NEW Australian Airlines (AO) EBA 2005 (merged)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We may see a base other then Cairns specified in the next round of recruitment. "Rumour" has it this will be another Qantas strategy to put the fear into existing crew to vote up the EBA or risk having new crew recruited into a base a large majority of Cairns crew would want.
We all know that Sydney and/or Melbourne bases have been discussed and disgarded in the past but with Qantas anything is possible to get the EBA voted up. Mind you once the EBA is voted up a Sydney or Melbourne base is probally highly likely.
When I heard this rumour last week I thought it was an interesting cost free tatic but didnt really think it would be a road they would take but now that they announce recruitment in April maybe I was wrong. Wait and see I suppose.
We all know that Sydney and/or Melbourne bases have been discussed and disgarded in the past but with Qantas anything is possible to get the EBA voted up. Mind you once the EBA is voted up a Sydney or Melbourne base is probally highly likely.
When I heard this rumour last week I thought it was an interesting cost free tatic but didnt really think it would be a road they would take but now that they announce recruitment in April maybe I was wrong. Wait and see I suppose.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the advice Mid Assist, but if you re-read my post you will see that i never said I was threatened or felt threatened by the email or any individual.
My concern was how this group of people managed to get my email address. I have dealt with THIS situation in the proper manner and it is now being investigated.
I agree that there has been a conflict of interests but I think it is from management not the FAAA. At the end of the day these people also have to work under whatever is agreed to. Hopefully management will restart negotiations with the FAAA soon and this will all be over.
My concern was how this group of people managed to get my email address. I have dealt with THIS situation in the proper manner and it is now being investigated.
I agree that there has been a conflict of interests but I think it is from management not the FAAA. At the end of the day these people also have to work under whatever is agreed to. Hopefully management will restart negotiations with the FAAA soon and this will all be over.
Interested...
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems the majority of people pushing the petition are CM's or newly recruited CM's. Could it be they are all satisfied now because their pay has substantially increased ? What about the rest of us ? With inflation it's a pay decrease for crying out loud !
One person pushing the petition who hijacked the crew room with an inpromptu speech in front of crew the other day seems to have a huge problem with Michael Mitjatov. This person seems to have it in for him, but from what I hear the issues between these two go back 10 years ago.
Mid Assist - If you don't find personal emails threatening from people you don't know asking you to vote for something behind the FAAA's back then why would you be worried about constructive talk on the pprune forum ?
I really hope this all gets resolved very shortly. But I can tell you that I have lost a lot of respect for management regardless of the outcome.
One person pushing the petition who hijacked the crew room with an inpromptu speech in front of crew the other day seems to have a huge problem with Michael Mitjatov. This person seems to have it in for him, but from what I hear the issues between these two go back 10 years ago.
Mid Assist - If you don't find personal emails threatening from people you don't know asking you to vote for something behind the FAAA's back then why would you be worried about constructive talk on the pprune forum ?
I really hope this all gets resolved very shortly. But I can tell you that I have lost a lot of respect for management regardless of the outcome.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: north
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sonique: I thought i was being constructive as well! Also that same person who made the speech, said to walk away and not hear what they were going to say. One thing to keep in mind, CMs are in a way part of management. I know, a few CMs are involved in negotiations, however they have a very good relationship with AO management.
TCM NOT: point taken. (thankyou)
Ok, emotions have come into it now. I agree some crew have jumped the gun a little, and probably shoulv'e given it another week.
With all the dramas' of last week in the past. I hope this week we can find a path to resolution. I still believe very strongly that we are the best crew in Australia!
TCM NOT: point taken. (thankyou)
Ok, emotions have come into it now. I agree some crew have jumped the gun a little, and probably shoulv'e given it another week.
With all the dramas' of last week in the past. I hope this week we can find a path to resolution. I still believe very strongly that we are the best crew in Australia!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Midassist,
A fantastic bunch of unique people who are great flight attendants.
That is why this is so highly emotional !
What happens next ? I am totally confused
Personally I would be happy with 4% and more roster requests.
Oh...and a new uniform jacket
A fantastic bunch of unique people who are great flight attendants.
That is why this is so highly emotional !What happens next ? I am totally confused
Personally I would be happy with 4% and more roster requests.
Oh...and a new uniform jacket
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TCM Not , As stated before only email addresses contained within personal cabin crew address books were used and think about it , why would there be a need to forward it to other crew if the office info was taken, it would have gone to all crew in one email !
Any official enquiry would only reveal that no breach occoured. If privacy is the only issue you have, then rest assured that it was not breached. Whilst freedom of speech remains a human right in Australia, this is not an issue.
Any official enquiry would only reveal that no breach occoured. If privacy is the only issue you have, then rest assured that it was not breached. Whilst freedom of speech remains a human right in Australia, this is not an issue.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ---
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
5 May 2005
Attention all Australian Airlines Cabin Crew
Results for FAAA Ballot For
AO/QANTAS Bargaining Proposal
Thank you to all crew who voted in the ballot to direct the FAAA whether to try reach agreement with AO/Qantas on the basis of four pre-conditions laid down by AO/Qantas management.
The four pre-conditions are:
There will be no cap on the number of crew that may be engaged overseas.
There will be no restriction on the class of service or type of product (including aircraft type) that can be offered by Australian Airlines.
There will be no restriction on the type of East West flying that crew can be required to perform. Currently the flying done by AO is restricted to destinations of no more than 4- hour time change from Cairns.
Crew will get 48 hours and two local nights rest at home following any duty that falls outside the four-hour time change.
We now advise crew that 64% of crew are in favour of directing the FAAA to try to reach agreement with AO/Qantas on the basis of the four pre-conditions above. We have advised AO management verbally of the outcome and requested a meeting to be held to finalise an agreement - and they have now asked us to put this position in writing to go to senior levels of Qantas management! This really shows us who has been running the negotiations here!
If you require any further information, please contact AO Special Projects Officers Shane Wade, Pauline Elphinstone, Matt Watts, Scott Newell or Toni Gilliver located in Cairns or FAAA Industrial Officers Victoria Skinner or Cameron McInerney in Sydney on (02) 9267 2533 or 1800 267 952.
Written by Victoria Skinner and authorised by
Andrew Smedley - Assistant Secretary - International Division
****************************************************
Even though this is the not the outcome that we wanted, this is the outcome that has probably saved our jobs and our flying.
Let's see if QF accept our offer to accept their EBA.
Attention all Australian Airlines Cabin Crew
Results for FAAA Ballot For
AO/QANTAS Bargaining Proposal
Thank you to all crew who voted in the ballot to direct the FAAA whether to try reach agreement with AO/Qantas on the basis of four pre-conditions laid down by AO/Qantas management.
The four pre-conditions are:
There will be no cap on the number of crew that may be engaged overseas.
There will be no restriction on the class of service or type of product (including aircraft type) that can be offered by Australian Airlines.
There will be no restriction on the type of East West flying that crew can be required to perform. Currently the flying done by AO is restricted to destinations of no more than 4- hour time change from Cairns.
Crew will get 48 hours and two local nights rest at home following any duty that falls outside the four-hour time change.
We now advise crew that 64% of crew are in favour of directing the FAAA to try to reach agreement with AO/Qantas on the basis of the four pre-conditions above. We have advised AO management verbally of the outcome and requested a meeting to be held to finalise an agreement - and they have now asked us to put this position in writing to go to senior levels of Qantas management! This really shows us who has been running the negotiations here!
If you require any further information, please contact AO Special Projects Officers Shane Wade, Pauline Elphinstone, Matt Watts, Scott Newell or Toni Gilliver located in Cairns or FAAA Industrial Officers Victoria Skinner or Cameron McInerney in Sydney on (02) 9267 2533 or 1800 267 952.
Written by Victoria Skinner and authorised by
Andrew Smedley - Assistant Secretary - International Division
****************************************************
Even though this is the not the outcome that we wanted, this is the outcome that has probably saved our jobs and our flying.
Let's see if QF accept our offer to accept their EBA.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does that mean you just accept those 4 pre-conditions and accept the offer previously made by QF/AO or does that mean the FAAA negotiate more money for accepting those pre-conditions?
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe it is an agreement on the above mentioned conditions...with no further negotiations. Which means we are accepting what was originally offered. It may not be what some wanted - however is much better than individual contracts.
Theeya's
RaverFlaver
Theeya's
RaverFlaver
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GH,
We've been told the 6th a/c is not coming. I wonder if conditions will now change overnight due to the EBA being signed off ?
I can just see VH-OGU ( the next planned a/c to come to AO ) turning up next week in 2 class layout ready to op's BNE-HNL and SYD-MNL due to a sudden 'change' in the passenger demand on these routes.
It's a volatile industry you know ! How were they to know that one week later things would change !
We've been told the 6th a/c is not coming. I wonder if conditions will now change overnight due to the EBA being signed off ?
I can just see VH-OGU ( the next planned a/c to come to AO ) turning up next week in 2 class layout ready to op's BNE-HNL and SYD-MNL due to a sudden 'change' in the passenger demand on these routes.
It's a volatile industry you know ! How were they to know that one week later things would change !
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why not throw in a couple of 2 class - ah the hell with it 3 classs 747-300's a Sydney and Melbourne base, a few Europe patterns along with current Qantaslink Orche uniform.
Who know's anything is possible now!
Who know's anything is possible now!
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now we vote....
As per company email received yesterday.
Ladies and Gentlemen
As I stated in my email on Monday we met yesterday with the FAAA again to
try and reach an agreement on your EBA.
I am pleased to announce, that after going through all the outstanding
issues, and after a number of concessions from both sides, we reached
agreement.
The process from here is that the current EBA document will be redrafted to
reflect the agreed upon changes from your original EBA, and it will then be
distributed to all crew for review hopefully by the end of next week.
You will be given 14 days to review this new document. Then you will be
asked to vote to either accept or reject the changes.This will be done
using the Elections Australian Website.
Once the voting has closed, if the offer is accepted, it will then go
before the Australian Industrial Commission for Certification.
I would expect this process to be finalised by late June or early July. It
is at this time that the agreed changes will be implemented.
I would also like to thank each of you, for your patience throughout this
process, and look forward to refocusing on the challengers we face together
as a business rather than what has been dividing us as individuals
Ladies and Gentlemen
As I stated in my email on Monday we met yesterday with the FAAA again to
try and reach an agreement on your EBA.
I am pleased to announce, that after going through all the outstanding
issues, and after a number of concessions from both sides, we reached
agreement.
The process from here is that the current EBA document will be redrafted to
reflect the agreed upon changes from your original EBA, and it will then be
distributed to all crew for review hopefully by the end of next week.
You will be given 14 days to review this new document. Then you will be
asked to vote to either accept or reject the changes.This will be done
using the Elections Australian Website.
Once the voting has closed, if the offer is accepted, it will then go
before the Australian Industrial Commission for Certification.
I would expect this process to be finalised by late June or early July. It
is at this time that the agreed changes will be implemented.
I would also like to thank each of you, for your patience throughout this
process, and look forward to refocusing on the challengers we face together
as a business rather than what has been dividing us as individuals
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For all those crew with AO and are wondering what to vote,read on..
The faaa position that you will lose your job or be forced on to a personal workplace agreement is rubbish.They cannot make you go backwards from your previous EBA.
As for GD's threat of painting the a/c silver ,this is also rubbish,can you imagine the punters paying for a softdrink,peanuts and a sandwich on a 7 hour flight,in a word,they wouldn't.
Why on earth is the faaa recommending that you accept a precondition of overseas bases with no limit.When AO sets up bases in Sin and beyond you will be lucky to fly for more than 3 days.Thats why they want it so they can set up cheap as chips crew all over the place.
Look at how QF longhaul flying is being decimated by overseas bases and it was the faaa that agreed or recommended to us that we increase our cap.
We have just lost a slip in JFK and the threat was if we did not accept an increase in hours they would replace us with AKL crew.
Again the faaa have given dispensation ostensibly to work together with the company in cost cutting.
How did QF thank us after dispensation was given,they cut our slip on our one and only trip to LHR to one night and also from frankfurt on the way home in singapore.
By all means negotiate an EBA but whatever you do don't agree to a limitless cap,it is insane!!!!!!!!!!
The faaa position that you will lose your job or be forced on to a personal workplace agreement is rubbish.They cannot make you go backwards from your previous EBA.
As for GD's threat of painting the a/c silver ,this is also rubbish,can you imagine the punters paying for a softdrink,peanuts and a sandwich on a 7 hour flight,in a word,they wouldn't.
Why on earth is the faaa recommending that you accept a precondition of overseas bases with no limit.When AO sets up bases in Sin and beyond you will be lucky to fly for more than 3 days.Thats why they want it so they can set up cheap as chips crew all over the place.
Look at how QF longhaul flying is being decimated by overseas bases and it was the faaa that agreed or recommended to us that we increase our cap.
We have just lost a slip in JFK and the threat was if we did not accept an increase in hours they would replace us with AKL crew.
Again the faaa have given dispensation ostensibly to work together with the company in cost cutting.
How did QF thank us after dispensation was given,they cut our slip on our one and only trip to LHR to one night and also from frankfurt on the way home in singapore.
By all means negotiate an EBA but whatever you do don't agree to a limitless cap,it is insane!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lowerlobe,
The FAAA and all crew did not want Overseas bases at all let alone no cap. We dont like it one bit. The FAAA had no choice but to accept because the majority of the crew voted in favour, not because they want this but because the company would not negotiate on the matter and strike breakers were trained up and ready to replace us at a moments notice, so its not like there was a choice to be made.
As for your comment on them not being able to paint the AC silver because pax wont pay for food and drinks on a seven hour flight, well nothing stops them offering full service on international and no frills on domestic just like virgin atlantic compared to virgin blue. QF Management is free to move its flying wherever it chooses to and most likely where it costs least to operate, so having divided QF into divisions competing for the flying there is no option.Be competitive or lose the flying. Its happening to QF LH and if we dont agree to company conditions it will happen to AO too. Times have changed and there isn't much we can do about it.
The workplace agreements are not rubbish, the company can place us on collective or individual workplace agreements if our eba cannot be negotiated. The crew had good reason for voting the way they did, as there was no real choice!
The FAAA and all crew did not want Overseas bases at all let alone no cap. We dont like it one bit. The FAAA had no choice but to accept because the majority of the crew voted in favour, not because they want this but because the company would not negotiate on the matter and strike breakers were trained up and ready to replace us at a moments notice, so its not like there was a choice to be made.
As for your comment on them not being able to paint the AC silver because pax wont pay for food and drinks on a seven hour flight, well nothing stops them offering full service on international and no frills on domestic just like virgin atlantic compared to virgin blue. QF Management is free to move its flying wherever it chooses to and most likely where it costs least to operate, so having divided QF into divisions competing for the flying there is no option.Be competitive or lose the flying. Its happening to QF LH and if we dont agree to company conditions it will happen to AO too. Times have changed and there isn't much we can do about it.
The workplace agreements are not rubbish, the company can place us on collective or individual workplace agreements if our eba cannot be negotiated. The crew had good reason for voting the way they did, as there was no real choice!