NEW Australian Airlines (AO) EBA 2005 (merged)
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missing the point
my comments are not relates to the staff at AO. its purely a reflection what GD keeps saying about return on asset, contributing to the qf group. in reality AO cant keep on flying on the margins it produces. nothing against AO staff. thats straight from the chief bean counter (thats one PG). every qf group has to be profitable. as i said previously you guys need new aircrafts and so on. at current levels you cant return a satisfactory profit. my idea would be put AO back under the qf label still doing what you are doing. then you may get more routes where they want to cut lh out. qf just came in second at the anual skytrax (airlinequality.com) awards behind cathay. not a bad contribution from a bunch of old short and longhaulers.
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NO NO NO
Voting has opened.
99% of people I have spoken to will or have already voted NO.
Lét's hope our friends at QF L/H support us if the EBA gets voted down because we're going to be in a spot of bother regarding our future.
( Ít's the non negotiation clause with the FAAA and rest requirements, foreign base clause which have ultimately made crew vote NO )
99% of people I have spoken to will or have already voted NO.
Lét's hope our friends at QF L/H support us if the EBA gets voted down because we're going to be in a spot of bother regarding our future.
( Ít's the non negotiation clause with the FAAA and rest requirements, foreign base clause which have ultimately made crew vote NO )
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3 cheers for AO
to all our collegues in AO. stick to your guns. i sincerly hope your no vote gets up. not because i am toatally anti company but this Eba is draconian. it only serves the purpose of having a go at the rest and increase the bonuses of andrea and gordon and the rest. you certainly get all the support from sh and lh.
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If the no vote gets up, the company will most likely have our current eba terminated because of inability to reach agreement,
which will then allow them to place us on individual or collective contracts which is a far worse situation to be in!
which will then allow them to place us on individual or collective contracts which is a far worse situation to be in!
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THE ARROGANCE
Qantas is also expected to score a major breakthrough in its bid to hire more lower-paid Asian staff through its Australian Airlines subsidiary next week. The airline's 310 cabin crew are expected to vote for a deal next Wednesday which will allow the airline to access foreign crews.
When asked about Qantas's plans to source Asian labour, Qantas's Kevin Brown said: "We shouldn't be constrained given our network of where we fly, and given what our competitors have available to them …
MANAGEMENT SEEM SO SURE YOU WILL VOTE FOR THEM! STICK TO YOUR GUNS..........
When asked about Qantas's plans to source Asian labour, Qantas's Kevin Brown said: "We shouldn't be constrained given our network of where we fly, and given what our competitors have available to them …
MANAGEMENT SEEM SO SURE YOU WILL VOTE FOR THEM! STICK TO YOUR GUNS..........
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DON'T sell your jobs to overseas cheapies.
The classic is QF saying that Oz jobs will not be lost by it's actions. Well a quote from a senior exec says it all:
Voting yes will deliver a wage increase but that's not much use if you don't have a job.
BE CAREFULL GUYS !!!!!!
The classic is QF saying that Oz jobs will not be lost by it's actions. Well a quote from a senior exec says it all:
"What we said to the unions nearly 14 months ago was that Jetstar during start-up would not result in the loss of jobs in Qantas.
Mr Brown said Qantas "never said jobs would not be lost over time" after Jetstar's introduction.
Mr Brown said Qantas "never said jobs would not be lost over time" after Jetstar's introduction.
BE CAREFULL GUYS !!!!!!
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Cabin Scrag
You will find that AO will threaten individual contracts, or put rumours out about it. They wont. Managing 300 individual contracts for the same role is no mean feat, they would have to employ 10 people just to re-negotiate and maintain the contracts! Collective bargaining works not only for you guys if you stick together, but it also makes life a lot simpler for any employer with more than say 20 employees in the same role. If individual contracts were a more desireable outcome for the AO or QF in general, they would have started AO on individual contracts, the QF LHR base would be all individual contracts and QF in general would have issued individual contracts to all and sundry! Dont beleieve the spin about that issue. It is an empty threat. There is no benefit to them doing it. Oh and they cant just chuck out the current EBA if there is no agreement reached. It continues till an agreement is met. Thats the law. If you cant get to a point where you agree, both sets of representatives end up in mediation or in front of the industrial relations comission who will decide for you!
You will find that AO will threaten individual contracts, or put rumours out about it. They wont. Managing 300 individual contracts for the same role is no mean feat, they would have to employ 10 people just to re-negotiate and maintain the contracts! Collective bargaining works not only for you guys if you stick together, but it also makes life a lot simpler for any employer with more than say 20 employees in the same role. If individual contracts were a more desireable outcome for the AO or QF in general, they would have started AO on individual contracts, the QF LHR base would be all individual contracts and QF in general would have issued individual contracts to all and sundry! Dont beleieve the spin about that issue. It is an empty threat. There is no benefit to them doing it. Oh and they cant just chuck out the current EBA if there is no agreement reached. It continues till an agreement is met. Thats the law. If you cant get to a point where you agree, both sets of representatives end up in mediation or in front of the industrial relations comission who will decide for you!
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Cart Elevator,
You are probably right that they dont want us all on individual contracts as it would be hard to administer although they could give us all the same contract. They can however apply to have our EBA nullified , I have verified this with the IRC on the grounds of inability to reach agreement. Our future would be scary then !
You are probably right that they dont want us all on individual contracts as it would be hard to administer although they could give us all the same contract. They can however apply to have our EBA nullified , I have verified this with the IRC on the grounds of inability to reach agreement. Our future would be scary then !
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cabin scrag
Its difficult I know.
Hang in there, dont give it to them on a silver platter.
If you vote yes, they are going to continually walk all over you.
I got sucked into voting "yes" once at LH, never again! I had faith in the FAAA and in a naive way I thought our management had "morals and ethics", what a fool I was.
By voting yes you will also be giving management the bonuses they have been anticipating.
By voting "NO" your management will have to defer getting that new 4WD.
Hang in there, dont give it to them on a silver platter.
If you vote yes, they are going to continually walk all over you.
I got sucked into voting "yes" once at LH, never again! I had faith in the FAAA and in a naive way I thought our management had "morals and ethics", what a fool I was.
By voting yes you will also be giving management the bonuses they have been anticipating.
By voting "NO" your management will have to defer getting that new 4WD.
Last edited by cartexchange; 24th Jun 2005 at 10:38.
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Cabin Scrag
Every AO crew member has their own reasons for voting yes or no, however a no vote doesnt automatically mean you will all be placed onto contracts immediately.
An initial no vote will show the company that the crew do not accept the EBA in its current form and you have every right to reject the offer should you so desire. An EBA will not be nullified due to an initial no vote, all avenues to achieve a mutually satisfactory EBA must be exhausted before this can occur and it would be a last resort in the eyes of the IRC.
You may not achieve anything by voting no apart from sending a clear message to the company you are not happy but on the other hand you may find the company are willing to budge on some issues.
The way the EBA you are now voting on reads the company could put you all onto contracts at the expiry of the EBA if the yes vote gets up anyway so what have you got to loose.
AO crew should look at what a yes vote did to QF LH but at least QF LH crew have some protection in terms of caps on the number of overseas based crew, the process of redundancy which also effects overseas bases and the ability to negotiate for an EBA at the expiry of their current one. Are the same protections being offered to AO crew?
It may seem like you have no choice but you do have choices and whats the worst that can happen, the EBA is put back to you again in its current form and you vote it up or worst case you are put onto contracts, in the end your just bringing forward what will happen anyway by voting yes to the EBA.
I personally dont know enough about your EBA to say you should vote yes or no but my point is dont let the company railroad and threaten you.
Every AO crew member has their own reasons for voting yes or no, however a no vote doesnt automatically mean you will all be placed onto contracts immediately.
An initial no vote will show the company that the crew do not accept the EBA in its current form and you have every right to reject the offer should you so desire. An EBA will not be nullified due to an initial no vote, all avenues to achieve a mutually satisfactory EBA must be exhausted before this can occur and it would be a last resort in the eyes of the IRC.
You may not achieve anything by voting no apart from sending a clear message to the company you are not happy but on the other hand you may find the company are willing to budge on some issues.
The way the EBA you are now voting on reads the company could put you all onto contracts at the expiry of the EBA if the yes vote gets up anyway so what have you got to loose.
AO crew should look at what a yes vote did to QF LH but at least QF LH crew have some protection in terms of caps on the number of overseas based crew, the process of redundancy which also effects overseas bases and the ability to negotiate for an EBA at the expiry of their current one. Are the same protections being offered to AO crew?
It may seem like you have no choice but you do have choices and whats the worst that can happen, the EBA is put back to you again in its current form and you vote it up or worst case you are put onto contracts, in the end your just bringing forward what will happen anyway by voting yes to the EBA.
I personally dont know enough about your EBA to say you should vote yes or no but my point is dont let the company railroad and threaten you.
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From todays smh.com.au -
Quote ' As the Government is keen to point out, currently employed workers cannot be forced to move off an award or enterprise agreement on to an individual contract. '
Quote ' As the Government is keen to point out, currently employed workers cannot be forced to move off an award or enterprise agreement on to an individual contract. '
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For those of you still thinking of how to vote,
if you vote yes then the company will not negotiate with the faaa but if you vote no then the existing eba will operate.This means even if the company tries to nullify eba 1 they cannot make your conditions go backwards if a no vote has been registered.
if you vote yes you are opening pandoras box
if you vote yes then the company will not negotiate with the faaa but if you vote no then the existing eba will operate.This means even if the company tries to nullify eba 1 they cannot make your conditions go backwards if a no vote has been registered.
if you vote yes you are opening pandoras box
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I disagree, It is actually voting no that will open a pandoras box, with the Federal Government taking control of the Senate in just 3 days time and Industrial Relations on top of the adgenda Voting no leaves us vulnerable to new laws that could see us without the protection of an EBA at all. The exisisting EBA can be nullified by the IRC leaving us in no mans land. Under these circumstances a Yes vote is better for AO crew.
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Cabin Scrag,
if you vote no you remain under the protection of your existing EBA until agreement can be reached.
If agreement cannot be reached the Industrial Relations commission will rule.
Why on earth would you even contemplate a yes vote?
Jettlager
if you vote no you remain under the protection of your existing EBA until agreement can be reached.
If agreement cannot be reached the Industrial Relations commission will rule.
Why on earth would you even contemplate a yes vote?
Jettlager
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The statement that a yes vote means that the company wont negotiate with the FAAA is rubbish...
Clause 9 of the EBA 2 states clearly
9. Renegotiation of the agreement
The parties agree to commence negotiations 6 months prio to
the expiration of the agreement. the parties are committed to
completing negotiations on the new agreement prior to the
expiry of this agreement. the company shall continue to apply
the terms of this agreement to all employees covered by it
until the new agreement takes legal effect.
Clause 8 states that the parties bound are
(a) Australian Airlines
(b) The FAAA international division
For those of you who are still to vote.. dont make your decision only from what you read on this forum...
READ THE EBA in full
if you need anything clarified talk to the company and/or the FAAA and then vote accordingly
Cheers TW
Clause 9 of the EBA 2 states clearly
9. Renegotiation of the agreement
The parties agree to commence negotiations 6 months prio to
the expiration of the agreement. the parties are committed to
completing negotiations on the new agreement prior to the
expiry of this agreement. the company shall continue to apply
the terms of this agreement to all employees covered by it
until the new agreement takes legal effect.
Clause 8 states that the parties bound are
(a) Australian Airlines
(b) The FAAA international division
For those of you who are still to vote.. dont make your decision only from what you read on this forum...
READ THE EBA in full
if you need anything clarified talk to the company and/or the FAAA and then vote accordingly
Cheers TW
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TW, Sorry but its not rubbish ! I do not disagree with what you wrote, its just that in addition to that, the company can and will apply to the IRC to Cancel the agreement that you speak of because negotiaion has failed to resolve it. In 2 days time the Senate under Govt controls will not make it any better quite the contrary. If you dont beleive the company can apply to have the agreement nullified, call the IRC and ask them. They wont allow us to operate on an expired eba forever, and 6 months is more than enough proof to show it isnt working.
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If you vote NO ,then the company cannot make you work longer or for less pay,you are protected by law.
If this were not the case,every employer would just refuse to negotiate the next eba then dissolve the current aggreement.
If you vote YES then you are giving the company exactly what they want,unlimited access to cheap overseas crew on contracts.
You have to wonder why a previuos post asks for crew to check with the company or the faaa for details.It would seem the faaa has some something in common with the company here.Something is not right.the faaa is not representing QF longhaul anymore and they are not looking after AO crew either
If this were not the case,every employer would just refuse to negotiate the next eba then dissolve the current aggreement.
If you vote YES then you are giving the company exactly what they want,unlimited access to cheap overseas crew on contracts.
You have to wonder why a previuos post asks for crew to check with the company or the faaa for details.It would seem the faaa has some something in common with the company here.Something is not right.the faaa is not representing QF longhaul anymore and they are not looking after AO crew either
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Lowerlobe,
You say if we vote no they cannot make us work longer for less money. They are not asking us to wok longer and if we vote no we dont get the 9% rise so that doesnt make sense.
If we dont vote Yes the company will not go back to the FAAA to renegotiate, they havent budged for 6 months so they arent about to budge now.
A NO vote wont stop the overseas bases it will just leave us on collective agreements and no negotiations thru the FAAA .A Yes vote is the safest way for us as the end result is the same regarding OS bases.
You say if we vote no they cannot make us work longer for less money. They are not asking us to wok longer and if we vote no we dont get the 9% rise so that doesnt make sense.
If we dont vote Yes the company will not go back to the FAAA to renegotiate, they havent budged for 6 months so they arent about to budge now.
A NO vote wont stop the overseas bases it will just leave us on collective agreements and no negotiations thru the FAAA .A Yes vote is the safest way for us as the end result is the same regarding OS bases.
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The only people voting yes are the 'clucky' female crew who want to get pregnant and spit out kids in the next three years then resign.
The new EBA provides better conditions for maternity leave and they will obviously be voting yes because they will have resigned by the time the new EBA expires and we are left without the union to negotiate on our behalf.
AO will be forced to negotiate with us if we vote no.
If only they had put a cap on the foreign base numbers and had not have added the clause regarding non negotiation with FAAA for EBA3 they would have got a yes vote. They pushed us too far and now the IRC will show them how un Australian they are being.
Gordon better stop construction on his new 2.2 million dollar house immediately.
The new EBA provides better conditions for maternity leave and they will obviously be voting yes because they will have resigned by the time the new EBA expires and we are left without the union to negotiate on our behalf.
AO will be forced to negotiate with us if we vote no.
If only they had put a cap on the foreign base numbers and had not have added the clause regarding non negotiation with FAAA for EBA3 they would have got a yes vote. They pushed us too far and now the IRC will show them how un Australian they are being.
Gordon better stop construction on his new 2.2 million dollar house immediately.