.
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Boarding a BA flight to return to the UK is usually a wonderful experience. Three weeks in Delhi makes BA's club cabin appear a comfortable oasis in which to sink for a few hours. The service is pretty standard (production line pap/Halal meat etc.) but the endless PA's - "I'd like to introduce Tracy who will be looking after you in the .... .... .... cabin" - are truly AWFUL. Often you encounter a Joyce Grenfel type who loves the mike and believes I have an interest in her position or very large (we're talking BA) on-board team. Just get me home in some form of discreet comfort and cut all the prattle.
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However in this day and age it is the bad travel experiences that always stay with us for far longer then the pleasant travel experiences.
I remember my most recent 'Bad' BA experience far clearer than my most enjoyable BA flight.
I have to admit that BA crews are normally very welcoming when you board and addressing you by your name on the boarding card instead of 'Sir' is always a nice touch. However I recently travelled on a LGW based 737 and when I got on the Crew didn't say anything and barely acknowledged my presence whilst I showed my boarding card whilst refusing to make eye contact when I said hello and when I left they just stared blankly into space when I walked past. Made me quite annoyed!!! Manners cost nothing! I am glad I don't have those crewmembers working alongside me in my company!
I agree with the PA's being overdone. I now cringe when we pull on to stand while one of the folks at the pointy end tries to sound very upbeat and pleased at arriving 10 mins ahead of schedule whilst fumbling around for the flight number for us to remember for our bags when there is just one baggage carrousel at the destination anyway. With moving maps on the BA Airbus fleet as well as the long haul fleet then a lengthy PA on the route is not needed. Joe Bloggs knows where he is and when he is going to get there! No need for the Flight Deck to give a lengthy brief.
One good/funny thing I saw once recently was a departure at dusk and the CSD turned off all the reading lights in the cabin so when it came to the demo then Mr Pin-Striped Suit with his FT couldn't read so he was 'forced' into watching the demo. Was very funny seeing all the businessmen reaching up to turn the overhead light on and nothing happened. Worked a treat!
I remember my most recent 'Bad' BA experience far clearer than my most enjoyable BA flight.
I have to admit that BA crews are normally very welcoming when you board and addressing you by your name on the boarding card instead of 'Sir' is always a nice touch. However I recently travelled on a LGW based 737 and when I got on the Crew didn't say anything and barely acknowledged my presence whilst I showed my boarding card whilst refusing to make eye contact when I said hello and when I left they just stared blankly into space when I walked past. Made me quite annoyed!!! Manners cost nothing! I am glad I don't have those crewmembers working alongside me in my company!
I agree with the PA's being overdone. I now cringe when we pull on to stand while one of the folks at the pointy end tries to sound very upbeat and pleased at arriving 10 mins ahead of schedule whilst fumbling around for the flight number for us to remember for our bags when there is just one baggage carrousel at the destination anyway. With moving maps on the BA Airbus fleet as well as the long haul fleet then a lengthy PA on the route is not needed. Joe Bloggs knows where he is and when he is going to get there! No need for the Flight Deck to give a lengthy brief.
One good/funny thing I saw once recently was a departure at dusk and the CSD turned off all the reading lights in the cabin so when it came to the demo then Mr Pin-Striped Suit with his FT couldn't read so he was 'forced' into watching the demo. Was very funny seeing all the businessmen reaching up to turn the overhead light on and nothing happened. Worked a treat!
Last edited by Mr R Sole; 22nd Aug 2005 at 22:10.
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I used to be BA crew. I really enjoyed it and met many dedicated and hard working individuals. What you can rarely escape in the UK however is an immature attitude that showing a positive attitude and interest in your work is "uncool". There was also very definitely a sad atmosphere of them and us in many aspects of the work. Pax versus crew, crew versus the office, long haul versus shorthaul, old contract versus new, the list could go on. I loved my job and liked and respected so many people I worked with, but ultimately I found it a depressing and negative workplace. I still fly BA and I like the homely atmosphere and feel very safe. I do think however that there are a minority, but depressingly vocal, group of staff at all levels of that airline who believe that the world owes them a living and that somehow they are doing their passengers and customers a favour by allowing them to use their airline.
What I really admire are the people working for BA who always come through and work so hard despite those issues I mentioned above.
What I really admire are the people working for BA who always come through and work so hard despite those issues I mentioned above.
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I am also amazed by a previous comment saying the Cabin Crew should be accountable to he Captain for the on-board service - we dont tell you how to fly - don't tell us how to push a cart!
Especially when for example the cabin crew complete a full meal service on a full 747 within 2 hrs 10 of take-off (even in First) and then are woken only an hour before landing during which a full breakfast service is meant to be provided.
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Bashing Cabin Crew Not Helpfull.
The work that cabin crew put in is alot.
As always on this board the nameless heros step forward to abuse and belittle aircrew. What a joke.
Cabin crew are there for your safety and comfort.
STOP the abuse.
As always on this board the nameless heros step forward to abuse and belittle aircrew. What a joke.
Cabin crew are there for your safety and comfort.
STOP the abuse.