NEW Australian Airlines (AO) EBA 2005 (merged)
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amongthestars,
If you really are a strikebreaker for AO.....I would be interested to know what you think will happen to you ?
Will you go back to your former employment after the strike ? or are you thinking that they might offer you full-time employment once they see how brilliant you are ?
(btw - A lexus is a classic,stylish,chic car that everyone wants ( i.e - just like what airlines look for when they choose new 'permanent' crew - think about it. )
If you really are a strikebreaker for AO.....I would be interested to know what you think will happen to you ?
Will you go back to your former employment after the strike ? or are you thinking that they might offer you full-time employment once they see how brilliant you are ?
(btw - A lexus is a classic,stylish,chic car that everyone wants ( i.e - just like what airlines look for when they choose new 'permanent' crew - think about it. )
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Cut and paste from SMH 21/2/05
Qantas finds route around foreign crews cap
By Scott Rochfort
February 21, 2005
Qantas is looking to bypass an agreement that caps the number of cabin crew based overseas by hiring lower-paid Asian crews to work for its low-cost international subsidiary, Australian Airlines.
Just three months after Qantas avoided widespread industrial action by its 4000 international flight attendants over plans to establish a London crew base, Australian Airlines has told the Flight Attendants Association it wants unrestricted access to foreign labour.
Michael Mijatov, the secretary of the union's international division, said: "What they are saying to us is that they don't want any restriction at all."
Pay negotiations between the Qantas subsidiary and the union broke down last month.
The move represents the latest low in relations between Qantas and the union since the airline secretly trained hundreds of flight attendants as potential strike-breakers last year.
Relations appeared to be on the mend after the union agreed to Qantas's plans for the London base by lifting the cap on foreign-based crews from 370 to 870 overall last November.
Qantas expects to save $18 million a year - mainly from reduced hotel and meal bills - when it sets up the 400-strong London crew base next week.
Australian Airlines is not bound by the cap because it is considered a separate airline from Qantas.
When asked about the airline's plans to source flight attendants in Asia, a Qantas spokesman said: "There are no immediate plans to change the way Australian Airlines operates. However, to ensure the long-term viability of Australian Airlines, there cannot be restrictions placed on the airline's growth."
Australian Airlines has not specified in which countries it wants to establish crew bases.
The Flight Attendants Association is also resisting moves by the airline to force its flight crews to fly longer sectors without a substantial pay rise.
The union says Australian Airlines crews are already paid 40 per cent less an hour than their Qantas counterparts.
Qantas says the airline has a 25 to 30 per cent lower cost base overall.
Fears among unions of more Qantas jobs going overseas were fuelled last week when the carrier's chief executive, Geoff Dixon, said it needed to find "more efficiencies by putting more jobs offshore".
Despite Qantas cementing its reputation as the world's most profitable airline by reporting a 28 per cent lift in half-year profits to $458.4 million, Mr Dixon said the airline was competitively constrained by having 95 per cent of its heavily unionised 35,000 employees based in Australia.
Mr Dixon will meet unions this morning in Sydney, where he is expected to face intense questioning over the airline's plans to move jobs offshore.
While Mr Dixon played down reports last week that Qantas wanted to move about 7000 jobs offshore, he said: "If we want to be like more of our competitors, they probably have 70 per cent of their people in their home countries."
As part of its three-year program to cut $1.5 billion from its cost base, Qantas is looking to save $486 million from improved "labour productivity" by the middle of 2006.
Qantas finds route around foreign crews cap
By Scott Rochfort
February 21, 2005
Qantas is looking to bypass an agreement that caps the number of cabin crew based overseas by hiring lower-paid Asian crews to work for its low-cost international subsidiary, Australian Airlines.
Just three months after Qantas avoided widespread industrial action by its 4000 international flight attendants over plans to establish a London crew base, Australian Airlines has told the Flight Attendants Association it wants unrestricted access to foreign labour.
Michael Mijatov, the secretary of the union's international division, said: "What they are saying to us is that they don't want any restriction at all."
Pay negotiations between the Qantas subsidiary and the union broke down last month.
The move represents the latest low in relations between Qantas and the union since the airline secretly trained hundreds of flight attendants as potential strike-breakers last year.
Relations appeared to be on the mend after the union agreed to Qantas's plans for the London base by lifting the cap on foreign-based crews from 370 to 870 overall last November.
Qantas expects to save $18 million a year - mainly from reduced hotel and meal bills - when it sets up the 400-strong London crew base next week.
Australian Airlines is not bound by the cap because it is considered a separate airline from Qantas.
When asked about the airline's plans to source flight attendants in Asia, a Qantas spokesman said: "There are no immediate plans to change the way Australian Airlines operates. However, to ensure the long-term viability of Australian Airlines, there cannot be restrictions placed on the airline's growth."
Australian Airlines has not specified in which countries it wants to establish crew bases.
The Flight Attendants Association is also resisting moves by the airline to force its flight crews to fly longer sectors without a substantial pay rise.
The union says Australian Airlines crews are already paid 40 per cent less an hour than their Qantas counterparts.
Qantas says the airline has a 25 to 30 per cent lower cost base overall.
Fears among unions of more Qantas jobs going overseas were fuelled last week when the carrier's chief executive, Geoff Dixon, said it needed to find "more efficiencies by putting more jobs offshore".
Despite Qantas cementing its reputation as the world's most profitable airline by reporting a 28 per cent lift in half-year profits to $458.4 million, Mr Dixon said the airline was competitively constrained by having 95 per cent of its heavily unionised 35,000 employees based in Australia.
Mr Dixon will meet unions this morning in Sydney, where he is expected to face intense questioning over the airline's plans to move jobs offshore.
While Mr Dixon played down reports last week that Qantas wanted to move about 7000 jobs offshore, he said: "If we want to be like more of our competitors, they probably have 70 per cent of their people in their home countries."
As part of its three-year program to cut $1.5 billion from its cost base, Qantas is looking to save $486 million from improved "labour productivity" by the middle of 2006.
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It will be a shame to see even more jobs go offshore-i checked in to the hotel the other day in Sydney and asked to see the crew list to see if i had any friends (hahaha), but i was the only short haul person there, yet there were about 50 or so long haulers and every single one of them were Thai crew!!!!!, there were a couple signing in before me, i just thought it was hilarious, here they were dressed in the Qantas "Spirit of Australia" uniform talking loudly amongst themselves and not speaking a word of English!!!! I mean if you get onboard a Qantas flight from a long overseas holiday etc, you look forward to getting on an Australian airline with Australian crew and hearing the Australian accent etc, i mean i'm not racist by any means and good on them for getting the job, i'm all for diversity, except i find this quite simply very disappointing. Most of all, i honestly feel saddened for the way Geoff and his management think they can run an Australian icon. I guess like everything, it comes down to the dollar.
so i wonder then if permanency for casuals is still on the cards then, hmm..............
so i wonder then if permanency for casuals is still on the cards then, hmm..............
Join Date: Feb 2003
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They are in Sydney training now. They started on Saturday and consist of approx 46 (?) people. 8 of these are off the streeters (eg. mam strike breakers) and the rest are from internal QF that were trained earlier for the QF strike. Some are actually being trained as CM's. Apparently not really expecting to fly but really looking forward to their all expenses paid 3 week holiday in Cairns plus a lovely bonus at the end of it. Apparently they will be issued with an AO shirt but get to wear their own trousers. Bugger, they are going to look better than us!!!!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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MAM has started calling again!
Just to let everyone know there are new MAM courses starting. People are getting phone calls from today. Don't know the numbers etc.
Good Luck All!
Good Luck All!
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Straight from QF HR, the casuals that went for interviews for permanency a month or so ago and are now waiting to see if you got on the shortlist, apparently there is no shortlist being created, meaning there is no one needed to go on one at present. This is due to there being a freeze on any recruitment to do with Qantas, however they are recruiting MAM casuals for the SYD and PER bases. If ANY permanent recruitment is to occur for casuals it won't be until the next financial year.
This is very frustrating considering this was known a couple of weeks ago, but QF didn't/doesn't have the decency to let casuals know ANYTHING! It just makes me laugh how Qantas as a business can somehow seem to forecast years in advance ways to save money etc, yet they put everyone through interviews (some more gruelling than others) and a month later, they decide it isn't going to happen and they don't know when it will in the future, but in the meantime, pile in the casuals! (They can forecast years ahead, but not single months!!!)
There is still a slight glimmer of hope, but it may take longer than expected. I don't mind waiting, but my biggest frustration is that Qantas has no communication skills whatsoever, yet they want to promote communication amongst everyone through cabin crew forums, roadshow's, publications etc, yet they don't practice what they preach!!!!
Oz
This is very frustrating considering this was known a couple of weeks ago, but QF didn't/doesn't have the decency to let casuals know ANYTHING! It just makes me laugh how Qantas as a business can somehow seem to forecast years in advance ways to save money etc, yet they put everyone through interviews (some more gruelling than others) and a month later, they decide it isn't going to happen and they don't know when it will in the future, but in the meantime, pile in the casuals! (They can forecast years ahead, but not single months!!!)
There is still a slight glimmer of hope, but it may take longer than expected. I don't mind waiting, but my biggest frustration is that Qantas has no communication skills whatsoever, yet they want to promote communication amongst everyone through cabin crew forums, roadshow's, publications etc, yet they don't practice what they preach!!!!
Oz
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I know of one "strike breaker" working in QF long haul tech crew scheduling (name withheld) , that is boasting quite openly about going to cairns as a csm scab with Australian Airlines. This particular individual has no morals or qualms about being a strike breaker and openly voluntered and trained to scab as a QF long haul csm, with only 3 days of csm training. The company also tried to use him to operate about a month ago with regular crew, as they where short of csm's, however he declined the invitation due to "personal reasons". I can say that if i ever see this person in uniform operating with regular scheduled long haul crew I will report the individual and the company to the union and casa. How would the rest of the company feel if we voluntereed to work in their jobs if they where attempting to keep some kind of job security for themselves. Geoff Dixon is out to break the unions and work place agreements. I feel sorry for those crew at Australian Airlines that are going to get screwed by him and the scabs.
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What a disgrace - AO crew are now prepared to accept 3% pa rise over 3 years as long as some conditions are agreed upon regarding the EBA.
Yet.....management still want it all their way.
What a sad day for the culture of AO......good one AO management........trouble is NOW on the way.
3 March 2005
Attention all Australian Airlines Flight Attendants
EBA Negotiations Meeting Update - NO NO NO!!!
Your AO Special Project Officers and officials of the FAAA met with AO Management in Sydney yesterday.
At that meeting, we indicated to AO management that we don't want to be forced to take industrial action against AO in support of our claims for a reasonable set of conditions to take us forward into the next three years.
Members should be aware that in the six months since July 2004, AO contributed $8.5M in profit to the Qantas group. What is the reward that AO management has given crew for the savings they have contributed, such as passport reconciliation and payment of allowances? We would like to know the savings that management have contributed in that time.
Yesterday we put the following claim to AO management:
1. Overseas based crew
A limit on the number of overseas based crew to the equivalent of 10% of the Australian based establishment numbers
In the event of redundancy, overseas based crew are also affected
If AO has overseas based crew, there must also be 300 Australian based crew
2. On board service
Only one class of service can be offered, but this can include a premium product
3. Changes to current restrictions
If AO wants to fly outside the current 4 hour East-West time zone restriction or operate another type of aircraft, crew and the FAAA must be consulted. If there are any outstanding issues, the introduction of the change can't be delayed or prevented but the Australian Industrial Relations Commission would have jurisdiction to hear and settle disputes about the issues.
If the change relates to the current 4 hour East-West time zone restriction, AO must consult on crew rest and minimum base turnaround.
4. A dedicated senior manager to be introduced if there are more than 300 passengers on board an aircraft.
If AO accepted these claims, we would accept a 3% per year increase and there would be no more threats of industrial action. This is even in light of yesterday's interest rate hike, the projection of further increases and a 3.5% CPI figure for 2005.
We also tabled 6 further initiatives that would encourage crew to accept this final offer from the Company.
Then we were told what you deserve would be for contributing $8.5M profit in six months…nothing, nothing, nothing!
AO says it has no plans to introduce an overseas base now, doesn't have a location that would suit an overseas base, but still can't give you a commitment about a direct threat to your employment! In the event of redundancy, AO can't give a commitment regarding your job security if there are more than 300 crew employed. You could almost think you weren't working for AUSTRALIAN Airlines. They also couldn't commit to any of our 6 further initiatives.
We urge you to talk to management and your delegates and contact the FAAA office about these issues - remember - these issues will establish and entrench your conditions for at least the next 3 years. We will be having a telephone conference with your Special Project Officers on Monday to decide the best way forward to show AO management how strongly committed AO crew are to the future of AO, but how they also want to share in that future. So think hard about fighting for these conditions and let us know how you feel now.
FAAA.net
Yet.....management still want it all their way.
What a sad day for the culture of AO......good one AO management........trouble is NOW on the way.
3 March 2005
Attention all Australian Airlines Flight Attendants
EBA Negotiations Meeting Update - NO NO NO!!!
Your AO Special Project Officers and officials of the FAAA met with AO Management in Sydney yesterday.
At that meeting, we indicated to AO management that we don't want to be forced to take industrial action against AO in support of our claims for a reasonable set of conditions to take us forward into the next three years.
Members should be aware that in the six months since July 2004, AO contributed $8.5M in profit to the Qantas group. What is the reward that AO management has given crew for the savings they have contributed, such as passport reconciliation and payment of allowances? We would like to know the savings that management have contributed in that time.
Yesterday we put the following claim to AO management:
1. Overseas based crew
A limit on the number of overseas based crew to the equivalent of 10% of the Australian based establishment numbers
In the event of redundancy, overseas based crew are also affected
If AO has overseas based crew, there must also be 300 Australian based crew
2. On board service
Only one class of service can be offered, but this can include a premium product
3. Changes to current restrictions
If AO wants to fly outside the current 4 hour East-West time zone restriction or operate another type of aircraft, crew and the FAAA must be consulted. If there are any outstanding issues, the introduction of the change can't be delayed or prevented but the Australian Industrial Relations Commission would have jurisdiction to hear and settle disputes about the issues.
If the change relates to the current 4 hour East-West time zone restriction, AO must consult on crew rest and minimum base turnaround.
4. A dedicated senior manager to be introduced if there are more than 300 passengers on board an aircraft.
If AO accepted these claims, we would accept a 3% per year increase and there would be no more threats of industrial action. This is even in light of yesterday's interest rate hike, the projection of further increases and a 3.5% CPI figure for 2005.
We also tabled 6 further initiatives that would encourage crew to accept this final offer from the Company.
Then we were told what you deserve would be for contributing $8.5M profit in six months…nothing, nothing, nothing!
AO says it has no plans to introduce an overseas base now, doesn't have a location that would suit an overseas base, but still can't give you a commitment about a direct threat to your employment! In the event of redundancy, AO can't give a commitment regarding your job security if there are more than 300 crew employed. You could almost think you weren't working for AUSTRALIAN Airlines. They also couldn't commit to any of our 6 further initiatives.
We urge you to talk to management and your delegates and contact the FAAA office about these issues - remember - these issues will establish and entrench your conditions for at least the next 3 years. We will be having a telephone conference with your Special Project Officers on Monday to decide the best way forward to show AO management how strongly committed AO crew are to the future of AO, but how they also want to share in that future. So think hard about fighting for these conditions and let us know how you feel now.
FAAA.net
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I would be wary of voting this eba up until some points are cleared up:
1 - a premuim product can be offered? - Clariffication please AO?
2 - If the change relates to the current 4 hour East-West time zone restriction, AO must consult on crew rest and minimum base turnaround - NO,NO, NO this needs to be discussed a put into the EBA BEFORE it goes out to vote.
3 - A dedicated senior manager to be introduced if there are more than 300 passengers on board an aircraft. Looks like QF are planning to transfer for 743's over to AO. Even less flying for us at QF long haul.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU VOTE FOR
1 - a premuim product can be offered? - Clariffication please AO?
2 - If the change relates to the current 4 hour East-West time zone restriction, AO must consult on crew rest and minimum base turnaround - NO,NO, NO this needs to be discussed a put into the EBA BEFORE it goes out to vote.
3 - A dedicated senior manager to be introduced if there are more than 300 passengers on board an aircraft. Looks like QF are planning to transfer for 743's over to AO. Even less flying for us at QF long haul.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU VOTE FOR
Thread Starter
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recruiting strikebreakers....
sorry... this thread is devoted to the employees of AO and the issues of our NEW EBA - the eba we are worried about so that people like you can enjoy great conditions when and if you are employed by AO.
sorry... this thread is devoted to the employees of AO and the issues of our NEW EBA - the eba we are worried about so that people like you can enjoy great conditions when and if you are employed by AO.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Well Sonique...
For your information I had posted this topic in a NEW thread but it was Merged into this thread by the Moderators...So if you have any problems with that I suggest you solve it with the Moderators!
Rollz
For your information I had posted this topic in a NEW thread but it was Merged into this thread by the Moderators...So if you have any problems with that I suggest you solve it with the Moderators!
Rollz
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I think that Union's need to operate in a fair and reasonable manor, to both it's members and also must take some responsibility and view the relationship with the Airline as mutually beneficial.
What comes to mind was the failure of Ansett. I think that the unions had a large responsibility and failed miserably in the years leading up to it's failure, by demanding what I thought at the time were excessive pay increases. It wasn't that I didn't think that it was deserving, but there is a balance of whether or not it was at the time economically available for the Airline to absorb these costs. In the end, I guess it wasn't.
I would like to see one day, an airline who's management is focused on both it's people and the bottom line at the same time, and also work with it's employees union's and vice a versa to form a partnership and build one of the best airlines in the world. Maybe one day.... Maybe not.
I believe that there is a place for Union's in the workplace, but at the same time believe that they should also be responsible. It is a bit unfortunate, that in order for Airlines to employ staff they need to have customers, and those customers are becoming increasingly sensitive to the price of their ticket.
I guess the other thing is that when you want to join an airline, you know what the pay and conditions are before you get into the Industry. What I find strange is that people join the industry and then complain about the conditions. It is a fine balance between enjoying your job, and the renumeration. Some people have jobs that they do because they enjoy it, but don't get paid alot, and other people do jobs that pay well, but they absolutely hate. At the same time though, I do believe that you should be paid fairly and rewarded for your work. Establishing that balance is for the individual, and no one else.
What comes to mind was the failure of Ansett. I think that the unions had a large responsibility and failed miserably in the years leading up to it's failure, by demanding what I thought at the time were excessive pay increases. It wasn't that I didn't think that it was deserving, but there is a balance of whether or not it was at the time economically available for the Airline to absorb these costs. In the end, I guess it wasn't.
I would like to see one day, an airline who's management is focused on both it's people and the bottom line at the same time, and also work with it's employees union's and vice a versa to form a partnership and build one of the best airlines in the world. Maybe one day.... Maybe not.
I believe that there is a place for Union's in the workplace, but at the same time believe that they should also be responsible. It is a bit unfortunate, that in order for Airlines to employ staff they need to have customers, and those customers are becoming increasingly sensitive to the price of their ticket.
I guess the other thing is that when you want to join an airline, you know what the pay and conditions are before you get into the Industry. What I find strange is that people join the industry and then complain about the conditions. It is a fine balance between enjoying your job, and the renumeration. Some people have jobs that they do because they enjoy it, but don't get paid alot, and other people do jobs that pay well, but they absolutely hate. At the same time though, I do believe that you should be paid fairly and rewarded for your work. Establishing that balance is for the individual, and no one else.