Miscommunication btwn CC and Flight Deck....
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like in the above case, not really a big deal IMO.
I mean, I was just not sure if the cabin not being secure was a more common occurrence than I thought...
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Skysista,
SOPs improved again at qf with turbulence PA from flight deck.
CSM must acknowledge PA with flight deck.
If this occurs on approach/decent the CSM has an opportunity/obligation to advise the that the cabin isn't secure for landing and that we must be "released" to rectify prior to landing.
Cheers Jettlager
SOPs improved again at qf with turbulence PA from flight deck.
CSM must acknowledge PA with flight deck.
If this occurs on approach/decent the CSM has an opportunity/obligation to advise the that the cabin isn't secure for landing and that we must be "released" to rectify prior to landing.
Cheers Jettlager
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thanks for clarifying...
Flaps, that same thought had crossed my mind... usually when I fly I can tell when we are coming in (if not viusally then change in engine pitch and so forth....) but i agree sometimes you can just get 'caught out'!
Jettlager, thanks. I am guessing in this case it must have been pretty severe, as according to my friend once the crew had been told to sit down they did not come through the cabin again. Also she said it got quite rough she was actually a bit scared, nothing looked too unusual but as I mentioned some bags came out of the overheads, luckily the crew had been good in not allowing anything too heavy up there in the first place!!!
Was also not a very full flight, maybe this had something to do with it? (e.g. crew had just before seen pax were mostly belted in/asleep etc) so knew cabin was as good as they could get under circumstances...
as you say if there is a good enough reason... Obviously in that case the crew decided it would be more dangerous to walk thru the cabin than to secure it.....
Flaps, that same thought had crossed my mind... usually when I fly I can tell when we are coming in (if not viusally then change in engine pitch and so forth....) but i agree sometimes you can just get 'caught out'!
Jettlager, thanks. I am guessing in this case it must have been pretty severe, as according to my friend once the crew had been told to sit down they did not come through the cabin again. Also she said it got quite rough she was actually a bit scared, nothing looked too unusual but as I mentioned some bags came out of the overheads, luckily the crew had been good in not allowing anything too heavy up there in the first place!!!
Was also not a very full flight, maybe this had something to do with it? (e.g. crew had just before seen pax were mostly belted in/asleep etc) so knew cabin was as good as they could get under circumstances...
as you say if there is a good enough reason... Obviously in that case the crew decided it would be more dangerous to walk thru the cabin than to secure it.....
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Obviously in that case the crew decided it would be more dangerous to walk thru the cabin than to secure it.....
The incident most relevant here that I can really recall (other than BMI B734 Kegworth) is a QF B767 that landed with the crew standing... I will relate the story the best I can recall it, however if any QF crew are able to confirm/clarify it would be appreciated... (studied this in CRM a few years ago, but not seen it since!)
Upon boarding the a/c the CSM was advised by the flight crew that the seatbelt signs "ding" sound was inop, however the signs themselves were still working. This was important info, as the seatbelt signs were used at QF (as I am sure they are at most airlines) as a non-verbal method of communication with crew in regards to being seated for take-off/landing etc. The CSM however was unfortunately concentrating on an IFE problem and forgot to pass the information on to the crew. When time came for landing, the crew were still in the cabin collecting headsets on touchdown due to being unaware of how close landing was - because they had not heard the "double ding" and were not aware that it was inop... Anyone able to clarify details for me?
Forgive the rushed typing job - I am particularly jetlagged (just got in from Las Vegas after one of those flights) and am really not in the most coherent frames of mind!
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The "Airtours" incident at Manchester involving a 737 was actually "British Airtours", and not Airtours International (or MyTravel, as they are now known).
It was an incident in 1985 (I think), and a Boeing 737-200 operated by British Airways' charter division, British Airtours (designator KT - and who later bacme known as Caledonian Airways after BA's buy out of that brand) aborted take off from Ringway, due to a problem with one of the engines. The aircraft was bound for the Greek Island of Corfu, with 131 (?) passengers onboard.
The incident was considered landmark in many ways because it changed the way the world flies. Additional measures, such as modified seat fabric and construction and floor level lighting all arose as a result of the tragedy at Manchester.
Aitrours International never operated the Boeing 737 per say, unless wet leased for additional capacity.
It was an incident in 1985 (I think), and a Boeing 737-200 operated by British Airways' charter division, British Airtours (designator KT - and who later bacme known as Caledonian Airways after BA's buy out of that brand) aborted take off from Ringway, due to a problem with one of the engines. The aircraft was bound for the Greek Island of Corfu, with 131 (?) passengers onboard.
The incident was considered landmark in many ways because it changed the way the world flies. Additional measures, such as modified seat fabric and construction and floor level lighting all arose as a result of the tragedy at Manchester.
Aitrours International never operated the Boeing 737 per say, unless wet leased for additional capacity.
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thanks again for the posts.
Re: "Airtours", I should have specified "British", it was just me 'abbreviating' and assuming everyone would know what I meant! I forget there's so many airlines in UK/Europe
(Always been only 2-4 here in Oz )
Already those links mentioned have brought up interesting issues re: smoke hoods, emerg descent, cabin interiors, seating etc. Even though for this report I probably won't go into toooo much detail on those, I will definitely print and file this info for future use!!
Re: "Airtours", I should have specified "British", it was just me 'abbreviating' and assuming everyone would know what I meant! I forget there's so many airlines in UK/Europe
(Always been only 2-4 here in Oz
)Already those links mentioned have brought up interesting issues re: smoke hoods, emerg descent, cabin interiors, seating etc. Even though for this report I probably won't go into toooo much detail on those, I will definitely print and file this info for future use!!
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Just wondering, does anyone know where I might find "artist's impression" images of Kegworth and /or the ASA Brasilia incident?? Trying to find a picture that would give some idea of what someone looking out of the window would have seen.
Want to use it as a slide in the intro of my presentation, to make it a bit more 'real' - trying to get the attention of (mostly) teenagers here. Nothing overly dramatised, just a reasonable "guess". Screen cap from that Air Crash episode would be good... or perhaps of the Air Canada lav fire... i.e., what it would have looked like inside the plane?
Want to use it as a slide in the intro of my presentation, to make it a bit more 'real' - trying to get the attention of (mostly) teenagers here. Nothing overly dramatised, just a reasonable "guess". Screen cap from that Air Crash episode would be good... or perhaps of the Air Canada lav fire... i.e., what it would have looked like inside the plane?
