Death of a Cabin Attendant in ORY
LUXury is a 13,000 ft runway
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I would suggest that if they are not dismissed then the company has a serious issue with H & S
TDL, in the real world, the unions are very keen to see H & S standards upheld by the company, and in the real world they normally support management action when it is in relation to H & S because not to do so would be seen to condone poor H & S practices. Of course they will ensure that the management are not using it as an excuse to 'get rid of' a trouble maker.
If the management and unions won't stand up for H & S then this is a serious failing.
FYI I have live in the real world, and ground staff have been dismissed for such actions.
If the management and unions won't stand up for H & S then this is a serious failing.
FYI I have live in the real world, and ground staff have been dismissed for such actions.
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The poor girl 
- what a very sad accident , especially with 2 young kids and for her husband ..
My thoughts have been with them.
Fokker me, your post astounds me - i cannot believe you were subjected to such blatant discriminatory abuse from those staff - they deserve the sack - i hope you feel strong enough to follow it up - thats dreadful.
The fact that they then left a 2ft gap is in addition , really bad - how the hell do they keep their jobs with that behaviour?
If that happened at LHR, they'd be marched off the apron . Disgusting behaviour.
I hope your airline has a zero tolerance policy on intimidation and harassment.
- what a very sad accident , especially with 2 young kids and for her husband ..My thoughts have been with them.
Fokker me, your post astounds me - i cannot believe you were subjected to such blatant discriminatory abuse from those staff - they deserve the sack - i hope you feel strong enough to follow it up - thats dreadful.
The fact that they then left a 2ft gap is in addition , really bad - how the hell do they keep their jobs with that behaviour?
If that happened at LHR, they'd be marched off the apron . Disgusting behaviour.
I hope your airline has a zero tolerance policy on intimidation and harassment.
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What a sad accident. 
Condolences for her family, friends, and co-workers.
At the moment, we are studying Apron Safety Management Policies as part of our course. I think I will print this thread and hopefully show some of the students who think safety is a joke, just how serious things can get out there. What a shocking lack of sense some people show (the rampers previosuly mentioned abusing staff, NOT the CC concerned)
RIP
Sky
Condolences for her family, friends, and co-workers.
At the moment, we are studying Apron Safety Management Policies as part of our course. I think I will print this thread and hopefully show some of the students who think safety is a joke, just how serious things can get out there. What a shocking lack of sense some people show (the rampers previosuly mentioned abusing staff, NOT the CC concerned)
RIP
Sky
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I was operating out of ory yesterday and when the steps were put next to the L1 door there was a gap big enough for a person to get thru at the side of the handrail.
they just dont learn do they?
hope the same tragedy doesnt reoccur.
they just dont learn do they?
hope the same tragedy doesnt reoccur.
LUXury is a 13,000 ft runway
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surely not
yep, responsible unions would do as you are suggesting - and many (actually, I think, most) do!
There is, however, the "real world" of some workplaces where there is no such thing as a responsible union. In the UK, an example would probably be London Underground. And in France, it's most public service unions. Their members are never at fault for anything, and there is many a reason to go on strike. (This behaviour has led to the erroneous impression, mainly in anglo-saxon countries, that the French are always on strike. They are not - however, in some high profile industries, controlled by the state or state-owned companies, strikes are significantly more frequent than elsewhere -anywhere- in France.)
And things usually get worse when a "professional election" is coming up, a "professional election" being where employees in France vote for who, or which union, will represent them on their employer's "comité d'entreprise". The various unions will of course try to impress their "electorate" by showing off their muscle in the run-up to the vote.
And guess what's coming up in France? Mais oui, it'll soon be time to vote for the comités d'entreprise. Which is why the cabin attendant's union and two pilot unions made a joint statement today, whereby they were "shocked at how [the death of the unfortunate CA] was being used in the electoral campaign", and they also said that the accident "should not beused as grounds for industrial action".
(BTW I'm not saying that anyone should be, or shoud not be, dismissed - I am in no position to comment on the rights or wrongs of that particular and deplorable accident . There are procedures in place to deal with that issue. But given the seriousness of the alleged misconduct, which has led to very grave consequences, I am inclined to consider (a) temporary suspension at full pay pending investigations a reasonable decision, and (b) wildcat strikes in retailation tantamount to bullying.)
If you read French, there's an article in Libération.
yep, responsible unions would do as you are suggesting - and many (actually, I think, most) do!
There is, however, the "real world" of some workplaces where there is no such thing as a responsible union. In the UK, an example would probably be London Underground. And in France, it's most public service unions. Their members are never at fault for anything, and there is many a reason to go on strike. (This behaviour has led to the erroneous impression, mainly in anglo-saxon countries, that the French are always on strike. They are not - however, in some high profile industries, controlled by the state or state-owned companies, strikes are significantly more frequent than elsewhere -anywhere- in France.)
And things usually get worse when a "professional election" is coming up, a "professional election" being where employees in France vote for who, or which union, will represent them on their employer's "comité d'entreprise". The various unions will of course try to impress their "electorate" by showing off their muscle in the run-up to the vote.
And guess what's coming up in France? Mais oui, it'll soon be time to vote for the comités d'entreprise. Which is why the cabin attendant's union and two pilot unions made a joint statement today, whereby they were "shocked at how [the death of the unfortunate CA] was being used in the electoral campaign", and they also said that the accident "should not beused as grounds for industrial action".
(BTW I'm not saying that anyone should be, or shoud not be, dismissed - I am in no position to comment on the rights or wrongs of that particular and deplorable accident
. There are procedures in place to deal with that issue. But given the seriousness of the alleged misconduct, which has led to very grave consequences, I am inclined to consider (a) temporary suspension at full pay pending investigations a reasonable decision, and (b) wildcat strikes in retailation tantamount to bullying.)If you read French, there's an article in Libération.
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This is awful deepest sympathies to that young Girl's family.
I have seen happen a couple of times heard about it lots, can't believe smeone is dead due to slack practice.
I recall seeing the FA clinging on for dear life. luckily the operator heard her screams and stopped before she fell but she was left dangling fro a few seconds.
I am amazed that there does not seem to be a procedure for checking if the steps are empty before disengaging them.
This is such an easy problem to fix, we must learn from this tragedy.
I have seen happen a couple of times heard about it lots, can't believe smeone is dead due to slack practice.
I recall seeing the FA clinging on for dear life. luckily the operator heard her screams and stopped before she fell but she was left dangling fro a few seconds.
I am amazed that there does not seem to be a procedure for checking if the steps are empty before disengaging them.
This is such an easy problem to fix, we must learn from this tragedy.
Last edited by A10 Thundybox; 26th Feb 2005 at 02:22.
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If it is at all possible to say that something good has come from this tragic accident, it would be that already easyjet (as just one example) have issued an emergency safety bulletin to all it's handling agents with the details of this incident and examples of a number of others specific to their own operation, requiring all handling agents to ensure with immediate effect that processes are in place to prevent this happening again.
Clearly it is a more common problem than it ought to be, but one of the most surprising things from reading this bulletin was that in none of the instances mentioned where easyjet a/c had steps removed putting crew and pax in danger, was any safety incident report filed (presumably referring to reports from the ramp team). Some of these guys are very quick to bleat about their own safety, but clearly it's not an issue if it affects soembody else.
Clearly it is a more common problem than it ought to be, but one of the most surprising things from reading this bulletin was that in none of the instances mentioned where easyjet a/c had steps removed putting crew and pax in danger, was any safety incident report filed (presumably referring to reports from the ramp team). Some of these guys are very quick to bleat about their own safety, but clearly it's not an issue if it affects soembody else.
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Dreadful news. Heartfelt sympathies to her family.
So many uneccesary accidents, incidents and tragedies happen every year. These can be prevented in most cases.
BA recently reiterated their policy. Which is that cabin crew may not open, crack or close doors without steps, platform or equipment in place (even for cleaners to get bins out).
Crew may not place feet on the exterior platform whilst opening/ closing doors, both feet must stay in aircraft.
Once an external person has knocked on the door, crew must count to 10 before opening door with caution.
Unfortunately, although rules and guidelines are in place, it won't stop people doing otherwise to make life easier for themselves.
So many uneccesary accidents, incidents and tragedies happen every year. These can be prevented in most cases.
BA recently reiterated their policy. Which is that cabin crew may not open, crack or close doors without steps, platform or equipment in place (even for cleaners to get bins out).
Crew may not place feet on the exterior platform whilst opening/ closing doors, both feet must stay in aircraft.
Once an external person has knocked on the door, crew must count to 10 before opening door with caution.
Unfortunately, although rules and guidelines are in place, it won't stop people doing otherwise to make life easier for themselves.
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My sincerest condolences to the family also... I, like many other current and former cabin crew, have seen instances where doors have been left with no warning barrier, open without steps. I myself was stood on some steps once when they were taken away after I'd gone out to get some sun. Of course, in spite of a CSR being filed, this all seemed quite funny at the time. It's scary to think of the consequences of what can happen.
Another point to note, many ground crew also forget that after placing steps against an aircraft, the a/c level will often rise significantly after passengers have left the aircraft. This can often result in a rather large step that boarding passengers have to climb up to board the aircraft. I had a situation where an elderly man boarded and shortly afterwards we spotted a trail of blood leading back from D2L to his seat in row 20. Upon investigation, we found a gap of about 2 feet between the top of the steps and the door ledge. He'd bashed his leg climbing in and burst some varicose veins - he'd not wanted to create a problem so just ignored it, we were subsequently delayed after the crew insisted than an ambulance be called to take him to hospital due to the severity of the wound and his age.
To those who think flying is unsafe, it's often more unsafe than you might think just staying on the ground. Everybody needs to be alert to what's going on, in the words of the great CAA 'Safety is no accident'........
Safe flying all,
FJ2k
Another point to note, many ground crew also forget that after placing steps against an aircraft, the a/c level will often rise significantly after passengers have left the aircraft. This can often result in a rather large step that boarding passengers have to climb up to board the aircraft. I had a situation where an elderly man boarded and shortly afterwards we spotted a trail of blood leading back from D2L to his seat in row 20. Upon investigation, we found a gap of about 2 feet between the top of the steps and the door ledge. He'd bashed his leg climbing in and burst some varicose veins - he'd not wanted to create a problem so just ignored it, we were subsequently delayed after the crew insisted than an ambulance be called to take him to hospital due to the severity of the wound and his age.
To those who think flying is unsafe, it's often more unsafe than you might think just staying on the ground. Everybody needs to be alert to what's going on, in the words of the great CAA 'Safety is no accident'........
Safe flying all,
FJ2k
fastjet2k, the point you make about a/c height differential with the steps as pax get on and off is a good one. Unfortunately I cannot see a ready fix for this as the steps do not have a means of automatically shadowing the fuselage in it's rise and falls. When the a/c comes onto stand it will be heavier, and it is necessary to fit the steps safely under the door and level with , or just a smidgeon below, the floor height. They cannot be higher because on most aircraft this would prevent the door being opened! Likewise for boarding they cannot be raised to door level because the fuselage will drop as the aircraft fills up, and if the steps were up higher they would snag the door again.
I guess it is something which pax have to made verbally aware of.
I guess it is something which pax have to made verbally aware of.
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Very sad news all my thoughts to her family and colleagues.
I don't understand, aren't you supposed to communicate with the in-charge before removing the stairs and make sure everyone is on board?
I heard on the french news that the union is requesting an extra rampie to guide the driver and make sure no one is on the stairs.
I guess we will have to use extra caution with those stairs.
all my thoughts to her family and colleagues.I don't understand, aren't you supposed to communicate with the in-charge before removing the stairs and make sure everyone is on board?
I heard on the french news that the union is requesting an extra rampie to guide the driver and make sure no one is on the stairs.
I guess we will have to use extra caution with those stairs.
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Surely Not,
You're absolutely correct in what you say - it would not be particularly cost effective to have steps operating in the same way as fixed airbridges and shadowing the rise and fall of the aircraft... however, in the company I worked for as Cabin Crew, it became policy that if there was a significant gap between the steps and the doorsill, to insist that (within reason) they were raised to meet the door once again. Most of the time this was fine, on the odd occasion it was going to prove impossible and would delay the aircraft by an unacceptable period of time by waiting to have the steps raised.
It was agreed that under these circumstances, so long as passengers could board safely once aware of the step, we would continue with boarding. However, we would normally have a crewmember outside on the steps to monitor and assist passengers as they boarded. To people who have not been Cabin Crew, you may imagine that passengers would notice a fairly obvious step and would deal with it in the correct manner! However, this is not always the case - as cabin crew all you can do is to minimise the danger so that should anything actually go wrong, you have done your very best to uphold all health and safety standards. At the least, if we were unable to get the steps moved, we would still complete a CSR which may hopefully limit the number of times it would happen at that airport in the future.
Once in a while things do go wrong which we can learn from - however, (and I don't know the facts in this tragedy so I'm not suggesting this is what happened) sometimes familiarity takes over and people get hurt or worse. This is why we have safety standards, they are there because somebody has been injured or killed before making the same mistake. Ignore them not only at your own peril, but at the peril of everybody in the large team that looks after a flight.
FJ2k
You're absolutely correct in what you say - it would not be particularly cost effective to have steps operating in the same way as fixed airbridges and shadowing the rise and fall of the aircraft... however, in the company I worked for as Cabin Crew, it became policy that if there was a significant gap between the steps and the doorsill, to insist that (within reason) they were raised to meet the door once again. Most of the time this was fine, on the odd occasion it was going to prove impossible and would delay the aircraft by an unacceptable period of time by waiting to have the steps raised.
It was agreed that under these circumstances, so long as passengers could board safely once aware of the step, we would continue with boarding. However, we would normally have a crewmember outside on the steps to monitor and assist passengers as they boarded. To people who have not been Cabin Crew, you may imagine that passengers would notice a fairly obvious step and would deal with it in the correct manner! However, this is not always the case - as cabin crew all you can do is to minimise the danger so that should anything actually go wrong, you have done your very best to uphold all health and safety standards. At the least, if we were unable to get the steps moved, we would still complete a CSR which may hopefully limit the number of times it would happen at that airport in the future.
Once in a while things do go wrong which we can learn from - however, (and I don't know the facts in this tragedy so I'm not suggesting this is what happened) sometimes familiarity takes over and people get hurt or worse. This is why we have safety standards, they are there because somebody has been injured or killed before making the same mistake. Ignore them not only at your own peril, but at the peril of everybody in the large team that looks after a flight.
FJ2k
