QF Regional Crew Career Progression
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QF Regional Crew Career Progression
So with QF recruiting people all over the shop - long haul strike breakers, shortlisters, MAM recruiting like mad and the possiblity of MAM staff going for permanent roles.. do those in the know think that QF will once again activate the Jet* / Qantaslink Career Progression document and take some more FA's from the smaller companies?? or is once already this year enough??
Any thoughts anyone??
Any thoughts anyone??
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Hi...
Well as far as I know, QF do take career progression still, probably train with the strikebreakers but are already on their permanent employment. QF regionals start accumilating their seniority once the start in QantasLink/Eastern/Sunstate. Not sure about Jetstar flight attendants? Being a flight attendant with NJS/QantasLink, we get no progression and have to apply like everyone else from the start. I thought each ground school needed to have a small number of QF regional FAs through progression?
As far as I know, MAM casuals were only made permanent in the PER base to quickly get it up and running in order to get flight attendants quickly in PER. Apart from that, I'm sure they are not given the permanency opportunity.
And by the way, can anyone tell me what its like working for MAM? How many days a month you work, conditions, pay... Open for correction with my post!?!
Well as far as I know, QF do take career progression still, probably train with the strikebreakers but are already on their permanent employment. QF regionals start accumilating their seniority once the start in QantasLink/Eastern/Sunstate. Not sure about Jetstar flight attendants? Being a flight attendant with NJS/QantasLink, we get no progression and have to apply like everyone else from the start. I thought each ground school needed to have a small number of QF regional FAs through progression?
As far as I know, MAM casuals were only made permanent in the PER base to quickly get it up and running in order to get flight attendants quickly in PER. Apart from that, I'm sure they are not given the permanency opportunity.
And by the way, can anyone tell me what its like working for MAM? How many days a month you work, conditions, pay... Open for correction with my post!?!
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QF normally only take Career Progression schools through when linked to External Permanent Full Time recruitment into the Short Haul division.
Over the last couple of years, given the increase in MAM casuals (reducing the need for recruiting full time crew), the FAAA has lobbied (and has been winning...so far) in encouraging QF Short Haul to take Career Progression schools linked to the number of casual positions being introduced into Short Haul.
Normally, there is no limit on the number of people from the regionals they may take in any one year - again, this depends on the operational requirements and budget for increasing the number of permanent full time crew in Short Haul (15 from Eastern, 12 from Sunstate and 8 from Jetstar). Jetstar Career Progression is subject to the same terms and conditions as Eastern & Sunstate crew (that is, we take over with us years of service, seniority, etc).
Don't forget that the numbers of people that may go across from the regionals is affected by the Divisional Transfer Agreement, which exists between Short Haul and Long Haul. Each financial year, 50 crew transfer from each division and this is actioned PRIOR to Career Progression, with an impact on training timetables, schools, etc. If one division is experiencing a surplus (ie. Long Haul), then additional numbers of crew may go across to Short Haul in this example, with the numbers made up down the track. This, as a result, ultimately impacts whether or not CP is actioned for the Regionals.
Over the last couple of years, given the increase in MAM casuals (reducing the need for recruiting full time crew), the FAAA has lobbied (and has been winning...so far) in encouraging QF Short Haul to take Career Progression schools linked to the number of casual positions being introduced into Short Haul.
Normally, there is no limit on the number of people from the regionals they may take in any one year - again, this depends on the operational requirements and budget for increasing the number of permanent full time crew in Short Haul (15 from Eastern, 12 from Sunstate and 8 from Jetstar). Jetstar Career Progression is subject to the same terms and conditions as Eastern & Sunstate crew (that is, we take over with us years of service, seniority, etc).
Don't forget that the numbers of people that may go across from the regionals is affected by the Divisional Transfer Agreement, which exists between Short Haul and Long Haul. Each financial year, 50 crew transfer from each division and this is actioned PRIOR to Career Progression, with an impact on training timetables, schools, etc. If one division is experiencing a surplus (ie. Long Haul), then additional numbers of crew may go across to Short Haul in this example, with the numbers made up down the track. This, as a result, ultimately impacts whether or not CP is actioned for the Regionals.
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As a MAM casual, we have all received emails over the last week from the FAAA stating that there will be some permanent positions available for the role of Short Haul Flight Attendant with QF with the opportunity to apply extended to the MAM casual/fixed term team. MAM casuals were given the opportunity to put in expressions of interest back in June. More info to be supplied by QF over the next few months.
In regards to career progression, in Perth we have already had about 6 people come over from Eastern/Sunstate within the last 5 months and we have had 6 people from Jetstar come over within the last 3 months with another two too arrive this month, filling Jetstar's quota of 8 transfers and i believe after Perth received the 6 people from Eastern/Sunstate, another school of career progression from Eastern/Sunstate went through not long after and they were able to choose their base so are now based over east.
I hope this answers some questions?
Anyway, good luck to all MAM people who are given the opportunity for permanency, fingers crossed.
Oz
In regards to career progression, in Perth we have already had about 6 people come over from Eastern/Sunstate within the last 5 months and we have had 6 people from Jetstar come over within the last 3 months with another two too arrive this month, filling Jetstar's quota of 8 transfers and i believe after Perth received the 6 people from Eastern/Sunstate, another school of career progression from Eastern/Sunstate went through not long after and they were able to choose their base so are now based over east.
I hope this answers some questions?
Anyway, good luck to all MAM people who are given the opportunity for permanency, fingers crossed.
Oz
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The answer is YES if QF do convert a minimum of 32 MAM casuals to permanent, which by all accounts is likely to happen by or before the end of the year this will activate the Career Progression Agreement.
The agreement is only activated when 32 or more people are appointed externally to permanent positions within the short haul division.
Since Eastern crew voted up our EBA some 2 years ago now the progression agreement has NOT been activated. We were owed 8 people from the start-up of the Perth Short Haul base but this was delayed due to Sars and the War. At the beginning of this year QF took 4 people into Perth and recently took another 15 (4 which was owed from the original 8) and 11 which was an industrial trade off between QF and the FAAA.
Under the terms of the Career Progression Agreement which includes Eastern and Sunstate (for some reason Impluse/Jet* have a seperate agreement) Eastern are entitled to 10 Positions in a six month period from January to June and another 10 positions from July to December should QF employ a minimum of 32 people externally into permanent positions. However QF can take more if they choose to do this but the 11 which recently went across as an industrial trade off was the FIRST time QF have ever taken people outside the Career Progression Agreement so know one really knows if this will continue to occur in the future.
Be assured though that the FAAA are always looking for opportunities to push Career Progression with QF as permanent positions are rarely offered (as we all know) anymore so other ways have to be found to progress the careers of regional crew. Furthermore Eastern crew voted up our last EBA in good faith based on career progression so effectively we have only received 11 positions in the last 2 years as the 8 were already owed. Without the FAAA pushing QF on this issue we would still be waiting.
So hopefully before the end of year we will see another group of regionals progress to QF and not before time.
The agreement is only activated when 32 or more people are appointed externally to permanent positions within the short haul division.
Since Eastern crew voted up our EBA some 2 years ago now the progression agreement has NOT been activated. We were owed 8 people from the start-up of the Perth Short Haul base but this was delayed due to Sars and the War. At the beginning of this year QF took 4 people into Perth and recently took another 15 (4 which was owed from the original 8) and 11 which was an industrial trade off between QF and the FAAA.
Under the terms of the Career Progression Agreement which includes Eastern and Sunstate (for some reason Impluse/Jet* have a seperate agreement) Eastern are entitled to 10 Positions in a six month period from January to June and another 10 positions from July to December should QF employ a minimum of 32 people externally into permanent positions. However QF can take more if they choose to do this but the 11 which recently went across as an industrial trade off was the FIRST time QF have ever taken people outside the Career Progression Agreement so know one really knows if this will continue to occur in the future.
Be assured though that the FAAA are always looking for opportunities to push Career Progression with QF as permanent positions are rarely offered (as we all know) anymore so other ways have to be found to progress the careers of regional crew. Furthermore Eastern crew voted up our last EBA in good faith based on career progression so effectively we have only received 11 positions in the last 2 years as the 8 were already owed. Without the FAAA pushing QF on this issue we would still be waiting.
So hopefully before the end of year we will see another group of regionals progress to QF and not before time.
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Just to keep y'all in the loop...
Was given the indication (from a reliable source) that another contigent of J* crew are to be given the opportunity to transfer to mainline operations under the CP agreement before the end of the year. Was not told of specific dates or numbers tho.
Safe flyin all....
Was given the indication (from a reliable source) that another contigent of J* crew are to be given the opportunity to transfer to mainline operations under the CP agreement before the end of the year. Was not told of specific dates or numbers tho.
Safe flyin all....
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cp
Hi there!!
Just out of curiosity, does career progression only kick in when they are recruiting 32 or more external applicants ie MAM etc to permanent? Please correct me if i'm wrong!
Oz
sorry, just realised this question had already been answered
Just out of curiosity, does career progression only kick in when they are recruiting 32 or more external applicants ie MAM etc to permanent? Please correct me if i'm wrong!
Oz
sorry, just realised this question had already been answered
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If it happens before the end of this year it will either be another industrial trade off therefore not requiring permanent employment (ie the 32) or MAM's will be converted, therefore activating the progression agreement.
With the hundreds of MAM's put through over recent months and all basically getting full-time hours surely QF can make room for the regionals.
With the hundreds of MAM's put through over recent months and all basically getting full-time hours surely QF can make room for the regionals.
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Hi!!!
As said previously, a month ago casuals were advised by the FAAA that full time permanent S/H positions will be offered in Feb 2005 and extended to the MAM casual/fixed term team with more info to come over the next few months from QF, so who know's what they're doing? as it says, we're just sitting back and waiting for some more info to come our way!
Oz
As said previously, a month ago casuals were advised by the FAAA that full time permanent S/H positions will be offered in Feb 2005 and extended to the MAM casual/fixed term team with more info to come over the next few months from QF, so who know's what they're doing? as it says, we're just sitting back and waiting for some more info to come our way!
Oz
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Has anyone heard anymore about the possibility of regional progression in the near future? Do you guys at Jet* push the FAAA and your management on this issue? As thats the only way things seem to move when its comes to progression.
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Jet*
Is it true that Jet* only have 8 positions per year allowed for career progression? There have already been 8 transfer to mainline this year, but next year isn't far away i guess?
Oz
Is it true that Jet* only have 8 positions per year allowed for career progression? There have already been 8 transfer to mainline this year, but next year isn't far away i guess?
Oz
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Have we heard anything more about this at all? Surely with short staffing at shorthaul they recognise the advantages of progressing some more staff? Are mam casuals still on hold for permenant?
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Who know's what casuals are on hold for, infact who know's if we're even on hold???? Maybe something will come after June? I know all interviews held were for permanent positions based in PER, but with the downsizing of the PER L/H base and about 40 PER long haulers transferring to PER S/H, will more permanents be required? who knows? wait and see i guess, not holding my breath.
Oz
Oz
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Sadly no news. Earlier this year the MAM's were interviewed and positions were supposed to be offered which would have triggered progression but this now seems unlikely.
Regional crew should contact the FAAA. It was the FAAA that last year negotiated regional progression without any permanent employment and the FAAA are the only ones that have the power to make it happen again. Sunstate, Eastern and Jetstar management have zero sway with Qantas on this issue.
Regional members need to make their feelings known to the FAAA so they can go back and negotiate on behalf of members like they did last year.
Regional crew should contact the FAAA. It was the FAAA that last year negotiated regional progression without any permanent employment and the FAAA are the only ones that have the power to make it happen again. Sunstate, Eastern and Jetstar management have zero sway with Qantas on this issue.
Regional members need to make their feelings known to the FAAA so they can go back and negotiate on behalf of members like they did last year.
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I had to laugh at Peter Costello's comments to the media over the weekend where he stated it was promised to him some years ago that he would "progress" into the Prime Minister role. Well thanks to you Mr Costello and your governments policies we are the bottom of the flight attendant heap who were also promised career progression are not progressing anywhere so why should you!
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I believe the FAAA have not been up-dating regional crew on the status of regional progression, so here is part of a newsletter issued to short haul crew dated 6 May, 2005.
Short Haul Establishment
Since September 2004 the Association has been pressing the Company to increase the full time Short Haul establishment.
On April 21, 2005 the Company wrote to the Association inviting discussions on the matter. The discussions that have been occurring over the last week have included transfers from Long Haul, employment opportunities for MAM casuals and
Career Progression. In addition, the Company has also been reminded that transfers from Short Haul to Long Haul needs to be addressed.
At the last meeting held on 4 May, 2005 the Company gave the Association an undertaking to write on all these matters on or after Monday 9 May, 2005.
Members need to be clear, that while we understand that there is currently a staff freeze within Qantas our legitimate concerns regarding Flexible Work Arrangements and drafting need to be resolved.
Short Haul Establishment
Since September 2004 the Association has been pressing the Company to increase the full time Short Haul establishment.
On April 21, 2005 the Company wrote to the Association inviting discussions on the matter. The discussions that have been occurring over the last week have included transfers from Long Haul, employment opportunities for MAM casuals and
Career Progression. In addition, the Company has also been reminded that transfers from Short Haul to Long Haul needs to be addressed.
At the last meeting held on 4 May, 2005 the Company gave the Association an undertaking to write on all these matters on or after Monday 9 May, 2005.
Members need to be clear, that while we understand that there is currently a staff freeze within Qantas our legitimate concerns regarding Flexible Work Arrangements and drafting need to be resolved.
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Some good news for regional progression:
FAAA NEWS
19 May, 2005 QF12-05
Attention All Qantas Flight Attendants
PLANNED SHORT HAUL RECRUITMENT
As members are aware your Association has been pressing the Company to increase the full time Short Haul establishment since September 2004.
We are pleased to advise that in a letter from the Company, dated 16 May, 2005 we were advised as follows:
* 23 positions will be transferring from Long Haul into Perth Short Haul commencing their training on 1 July 2005.
* 32 MAM casuals will also be offered an opportunity to take up permanent positions in the Perth Base, also with a start date of 1 July, 2005.
* The Company is planning to move 50 Short Haul flight attendants to Long Haul, commencing November 2005. While we note and understand that there is clearly an argument for movement from Short Haul to Long Haul earlier than November, consideration needed to be given to the current shortage in our Division.
However, the Association has already advised the Company that these 50 are for the financial year ending 2005, so we can argue for further movement in the first six months of 2006.
* The Company also acknowledges that they will now need to offer some Career Progression opportunities, but have indicated they wish to talk to the Association about the time frame and the process in this regard.
FAAA NEWS
19 May, 2005 QF12-05
Attention All Qantas Flight Attendants
PLANNED SHORT HAUL RECRUITMENT
As members are aware your Association has been pressing the Company to increase the full time Short Haul establishment since September 2004.
We are pleased to advise that in a letter from the Company, dated 16 May, 2005 we were advised as follows:
* 23 positions will be transferring from Long Haul into Perth Short Haul commencing their training on 1 July 2005.
* 32 MAM casuals will also be offered an opportunity to take up permanent positions in the Perth Base, also with a start date of 1 July, 2005.
* The Company is planning to move 50 Short Haul flight attendants to Long Haul, commencing November 2005. While we note and understand that there is clearly an argument for movement from Short Haul to Long Haul earlier than November, consideration needed to be given to the current shortage in our Division.
However, the Association has already advised the Company that these 50 are for the financial year ending 2005, so we can argue for further movement in the first six months of 2006.
* The Company also acknowledges that they will now need to offer some Career Progression opportunities, but have indicated they wish to talk to the Association about the time frame and the process in this regard.
