What BA cabin crew think of pilots
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Pilots should concentrate on running a safe and on time ship and perhaps leave the cabin to the professionals doing the job in the cabin.
As long as the cabin is attached to the rest of the aircraft (fusleage, wings, spars, engines, stabilisers vertical AND horizontal, landing gear and, sorry, the cockpit too), well, you'll just have to accpept that the capt is in charge of the aircraft, the cockpit, the cabin, the airframe and ALL the goings-on inside of, including yours. Sorry but that's how it is.
If you want to be in charge, do what several CC I know did: Stop spending all your bread on woven shirts and rave parties and get a licence, IR Rating, ATPL subjects, all the systems endorsements, and 1000s of hours experience, all without "needing" anyone else but you on the aircraft. Then you can be in charge. Easy. Anyone can do it.
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May be Pilots should concentrate on running a safe and on time ship and perhaps leave the cabin to the professionals doing the job in the cabin.
I still can't quite believe the quoted statement. The day a pilot has to ignore what is going on anywhere on his aeroplane is the day I leave aviation for good!
Last edited by Notso Fantastic; 19th Nov 2004 at 14:09.
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If I am not mistaken, this is yet another 'airline myth' fable that has been doing the airline rounds for years! Stick any story that comes through the internet into snopes.com and you will find that they invariably come up phony. This "eye drops poison etc etc"(always with the least popular crew members- for cabin crew read Flight Deck- for maximum impact) has been doing the rounds in my flying career since 1970. It is told around so often that people often actually believe they were there.
Quite simply lad.......you been had! Nice story. all that's missing is an element of truth! But you will come back and say whoever told you it was actually there! Yeah yeah
your own words slightly edited....words can be interpreted and manipulated to one advantage or disadvantage it doesn t mean it is true or what is said did actually happened or would happen.
Quite simply lad.......you been had! Nice story. all that's missing is an element of truth! But you will come back and say whoever told you it was actually there! Yeah yeah
your own words slightly edited....words can be interpreted and manipulated to one advantage or disadvantage it doesn t mean it is true or what is said did actually happened or would happen.
Last edited by nicecsd; 19th Nov 2004 at 14:59.
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One Ball said
........Nobody is disputing that. But Nice's assertions are correct in so far as the CSD/SCCM is the guy/gal running the cabin. Cabin Service is dictated and run by said person and this person is operationally in charge from a Service viewpoint. Of course, this can be over ridden by the Captain or FO if it in anyway becomes a safety issue. Its a matter of recognition on both sides of the door that one should let the other do their job (I am stating the bleeding obvious n'est-ce pas?
)
As long as the cabin is attached to the rest of the aircraft (fusleage, wings, spars, engines, stabilisers vertical AND horizontal, landing gear and, sorry, the cockpit too), well, you'll just have to accpept that the capt is in charge of the aircraft, the cockpit, the cabin, the airframe and ALL the goings-on inside of, including yours. Sorry but that's how it is.
)
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NiceCSD- that's not nice. They were not my words- I was actually talking about a daft fable of a Captain allegedly in the toilet and unable to get out because he was supposed to not know the way the toilet door opened on his own aeroplane- likely or what! But we're not talking about that- we're talking about an action that I have been frequently assured to me does go on on aeroplanes when there is a nasty beef with the flight deck, and now people have been daft enough to put it in print, it is an opportunity to try and stop these idiots ever having the chance to do it again!
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??? Who, where, when, what are you talking about?
It has never happened and probably will never happen it is just a silly remark made by silly people in a silly Forum.
Your conspiracy theory is founded on hearsay and carefully selected and manipulated negative quotes.
It has never happened and probably will never happen it is just a silly remark made by silly people in a silly Forum.
Your conspiracy theory is founded on hearsay and carefully selected and manipulated negative quotes.
Last edited by nicecsd; 20th Nov 2004 at 20:15.
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Blame it on the CSD's
For example, just after the Concorde crash, a stewardess enters the 747 flightdeck (for the flight time) during the departure brief at Boston.
Copilots leg, short runway, heavy a/c with a large V1/VR split.
The copilot asks the Captain his actions with an engine fire after V1, but before VR. The response from the Captain was that he would advance the three remaining engines to full power, continue to accelerate to VR and then monitor the rotation and climbout prior to the Engine Fire Checklist.
The stewardess left the flight deck disgusted with this "idiot of a Captain" who was "going to do a Concorde and take off with an engine on fire".
She approached the CSD who suggested he totally agreed with her concerns and suggested that she should write to his Chief Pilot to have him retrained.
That is exactly what she did!
What would you have expected the CSD to have done? Perhaps as the "onboard manager" he could have taken the Captain to one side and put him right rather than suggesting that the girl write to his boss and get him into a lot of trouble.
As it was the Cheif Pilot interviewed the Captain. No action was taken.
What action he took with regard to the girl we will never know.
Perhaps CC during their training at Cranebank should be given just a little insight into how easy it is to fly a 747, and how simple it is to cope with the odd engine fire.
For example, just after the Concorde crash, a stewardess enters the 747 flightdeck (for the flight time) during the departure brief at Boston.
Copilots leg, short runway, heavy a/c with a large V1/VR split.
The copilot asks the Captain his actions with an engine fire after V1, but before VR. The response from the Captain was that he would advance the three remaining engines to full power, continue to accelerate to VR and then monitor the rotation and climbout prior to the Engine Fire Checklist.
The stewardess left the flight deck disgusted with this "idiot of a Captain" who was "going to do a Concorde and take off with an engine on fire".
She approached the CSD who suggested he totally agreed with her concerns and suggested that she should write to his Chief Pilot to have him retrained.
That is exactly what she did!
What would you have expected the CSD to have done? Perhaps as the "onboard manager" he could have taken the Captain to one side and put him right rather than suggesting that the girl write to his boss and get him into a lot of trouble.
As it was the Cheif Pilot interviewed the Captain. No action was taken.
What action he took with regard to the girl we will never know.
Perhaps CC during their training at Cranebank should be given just a little insight into how easy it is to fly a 747, and how simple it is to cope with the odd engine fire.
Last edited by woodpecker; 19th Nov 2004 at 18:16.
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I'm usually a lurker, but on this occasion I thought I'd share my thoughts with you.
I've flown with the CC from 4 airlines in my fairly brief career, and almost without exception, the attitude of crew at BA is awful. They are only interested in talking on their mobiles on the crew bus, they are only interested in rushing the service so they can have longer rest, they treat the "Nigels" with utter contempt.
I've not been at this place too long so I don't have that much to lose, but frankly I'd rather leave BA than put up with another 30 years of distain from my colleagues. Oh, and who ever said Flight Ops management are to blame . . . spot on. Combined Flt Ops and Cabin Service is the only solution.
Not heard from Virgin, and still hoping Cathay might be interested. NiceCSD, I'm sorry and I'm sure you're the great 1%, but the other 99% let you down badly.
Off to the pub.
Cheers
I've flown with the CC from 4 airlines in my fairly brief career, and almost without exception, the attitude of crew at BA is awful. They are only interested in talking on their mobiles on the crew bus, they are only interested in rushing the service so they can have longer rest, they treat the "Nigels" with utter contempt.
I've not been at this place too long so I don't have that much to lose, but frankly I'd rather leave BA than put up with another 30 years of distain from my colleagues. Oh, and who ever said Flight Ops management are to blame . . . spot on. Combined Flt Ops and Cabin Service is the only solution.
Not heard from Virgin, and still hoping Cathay might be interested. NiceCSD, I'm sorry and I'm sure you're the great 1%, but the other 99% let you down badly.
Off to the pub.
Cheers
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Hmmm, it would appear that big airways really does have a problem with their 'Cabin Captains'.
Nothing that a 'don't come Monday' letter won't cure...to replace the malcontent CC who 'think' they are in charge...this is...if they think at all.
And from some of the daft comments here, many CC don't think, just concentrate on the wrong time of the month...boys and girls.
Nothing that a 'don't come Monday' letter won't cure...to replace the malcontent CC who 'think' they are in charge...this is...if they think at all.
And from some of the daft comments here, many CC don't think, just concentrate on the wrong time of the month...boys and girls.
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So what exactly inspired this vitriol? What exactly did the flight crew do to get those responses from the the cc community?
No smoke without fire after all?
I am so glad I work for an airline where we all get on!
No smoke without fire after all?
I am so glad I work for an airline where we all get on!
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I am sorry to disappoint you (jezabelle) but despite the smoke there is not going to be a fire.
I still believe BA is a great Company to work for and to travel with as a passenger.
In my limited experience (28 yrs) I have met and had the honour to work and socialise with an immense number of great people that on a daily basis make their business to get on and understand each other and at the same time offer and deliver an enviable safe, caring and reliable product to our passengers.
A few negative remarks on a anon. forum wont change my attitude towards my job , the majority of my colleagues and or my Company.
LOL.
I am glad you are lucky to have found the perfect Company to work for (since Aug 04??!!) and at the same time I know that I am working for a Company with an heart and an (the majority)incredibly talented and caring people.
Life at the top is never easy.
I still believe BA is a great Company to work for and to travel with as a passenger.
In my limited experience (28 yrs) I have met and had the honour to work and socialise with an immense number of great people that on a daily basis make their business to get on and understand each other and at the same time offer and deliver an enviable safe, caring and reliable product to our passengers.
A few negative remarks on a anon. forum wont change my attitude towards my job , the majority of my colleagues and or my Company.
LOL.
I am glad you are lucky to have found the perfect Company to work for (since Aug 04??!!) and at the same time I know that I am working for a Company with an heart and an (the majority)incredibly talented and caring people.
Life at the top is never easy.
Last edited by nicecsd; 20th Nov 2004 at 00:15.
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What was said earlier about alot of hearsay and the rest is probably very true. . .
I work on Eurofleet at LHR , and cannot identify really , with any of the problems being raised..
Like any industry , you'll probably get the 10% ish of unesirables among cabin crew and pilots alike.
Everyone in any airline has had alot to contend with in the last 3 years, and yet from what i have seen most have seized upon the situation and tried to make the best of it.
Certainly (and i can only talk for 757/767 and Airbus) , just about all the pilots i fly with are great guys and work together as a team with the crew whilst maintaining the utmost professionalism in the flight deck.
Yes , of course you come across the odd misery, but the same can be said of an equal number of cabin crew!
I think you will find this anywhere.
Any comments made on the BASSA site should be taken with a pinch of salt and are probably written under a veil of anonymity in the heat of the moment...
There is the odd precious pilot or just plain miserable - but they should get a grip on things , realise their position and also understand how bad an effect this has on CRM , as they hostility makes them unapproachable .
Similarly , some cabin crew ought to be a little more respectful to the flight crew , and recognise the importance of a good balanced working relationship
I work on Eurofleet at LHR , and cannot identify really , with any of the problems being raised..
Like any industry , you'll probably get the 10% ish of unesirables among cabin crew and pilots alike.
Everyone in any airline has had alot to contend with in the last 3 years, and yet from what i have seen most have seized upon the situation and tried to make the best of it.
Certainly (and i can only talk for 757/767 and Airbus) , just about all the pilots i fly with are great guys and work together as a team with the crew whilst maintaining the utmost professionalism in the flight deck.
Yes , of course you come across the odd misery, but the same can be said of an equal number of cabin crew!
I think you will find this anywhere.
Any comments made on the BASSA site should be taken with a pinch of salt and are probably written under a veil of anonymity in the heat of the moment...
There is the odd precious pilot or just plain miserable - but they should get a grip on things , realise their position and also understand how bad an effect this has on CRM , as they hostility makes them unapproachable .
Similarly , some cabin crew ought to be a little more respectful to the flight crew , and recognise the importance of a good balanced working relationship
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Woodpecker said
OH PLEEEEZE!!!!!!
Come on everyone....this is bordering on the ridiculous...this insinuates a level of intelligence and common sense bordering on mentally retarded (as he braces himself for the obvious barrage of dumb comments) This is exaggeration in the extreme. With the utmost of respect to the stewardess, I doubt that she would have fully understood any of the above quoted departure briefing and as for a (BA?) CSD that suggested such a course of action as to write to the Chief Pilot? Its a as simple as this....it just doesn't happen like that - Nice help me out here - any CSD's first point of contact in such a misunderstanding would be to have a friendly chat with the Skipper to clarify.
Anti-Ice ...spot on mate...nicely said and 100% agree with your synopsis of the situation.
Dog Funnel .... I imagine your CRM skills are your best asset? There's a lot of "camp queens" out there (I quote) ... I imagine you get along famously with them?
The copilot asks the Captain his actions with an engine fire after V1, but before VR. The response from the Captain was that he would advance the three remaining engines to full power, continue to accelerate to VR and then monitor the rotation and climbout prior to the Engine Fire Checklist.
The stewardess left the flight deck disgusted with this "idiot of a Captain" who was "going to do a Concorde and take off with an engine on fire".
Come on everyone....this is bordering on the ridiculous...this insinuates a level of intelligence and common sense bordering on mentally retarded (as he braces himself for the obvious barrage of dumb comments) This is exaggeration in the extreme. With the utmost of respect to the stewardess, I doubt that she would have fully understood any of the above quoted departure briefing and as for a (BA?) CSD that suggested such a course of action as to write to the Chief Pilot? Its a as simple as this....it just doesn't happen like that - Nice help me out here - any CSD's first point of contact in such a misunderstanding would be to have a friendly chat with the Skipper to clarify.
Anti-Ice ...spot on mate...nicely said and 100% agree with your synopsis of the situation.
Dog Funnel .... I imagine your CRM skills are your best asset? There's a lot of "camp queens" out there (I quote) ... I imagine you get along famously with them?
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One ball :
I was saying that most cabin crew do have better educational qualifications than flight deck. Lots of crew now have degrees... Yes pilots have flying skills but some of them have just got 4 grade d cse's and nothing else...
and i'm pretty pissed you called me a half wit... i'm doing a job i love and i've got a degree what have you got.. a license?
I was saying that most cabin crew do have better educational qualifications than flight deck. Lots of crew now have degrees... Yes pilots have flying skills but some of them have just got 4 grade d cse's and nothing else...
and i'm pretty pissed you called me a half wit... i'm doing a job i love and i've got a degree what have you got.. a license?
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Well gee, there is one way to settle all this then.
Pack a few senior CC in a van and bus 'em down to Cranebank, whereupon they are strapped into the LHS of a sim, and given an engine failure at rotation, together with an essential power failure, so they have to use the standby instruments for a demanding DP...all the while having the co-pilot laugh his socks off at the performance.
A license to fly the aeroplane is required, a degree is not.
Simple as that.
And for pilots...leave the CC alone, to bask in their so-called glory.
SQ had it right in the old days (maybe now as well)...hire CC on a four year contract at age 19, and boot 'em out at the end.
New faces are a welcome commodity for the punters.
Pack a few senior CC in a van and bus 'em down to Cranebank, whereupon they are strapped into the LHS of a sim, and given an engine failure at rotation, together with an essential power failure, so they have to use the standby instruments for a demanding DP...all the while having the co-pilot laugh his socks off at the performance.
A license to fly the aeroplane is required, a degree is not.
Simple as that.
And for pilots...leave the CC alone, to bask in their so-called glory.
SQ had it right in the old days (maybe now as well)...hire CC on a four year contract at age 19, and boot 'em out at the end.
New faces are a welcome commodity for the punters.
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Twisted DD- are you ever twisted! And hung-up:
Quite a statement. Extensively researched? Not really commentworthy- you are displaying the neurosis that leads to the very nonsense we are talking about here! We needed a bit of levity- anything to try and inject a bit of humour into this awful subject of cabin crew bragging about poisoning their fellow crew members!
I was saying that most cabin crew do have better educational qualifications than flight deck. Lots of crew now have degrees
Lots of crew now have degrees... Yes pilots have flying skills but some of them have just got 4 grade d cse's and nothing else
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Thank you to Finals19 and Anti-ice for reinfoncing my belief that despite a few nasty individuals (often with their own hidden agenda and personal problems)there is hope and in general common sense and fair play at the end triumph over bigotry and, or plain stupidity.
Thanks for the entairtainement and looking forward to the next heated debate
Thanks for the entairtainement and looking forward to the next heated debate
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Dungfunnel.............
For the record: I cannot recall the last time I was told that I didn't have a sense of humour...on the contrary. Your post came across as possibly demeaning to the "pink brigade" or whatever wording you used, and I was merely pointing that out. I certainly don't think I am a "straightophobe" (???!!) either (or even a homophobe) - that is not something that would've worked out very well during my six years as crew. So lets calm down a bit and try to lose the near personal insults. That was not the intention on my part anyway.
On another note, some of the best trips I ever had were with FD that had previously been JJ's..i.e. worked as CC for a while after graduating from the cadet scheme. Just goes to show that a little empathy goes a long way
The story i posted here was told to me by ,guess what?, a self confessed raging queen who knew i would find it entertaining, go figure, and knock that staightophobe (New word) cc chip off your shoulder while your at it.
On another note, some of the best trips I ever had were with FD that had previously been JJ's..i.e. worked as CC for a while after graduating from the cadet scheme. Just goes to show that a little empathy goes a long way