jettlager

Thanks Easternboy,

What I wouldnt give to be a fly on the wall [without the residual spraying] in the first twelve months of the operation.

Jettlager

QF skywalker

Jetlagger,

I wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall also...however, I believe it is for different reasons to why you would like to observe.

Regional airline crew are very unique people. Being able to run a cabin on your own is not easy. When you fly solo you DO EVERYTHING. Not just meal service and PA
s off by heart....but...dealing several times a day with ground staff, catering,tech crew,baggage handlers and engineers just to name a few.

This ex regional/SH f/a will probably make a very good CSS. His/Her skills of time management, complaint resolution, CRM and awareness of what is happening out in the cabin would be 10/10.

Until you yourself have flown solo you would not realise how valuable these crew are to multi-crew operations and cabin management positions.

Cheers
QF SKY

SydGirl

The ex S/H FA to whom you are referring to happens to be a friend of mine.

She is an EXCELLENT FA and will make a wonderful CSS. She has past flying experience behind her as well as a training/checking background. She has more talent in her little finger than many of the "experienced" CSMs have in their whole body.

Don't judge people on their seniority number. She will go far.

SG

jettlager

Our Perth based friend is about to take on the most demanding longhaul CC position by far.

She will be managing the performance of seven crew, the largest, most stressful and understaffed cabin, cultural differences [both passenger and crew] all at a time when for the most part her body and everyone elses will be screaming for sleep.All this whilst she carries out the same duties as the rest of the FA's.

Good FA's are responsible for managing the performance of one person. Themselves. That, if you dont mind me saying, is easy. REALLY EASY.
They do NOT automatically translate into good PEOPLE managers.
My experience might suggest that very often, the inverse is true.

Maintaining her own high standards whilst managing both up and down, AND getting the most/best out of seven others under unique, difficult and unfamiliar circumstances is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Passenger expectations will be naturally far higher than she is used to.

QF have traditionally required two years longhaul experience for this role for a good reason.

For her own sake and sanity I hope she has maturity/life experience to make up for her non operational experience. She'll need all of it, and some.

Flying domestically solo with a handful of passengers is so far removed from her next role as to be, in effect, a completely different job.

Nothing personal but those who think otherwise really are either kidding themselves or seriously uninformed.

Jettlager

P.S. Syd Girl, Im sure she'll workout in the end but she sure is jumping in the deep end having NEVER worked on a 744.
Makes you wonder doesnt it just how serious QF is about its service standards???
Let her know for me will you, that all flights southbound EX LHR are seriously oversold at the moment.
Hers wont be the first, or last, I'm sure, 5 hour meal service.
If she is smart, she'll make the Thais her new best friends.

SydGirl

jettlager your last post is written by someone that has clearly never seen or experienced what a regional FA has to do every day.

I personally do not call a SYD-CBR with 36 pax and one FA "Flying domestically solo with a handful of passengers". Regional is nothing like domestic, and even less like international.

Ask any of your colleagues who have been regional how hard they worked. There are a few LH colleagues of mine who were regional and they are the most humble people I know, grateful for a job where they are actually allowed to have a rest! There are a few ex-regional FAs here on these boards (and many current), why not ask them about their roles, responsibilities, difficulties and issues? You may be quite surprised.

I'm not having a stab at LH. I realise their role is important and has different stresses than other positions. The CSS role is different to that of a FA, with that I agree. The position is one of a Customer Service Supervisor, at shorthaul they don't even HAVE this position, it's Second Senior on the same aircraft, and adopted by the most senior FA on the day. Difficult? Well that's a matter of opinion and how well the individual can deal with the tasks they have.

Jettlager it seems like you're unhappy that a SH FA with no LH experience got the position. Maybe, just maybe.. she was the best person for the position from the people they had. She should be given a fair go, and given an opportunity to prove herself. If she fails, then you are welcome to say "I told you so".

SG

hostiegirl

jesus christ you call us the winging poms some of you should listen to yourselfs it seems some (not all)want the heathrow base to fail before it's even given a chance give the new lady a chance to manage the base before you shoot her down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i've flown 6 times from london to oz as a full paying passenger once with b.a and once with qantas 4 times with singapore airlines i say no more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!.their customer service/onboard service is 2nd to none.

jettlager

Syd Girl,

the point of my post is not to denigrate the capabilities or qualities of your friend.

One does however have to question how serious QF is in maintaining service standards with QFUK given that the most demanding role on board has been given to someone who has NEVER worked on a 744.

Would SQ do the same ?
Their FA's dont even get anywhere near their longhaul operation until they have spent months bouncing around Asia.

As a longhaul CSM I can tell you that the mechanics of the 744 cabin operation are run by the CSS.

Brand spanking new "fanks guvna" FA's will be looking to HER for advise, leadership, support and direction.

One, not up to the task, whether it be through inexperience, incompetance or neglect does not make for a quality product, satisfied passengers or happy/satisfied crew.

Full aircraft, inexperienced galley operators and onboard managers with little/no experience...................It will get ugly. Nothing personal again, just the nature of the beast.

Support from QF will be non existant as they will offer nothing in the way of any meaningful training. That might cost $.

I have no doubt that the roles and responsibilities of a regional FA are challenging but so are those of a longhaul CSS operating on our understaffed 744s and they are entirely DIFFERENT beasts.

Jettlager

GalleyHag

jettlager

While I always enjoy reading your posts and the contribution you make to prune on this occassion you are just plain wrong.

I dont believe it is your fault, its just the culture of LH crew, you truely believe you are the only crew that are understaffed, overworked and underpaid and are the only ones that can operate a 744 effectively.

Tell me what is difference from someone who has never operated a 744 becoming a CSS to someome never having operated a 333 becoming a CSM and flying up to HKG, SIN, PVG etc? A regional flight attendant can apply to become a CSM the day they progress to short haul and there are some ex regionals that became CSM's within 4 months of joining short haul. If they are good enough to become a short haul CSM flying to Asia why would they not be good enough to be a CSS?

This particular person I know and I agree 110% with SydGirl, she will have absolutely no trouble dealing with the role of CSS and some of the LH crew going over to LHR will be pleasantly surprised with her ability to undertake the role.

As an ex regional I have never worked so hard and been so exhausted as what I was working with Eastern. I have never had to deal with a lot of the situations that I experienced at Eastern within Qantas and certainly never ALONE. Regional crew are the hardest working and least paid crew of all within the Qantas group and they deserve a little more respect especially from a LH CSM such as yourself.

firepussy

Interesting to note that most people being critical of JETLAGER are themselves either regional or shorthaul crew whose only experience on a jumbo is as a passenger.No one is doubting the persons enthusiasm or capacity for work.It takes anyone a couple of years at least to become a competent CSS.Developing responses and indeed anticipating problems both from pax or crew is the name of the game.This only comes with experience.Don`t misunderstand me ...I wish her well,but without other experienced crew to assist her she will have her work cutout...A baptism of fire.
I wish all the crew on the LHR base well but the first twelve months is going to be difficult particularly when you throw in jetlag and fatigue.It takes time and experience to get used to all these things.
Again I say ..GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!

GalleyHag

So because she hasnt operated a 747-400 she would have no idea according to you firepussy even though an A330-300 carries only 60 less pax's. What is so different about the "Jumbo", could it be the upper deck maybe?

The only reason short haul and regional crew have their backs up are due to Jetlaggers comments regarding regional crew.

As I have said before if QF think a regional is fit to become a CSM on the very day they join short haul, I see no problem with this crew member becoming a CSS and undertaking the role as she would if she choose to become a short haul CSM. Apart from the jetlag I cant see the jobs are all that different, except of course she will be operating on a "Jumbo" with a whole 60 more pax's.

Wayouthere

Yup what an interesting read. It seems that some know plenty and some wish they did.
It is interesting to see that so many people believe that if you have worked on one kite, you have worked on them all... Wrong.
I have to agree with Jetlagger, the Jumbo is just that, big. Problems are amplified. When they are small they are big and when they are big.... well you fill in the rest.
I have heard on many occasions that a trained monkey could do the job, funny ive never seen one on board but i do have a penchant for bananas.
In the not to distant future we will all be privy to just how easy or hard the role of the CSS on board will be. That is of course if those who believe it is a simple transition get back to this site and tell us all out here how easy it really is.
Anyway love ya stuff.
Copyalater.

QF skywalker

Jetlagger and Firepussy,

When I flew regional on Dash 8's ( 6 sector days on a/c with no APU btw ) it was hard. I now fly long haul myself (just like you do) and I would rather fly back of the clock than be faced with what I used to do - I really don't think you understand how hard regional crew work. They could do the job of CSM's quite easily with some cross training.......they can even do their PA's off by heart !....not out of the book which you guys treat like a bible as soon as it is announcement time.

One day I had a L/H CSM on board who travelled up the coast with me on a few sectors as the direct flight was full. This L/H CSM was other 'Qantas group company employee friendly' and shook my hand when he hopped off. He said he had never seen someone work so hard and efficient on an aircraft. I believe this was the type of CSM that realises that 'size isn't everything' and just because it is a 744 it doesn't mean that you work harder or have any BETTER skills than others in the QF group.

I agree that this new ex s/h come CSS will at first have some difficulty but the crew and pax that he/she will be dealing with is no different to what others on the QF group deal with. Remember...to hop on your 744 ex SYD they may have connected and have started off in Mildura on a DH8 then from MEL to SYD in a 738 so it's not the pax or the crew - it's just learning a new way to do things ( similar to what peter morrissey tried to tell all the long haulers to do with their hairstyles and make-up when the new uniform was released). It's not just the LHR that will have inexperienced Galley operators - this is a daily occurrence at L/H with fixed termers and at S/H with MAM casuals.

There will be some mistakes initially ex LHR base....but..I have also seen some mighty mistakes made ex SYD with 'experienced' crew aboard who should know better.

SydGirl

Frankly, I applaud her for standing up and giving it a go. I agree it will be a challenge in many ways, not the least being to adapt to living in a new country. Whether she comes from SH, Regional or Timbuctoo is really irrelevant. Don't pass judgement on her before she's even started.

Jetlager mentioned that these crew will receive no support QF (shock horror!) so it will definitely be interesting times ahead with a lot of challenges for those going over. As for the way SQ does things, well comparing QF to SQ is like comparing a Hyundai to a Bentley... nowhere near in the same ballpark.

SG

jettlager

"As for the way SQ does things, well comparing QF to SQ is like comparing a Hyundai to a Bentley... nowhere near in the same ballpark."

Which is of course, the point, I am trying to make.

Given that "some" at QF still wish to compete/compare with the aformentioned carrier, doesnt the fashion of the whole QFUK startup fly in the face of this endeavour?

Before our sensitive friends jump on me again, please take a moment to consider that my concerns are in relation to their lack of experience and familiarity with the Longhaul product and the 744 operation.

On board training will work with 1,2 or perhaps 3 brand new crew.
This operation will be effectively starting with a plane load....................................

So, would SQ [to use a benchmark] operate in this fashion ?????

Me thinks [knows] not.

Jettlager

P.S. No shortage of Australian QFUKers bouncing around LHR at the moment most completely clueless when it comes to the P/C product.

Whats a return P/C airfare Syd-LHR worth these days.............?

SydGirl

jettlager (sorry just realised I've spelt your username incorrectly in every one of my posts oops!),

What you just wrote is EXACTLY right. QF cannot compete with SQ on the same ground, it's just not possible. SQ is a premium quality carrier with lots and lots of $$$ to throw around, more favourable labour laws (their CSM equivalents must retire at age 35, if that were QF then there would be hardly any CSMs left!)

If QF seriously think they can compete with SQ on the same level ground then they are totally deluded.

The ONLY reason QF are starting up the LHR base is because it's cheap. It is for absolutely no other reason at all. They are also extremely clever in allowing current crew to transfer over there, do you think the Aussie based permanent positions will be filled while they are gone? I think NOT.

Having said that, it's only fair to let LHR get up and running before we poo poo it and pass judgement on their customer service (or lack thereof). There is still a lot of talent going over there, so let's see what they can make of it.

SG


PS. Not sure how much that return P/C airfare is, all I know is that it's too much!

q--tee

jetlagger, darling .... you obviously dont see it realistically..

I have operated 707, 747/sp-200-300-400-ER, 767/200-300, and now the dodgy A330/300 ... the one thing that makes a good CSS or CSM is not about the aircraft type... it is about their people management skills. A 747 is nothing but a 767 with a few more pax and a few more crew (and an upper deck).... a CSS or CSM is not hindered by an aircraft type.... some would argue that the 744 is the easiest for a CSM to work on ( i would and, I am a CSM !!!!).

As for CSS, yes a hard job, but other aircraft need organisational and people management skills too...not just the 747... just cos someone has not operated an aircraft type before does not mean the skills of people and pax management will be any different .... maybe the issues compounded, but not the management skills required.

the one thing the new CSS and CSMs in LHR will have in their favour is the lack of obnoxious and negative crew from SYD ... and there are a ton of them....

most LHR crew will want to be based there or will be enthusiastic new-hires

hostiegirl

q--tee i agree with you 100% some people have been in the job far too long are far too negitive and do nothing but moan it's the same in the uk.i've been flying only 8 years i still love my job and enjoy going to work!!.people skills/management skills cannot be taught they are developed with experience over time learning a new a/c type is the easy bit!!!.bet your well respected by all your crews

jettlager

Syd Girl,

"if QF seriously think they can compete with SQ on the same level ground then they are totally deluded."

I'll be sure to let lisley grint and the smiling assassin know that, next time I'm beaten with the graph indicating pax satisfaction comparisons between carriers.

Thanks but no appologies needed as I'm not the sensitive type.


qtee........dear,

please read my posts again so that you might be able understand that my concerns with the QFUK startup relate to FAMILIARITY with the AC type and longhaul product not the individuals and their ABILITY.

Any airline who took seriously it's reputation for service would not subject its "flagship" route and their passengers to such an "en masse" group of well meaning yet completely inexperienced [type/product] crew.

QF's decision to start up this way maximises their savings but the product will suffer and it WILL be ugly onboard until all are up to speed. However well meaning the operators.

The whole START UP is just ANOTHER cynical example of performance bonus's at ALL costs and those many THOUSANDS of us at the coal face who care have seen far, far, too much of it.

A quick look a the D & G forum will give further insights from OTHER operational departments on the tragedy that is befalling this iconic and once proud, company.

"most LHR crew will want to be based there or will be enthusiastic new-hires".

Ah............um........not the ones I spoke to in LHR.
Two 11 months Australian based contractors who are going to QFUK for two years as it is the ONLY way for an AUSTRALIAN to secure a full time job.

They most definately DO NOT want to be there and 10-1 says that there are many more like them.

QANTAS - A once proud company being disemboweled by bastards.

Jettlager

P.S.Some useful synonyms for "disembowel" follow-
loot, pillage, plunder, ransack, ravage, rifle, sack

SydGirl

LG's success rate with airlines is not good so far. The last airline she told could compete on the same playing field is now no longer with us.

They give you the figures they want you to have. Maybe you should request a breakdown of expenditure by each airline on their inflight product. You would see that SQ's product and service standards are directly proportional to the amount of money they are investing in their quality product.

Of course, you'll never see those figures because that would denigrate the point that QF is trying to make. This point being that you need to work harder for less money!

QF is evolving from an aero club into a business. Shocking I know!

Back to the original topic. London base is there for a reason. The crew voted in an EBA that allowed the base to form, the company will save squillions. Whether the crew in LHR are fabulous or torturous is irrelevant. Your peers voted for it, now deal with it.

SG

captainrats

How well you perform in your chosen vocation is dependant on
1.Aptitude
2.Training
3.Experience
4.The application of all of the above over time
If any one of these four criteria is lacking performance will be sub optimal.