NEW Australian Airlines (AO) EBA 2005 (merged)
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So there will be nothing stopping the company replacing all of you with overseas based crew, if they choose to do so?
Have you received written legal advice about your position on workplace agreements? With something as serious as this I wouldnt be taking anything verbal or information on FAAA letterhead I would be asking to view the legal opinion from an Industrial lawyer before just taking their word on this vital issue.
Have you received written legal advice about your position on workplace agreements? With something as serious as this I wouldnt be taking anything verbal or information on FAAA letterhead I would be asking to view the legal opinion from an Industrial lawyer before just taking their word on this vital issue.
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Cabin scrag...I was wondering when a faaa rep would turn up!
Tell me when the QF EBA negotiations were on last year why was all the fire and brimstone coming from the 3 stooges and where has it gone?
Why did the faaa spend a huge and I mean huge amount of money on the billboard campaign?
I forgot that we had a huge win with the breastfeeding room on QCC1!!!!! that really got QF upset for about 30 seconds.
To all those with AO ,do as Galley Had suggests and get seperate legal advice instead of listening to what the faaa say's
If you accept a limitless cap for overseas bases your days are numbered,you may as well start looking for a job now
VOTE NO.........
Tell me when the QF EBA negotiations were on last year why was all the fire and brimstone coming from the 3 stooges and where has it gone?
Why did the faaa spend a huge and I mean huge amount of money on the billboard campaign?
I forgot that we had a huge win with the breastfeeding room on QCC1!!!!! that really got QF upset for about 30 seconds.
To all those with AO ,do as Galley Had suggests and get seperate legal advice instead of listening to what the faaa say's
If you accept a limitless cap for overseas bases your days are numbered,you may as well start looking for a job now
VOTE NO.........
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Lower Lobe, I am not an FAAA rep, just a crew member telling it how it is. We are snookered in a corner and dont have much option. Management is in a strong position and we have already voted to accept the 4 key points, one of which is no cap on overseas bases ,. The only remaining stage is to vote yes or no to the EBA in its entirety not individual issues. With the knowledge that we can all be replaced very rapidly industrial action is useless and after 5 months of negotiations without success on changing the key points nothing will change now. We just have to accept the fact of our situation and move on. Just as QF crew can do nothing to stop your overseas bases and your crew number in the thousands, what hope do a few hundred AO crew have ?
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Cabin Scrag
You are either a faaa rep or one of their lemmings who will follow them and everyone else who cannot think for themselves over the cliffs edge.
Are you going to continually spout the same drivel in every post or do something about your eba.
It was the faaa who recommended that we vote yes in our ballots and we have paid for it ever since.
As far as my information is the company cannot make you go onto personal workplace contracts.
Get some independent advice instead of just following the faaa lead
You are either a faaa rep or one of their lemmings who will follow them and everyone else who cannot think for themselves over the cliffs edge.
Are you going to continually spout the same drivel in every post or do something about your eba.
It was the faaa who recommended that we vote yes in our ballots and we have paid for it ever since.
As far as my information is the company cannot make you go onto personal workplace contracts.
Get some independent advice instead of just following the faaa lead
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Lower Lobe,
You are wrong again ! I am not an FAAA rep or one of their lemmings as you put it.
We already did seek independant advice on being placed on individual or collective agreements and found the company can do so if an enterprise agreement cannot be reached so you are wrong yet again.
As a QF LH crew member we fully realize you are telling us to vote no to the EBA because you dont want to see AO expand but we have news for you, the 4 key points including overseas bases are already voted on and its only the EBA document that has to be voted on. If we vote yes we can look forward to expansion and we can see your real motives. Our cost base is about 30% less than QF and we look forward to developing new routes, something that wont happen if we vote no, so why shouldnt we vote yes ! . So there is some more drivel for you (as you put it) to chew over.
You are wrong again ! I am not an FAAA rep or one of their lemmings as you put it.
We already did seek independant advice on being placed on individual or collective agreements and found the company can do so if an enterprise agreement cannot be reached so you are wrong yet again.
As a QF LH crew member we fully realize you are telling us to vote no to the EBA because you dont want to see AO expand but we have news for you, the 4 key points including overseas bases are already voted on and its only the EBA document that has to be voted on. If we vote yes we can look forward to expansion and we can see your real motives. Our cost base is about 30% less than QF and we look forward to developing new routes, something that wont happen if we vote no, so why shouldnt we vote yes ! . So there is some more drivel for you (as you put it) to chew over.
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Well if you are not a faaa rep or one of their lemmings then you are definitely one those that think only of themselves and to hell with anyone else.
As Biscuit chucker has said AO probably will expand but you will not be doing any of their flying because it will be the lowercost overseas based crew.
It is people like you that are selling out other Australians ,I hope you are happy with yourself Judas
"We fully realise that you are telling us to vote NO"
"WE".... so you speak for all AO crew....Definitely sounds like a faaa rep to me ...or someone with their own agenda
As Biscuit chucker has said AO probably will expand but you will not be doing any of their flying because it will be the lowercost overseas based crew.
It is people like you that are selling out other Australians ,I hope you are happy with yourself Judas
"We fully realise that you are telling us to vote NO"
"WE".... so you speak for all AO crew....Definitely sounds like a faaa rep to me ...or someone with their own agenda
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Lower lobe,
Your wrong again !!!!!
I don't have any adgenda, I just reply to your accusations which I note are quite bitter here and in other topics. It is not the cabin crew who make decisions about what flying goes where it is the QF board, its way beyond me and you. If AO doesnt produce the cost efficency it was designed for the QF board can move its flying to Jetstar or create a new division with even lower pay and conditions,and there are thousands of people who would accept the job at half the pay and conditions they are at now, so what are AO crew supposed to do ? Destroy our careers to make you happy??? I am just as powerless as you to stop the changes that will occur. You telling us to vote no would not help anyone and regardless of what happens QF will find or create a division that delivers it the efficencies it wants. Its just reality.
Your wrong again !!!!!
I don't have any adgenda, I just reply to your accusations which I note are quite bitter here and in other topics. It is not the cabin crew who make decisions about what flying goes where it is the QF board, its way beyond me and you. If AO doesnt produce the cost efficency it was designed for the QF board can move its flying to Jetstar or create a new division with even lower pay and conditions,and there are thousands of people who would accept the job at half the pay and conditions they are at now, so what are AO crew supposed to do ? Destroy our careers to make you happy??? I am just as powerless as you to stop the changes that will occur. You telling us to vote no would not help anyone and regardless of what happens QF will find or create a division that delivers it the efficencies it wants. Its just reality.
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It is not reality,it is what the management and othjers want!
Look what happened last year when the issue of the strikebreakers was in the news.
QF was in damage control after every news article,they hated it because they are concerned with public image and perception.
That is why they spend millions of dollars on the campaign "the spirit of Australia" and "I still call Australia home"
The faaa have sold us down the tube and if they do not change their stance quickly they will have anextra=ordinary meeting called soon to explain hteir inaction.
I am not bitter just frustrated with people who take the easy way out for the short term.We are having our flying decimated by our overseas bases and I cannot believe that anyone at AO would vote yes after witnessing that.
I amnot saying to just say no to the company but to offer an alternative set of preconditions to go to arbitration .If you agreed to the other 3 points and compromised the other and suggested a finite number on the cap,say 250 then arbitration will ask management why they should not go along with that.
Be proactive not submissive,because if they get a limitless cap australian jobs at AO are numbered
Run a publicity campaign ,I\'m sure the Cairns Post would love to do a story on the loss of Australian jobs to foreign crew based offshore!
Then other National papers would pick up on it and AO and QF will be having to go on the defensive and then you suggest that you are prepared to offer a certain cap instead of a limitless one.
The faaa will not understand or are unwilling for a number of reasons to have a media campaign,so you can.
Look what happened last year when the issue of the strikebreakers was in the news.
QF was in damage control after every news article,they hated it because they are concerned with public image and perception.
That is why they spend millions of dollars on the campaign "the spirit of Australia" and "I still call Australia home"
The faaa have sold us down the tube and if they do not change their stance quickly they will have anextra=ordinary meeting called soon to explain hteir inaction.
I am not bitter just frustrated with people who take the easy way out for the short term.We are having our flying decimated by our overseas bases and I cannot believe that anyone at AO would vote yes after witnessing that.
I amnot saying to just say no to the company but to offer an alternative set of preconditions to go to arbitration .If you agreed to the other 3 points and compromised the other and suggested a finite number on the cap,say 250 then arbitration will ask management why they should not go along with that.
Be proactive not submissive,because if they get a limitless cap australian jobs at AO are numbered
Run a publicity campaign ,I\'m sure the Cairns Post would love to do a story on the loss of Australian jobs to foreign crew based offshore!
Then other National papers would pick up on it and AO and QF will be having to go on the defensive and then you suggest that you are prepared to offer a certain cap instead of a limitless one.
The faaa will not understand or are unwilling for a number of reasons to have a media campaign,so you can.
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Lower Lobe,
As part of the EBA negotiations an attempt was made to cap the foreign bases but the company refused to move on that issue. As explained earlier the company has 4 key issues that it wont negotiate and that is one of them. Knocking back the entire EBA now would only result in us ending up on individual or collective contracts and the foreign bases would still be there, so there is no point. We too are faced with either giving cost efficencies or watching our flying go elsewhere. I understand your frustration, and we would all love no foreign bases, more money, more time off, longer layovers etc but sadly that was the past and is no longer sustainable. With QF divided into divisions that can compete for its flying the outcomes are obvious.
As part of the EBA negotiations an attempt was made to cap the foreign bases but the company refused to move on that issue. As explained earlier the company has 4 key issues that it wont negotiate and that is one of them. Knocking back the entire EBA now would only result in us ending up on individual or collective contracts and the foreign bases would still be there, so there is no point. We too are faced with either giving cost efficencies or watching our flying go elsewhere. I understand your frustration, and we would all love no foreign bases, more money, more time off, longer layovers etc but sadly that was the past and is no longer sustainable. With QF divided into divisions that can compete for its flying the outcomes are obvious.
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Cabin Scrag,
Your missing my point.
(1) Who told you that the company refused to move on that issue and that they would not listen to any other ideas...The faaa
(2) As I said before why don't you have a media campaign..
When the faaa was on the 7.30 report last year ,all of a sudden the company relented because of a large media coverage of what they were up to..did the faaa initiate that..NO.,it was the media because it is a sensitive issue and a good story.
Apparently,They were like a bunch of headless chooks that night at QCCC after the ABC's 7.30 report not only of the story about strikebreakers but also of how poorly the strikebreakers were being treated and not to mention the bonuses that the board were being paid.
I did not say to ask for more time off and longer slips but to cap the number of offshore crew which basically put Australians out of work...that is what the medias would love
If you want to take the easy way out for at least the short term that is your choice.If it comes in,the Australian based crew in AO have about 3 to 5 years before your jobs and of future Australians are history
I started work in another era,this is the "what is in it for me"era and I am glad I started work when I did .
I am in my last years of flying so personally it does not really affect me if AO take the FRA run and others but I , like a lot of other people have children who will be looking for jobs in this country and if it is left to the current management and faaa/other unions they will all be on the dole as soon as they leave school..That is my point.....
Your missing my point.
(1) Who told you that the company refused to move on that issue and that they would not listen to any other ideas...The faaa
(2) As I said before why don't you have a media campaign..
When the faaa was on the 7.30 report last year ,all of a sudden the company relented because of a large media coverage of what they were up to..did the faaa initiate that..NO.,it was the media because it is a sensitive issue and a good story.
Apparently,They were like a bunch of headless chooks that night at QCCC after the ABC's 7.30 report not only of the story about strikebreakers but also of how poorly the strikebreakers were being treated and not to mention the bonuses that the board were being paid.
I did not say to ask for more time off and longer slips but to cap the number of offshore crew which basically put Australians out of work...that is what the medias would love
If you want to take the easy way out for at least the short term that is your choice.If it comes in,the Australian based crew in AO have about 3 to 5 years before your jobs and of future Australians are history
I started work in another era,this is the "what is in it for me"era and I am glad I started work when I did .
I am in my last years of flying so personally it does not really affect me if AO take the FRA run and others but I , like a lot of other people have children who will be looking for jobs in this country and if it is left to the current management and faaa/other unions they will all be on the dole as soon as they leave school..That is my point.....
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Your missing my point.
(1) Who told you that the company refused to move on that issue and that they would not listen to any other ideas...The faaa
(2) As I said before why don't you have a media campaign..
(1) Both the Company and the FAAA stated that the company will not move on its position on the 4 key points. Its a fact.
(2) There already were media reports in local newspapers during our EBA negotiations regarding overseas bases and strike breakers. It made no difference.
Finding full time work is becoming harder and harder not just in Australia but overseas also. Friends of mine working overseas as cabin crew face even worse problems with their conditions of employment. I agree with you that future employment and condtions for future generations in Austrailia and overseas will be challenging if you look at the trends that are occuring.
(1) Who told you that the company refused to move on that issue and that they would not listen to any other ideas...The faaa
(2) As I said before why don't you have a media campaign..
(1) Both the Company and the FAAA stated that the company will not move on its position on the 4 key points. Its a fact.
(2) There already were media reports in local newspapers during our EBA negotiations regarding overseas bases and strike breakers. It made no difference.
Finding full time work is becoming harder and harder not just in Australia but overseas also. Friends of mine working overseas as cabin crew face even worse problems with their conditions of employment. I agree with you that future employment and condtions for future generations in Austrailia and overseas will be challenging if you look at the trends that are occuring.
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Do you think that there might just be some agenda with both the company and the faaa? Of course the company told you that,they want you to believe that you have no ther choice!
But why is the faaa so interested in going along with them,some inducement perhaps!
Do always just roll over and cop it when others want to enforce their will on you?
You are either a faaa rep or completley brainwashed ,either way with more crew like you all Australian jobs are in jeopardy and the management is laughing all the way to the bank with their bonuses
I don't believe that the Australian public if alerted to the fact that Australian jobs are in danger would do nothing but if we had your attitiude about 60 years ago we would all be speaking either German or Japanese and eating rice 3 times a day.
It is an excercise in futility in trying to discuss this with you any further,I hope you can find alternate employment in Cairns when it all caves in
But why is the faaa so interested in going along with them,some inducement perhaps!
Do always just roll over and cop it when others want to enforce their will on you?
You are either a faaa rep or completley brainwashed ,either way with more crew like you all Australian jobs are in jeopardy and the management is laughing all the way to the bank with their bonuses
I don't believe that the Australian public if alerted to the fact that Australian jobs are in danger would do nothing but if we had your attitiude about 60 years ago we would all be speaking either German or Japanese and eating rice 3 times a day.
It is an excercise in futility in trying to discuss this with you any further,I hope you can find alternate employment in Cairns when it all caves in
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running scared
I have been reading this forum for quite a while now and finally decidedc to register so I can post.
Lower lobe there is no use continuing on.
They are running scared.
I sort of understand the mentalaty at AO, they are made up of ex AN crew, they are very easy to scare, and the rest of them are wannaby QF flight attendants, hoping that when AO comes crashing down they will be able to get a job at QF long or short haul.
Just look at the voting 7 out of 10 of them are willing to accept UNLIMITED crew bases.
The FAAA in this case cannot be blamed entirely, they had to follow what the members voted on, what else can they do!.
I really really feel sorry for the AO crew as they seem quite dedicated, what a shame their jobs will be going to someone in the phillipines or malaysia, they can then put them 2 to a room. no allowances.. etc etc etc actually when I think about it, AO will move to AKL as well, third world labour conditions and they speak an passable form of english.
It could have been a good australian leisure airline, what a shame.................
Lower lobe there is no use continuing on.
They are running scared.
I sort of understand the mentalaty at AO, they are made up of ex AN crew, they are very easy to scare, and the rest of them are wannaby QF flight attendants, hoping that when AO comes crashing down they will be able to get a job at QF long or short haul.
Just look at the voting 7 out of 10 of them are willing to accept UNLIMITED crew bases.
The FAAA in this case cannot be blamed entirely, they had to follow what the members voted on, what else can they do!.
I really really feel sorry for the AO crew as they seem quite dedicated, what a shame their jobs will be going to someone in the phillipines or malaysia, they can then put them 2 to a room. no allowances.. etc etc etc actually when I think about it, AO will move to AKL as well, third world labour conditions and they speak an passable form of english.
It could have been a good australian leisure airline, what a shame.................
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Lower Lobe, you are right on one thing, discussing it further is an excercise in futility and saying that the FAAA are aligned with Management is ridiculous.
The only thing that will prove who was right is time.
Nothing changes the fact that the QF board will assign flying to divisions that can operate them most effectively. Why else were overseas bases and AO and JQ established?
Face reality.
The only thing that will prove who was right is time.
Nothing changes the fact that the QF board will assign flying to divisions that can operate them most effectively. Why else were overseas bases and AO and JQ established?
Face reality.
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The only reality is that you are a loser and either want to be or are foolish enough not to realise it!!
That French Mineral Water,what does it spell backwards?????
That French Mineral Water,what does it spell backwards?????
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I predict Geoff will resign in the near future and Rod Eddington will take control of the QF group. God help us all because he slaughters airlines and those of us who dont perform will be axed. Trust me, I've worked under this man before. I hope I'm wrong but he has just left his position at BA, which airline is he targeting now?
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I have heard that Darth Dixon is here until 2007 but I suppose that if the amount is right he would leave earlier.
Is it true that RE was with AN and then ANZ ?
If he was then with that track record he is a moral to come to QF,He didn't do that well at BA so it probablt true then!
Is it true that RE was with AN and then ANZ ?
If he was then with that track record he is a moral to come to QF,He didn't do that well at BA so it probablt true then!
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Lowerlobe,
It would seem that you asking us to vote no so you can continue to enjoy your own flying would qualify you as "definatley one of those that only think of themselves and to hell with anyone else".........
Tow-Truck,
I can't even think of anything to respond to your post with, other than after laughing uncontrollably, that you have no idea what you are talking about re you comment...
Ex Ansett crew are only a percentage that make up the cabin crew at AO. Crew come from many other airlines and quite a few too not from an airline background. And hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think AO will be the airline that comes crashing down.....have you not been following the QF LH threads and the concerns that are being expressed there?
Good night,
RaverFlaver
you are definitely one those that think only of themselves and to hell with anyone else
Tow-Truck,
I can't even think of anything to respond to your post with, other than after laughing uncontrollably, that you have no idea what you are talking about re you comment...
I sort of understand the mentalaty at AO, they are made up of ex AN crew, they are very easy to scare, and the rest of them are wannaby QF flight attendants, hoping that when AO comes crashing down they will be able to get a job at QF long or short haul.
Good night,
RaverFlaver
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miisleadfoot,
Rod Eddington is on record as saying after he resigned from BA that he would never return to the airline industry.
It seems he wishes to move back to AUS [Perth?] to spend time with his family and get a life.
Cheers Jettlager
Rod Eddington is on record as saying after he resigned from BA that he would never return to the airline industry.
It seems he wishes to move back to AUS [Perth?] to spend time with his family and get a life.
Cheers Jettlager
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raver......
looks like tow truck hit a nerve......ouch!
I hate to burst your bubble but a lot of people have the same idea that he/she does. but the words could have been put together differently.
Yes people are expressing their concerns, but "we will survive".
hate to tell you this, but we do have the ability to read or hit the back button on our browser, therefore there is no need to "cut and paste" all the time...
Interesting how AO crew have such interest in our lives....
have a good one, have a good night
looks like tow truck hit a nerve......ouch!
I hate to burst your bubble but a lot of people have the same idea that he/she does. but the words could have been put together differently.
Yes people are expressing their concerns, but "we will survive".
hate to tell you this, but we do have the ability to read or hit the back button on our browser, therefore there is no need to "cut and paste" all the time...
Interesting how AO crew have such interest in our lives....
have a good one, have a good night