Poor Cabin Crew
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Poor Cabin Crew
Heard a poor Big Airways Trolley Dolly, who has only been with the company 6 months, complaining the other day that she was finding it hard to cope,as she was only taking home £1800 a month.
WHAT! I KNOW ENGINEERS WITH 20+ YEARS EXPERIENCE IN ON A LOT LESS THAN THAT.
And the papers complain about falling maintenance standards, is it any wonder when the companies obviously value cabin-crew with 6 weeks training more than an engineer with 20 years experience.
WHAT! I KNOW ENGINEERS WITH 20+ YEARS EXPERIENCE IN ON A LOT LESS THAN THAT.
And the papers complain about falling maintenance standards, is it any wonder when the companies obviously value cabin-crew with 6 weeks training more than an engineer with 20 years experience.
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Firstly, yes, the cabin crew are rated more highly than the engineers, but that probably won't change however much you whinge. People tend to 'talk down' to cabin crew, but I remember I did the job because it offered me thousands (my last month's salary as cabin crew after 6 yrs was £3,200) for doing very little, "rest" (sometimes a mini-holiday!) in 5 star hotels and great travel opportunities (usually in J or F as I knew the crews!). Now, who was the silly one? I've since moved on, but believe me it's a great life and one of the best kept secrets and I look back with a cheeky smirk at how easy life was!
Only at BA as cabin crew
Only at BA as cabin crew
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Unfortunately, you are missing the point, the whinge is not about Cabincrew, but about the broader picture of a reduction in Maintenance Standards on aircraft, which should concern even the most self centred of cabin crew as untimately no amount of money would make me feel good about flying in an aircraft maintained by an ever disilusioned bunch of engineers.
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I think people "missed the point" because of the way you phrased your post. It's not very corteous to speak about a profession's problems involving another one and comparing. First it is very easy to get into generalisation like " 6 weeks training" (ex. CC easily speak 3 or 4 languages and I know collegues who speak 7. How many do you? ).
Then I believe every one must negotiate their own salaries. Too easy to point your finger to others that are maybe only better than you at negotiating.
Remember:
you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate
Now it wouldn't it be nice if you edited your first post?
Then I believe every one must negotiate their own salaries. Too easy to point your finger to others that are maybe only better than you at negotiating.
Remember:
you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate
Now it wouldn't it be nice if you edited your first post?
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Oh dear, flyblue,
You miss the points completely. 6 or 7 languages are of precious little help when an engine is on fire, or when 2 hydraulic systems start to go down, or a couple of generators fail, or..........
Hey ho, tea white with please.
You miss the points completely. 6 or 7 languages are of precious little help when an engine is on fire, or when 2 hydraulic systems start to go down, or a couple of generators fail, or..........
Hey ho, tea white with please.
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tsk tsk tsk RoyHudd...
If there is a cabin fire - cabin crew attempt to put it out. What language you speak in this case is irrelevant - however you do still have to communicate with tech crew and pax, who may or may not speak the language of your airline (hopefully the tech crew do heheh!). Effective communication will go a long way towards achieving a better result.
What exactly a cabin crew member can do about an engine fire, 2 hydraulic systems going down, or a generator failing is beyond me. Other than preparing the cabin, which again involves communicating with the passengers and crew!!! Again, life would be a little easier if you can communicate in the passenger's native language, would you not agree?
To the original poster..
I would like to know if you actually expressed your view to the FA you heard complaining or are you just b*tching about it behind her back?
Grow some balls for goodness sakes.
SG
PS. Pardon my crass expression, but in this case it is necessary.
If there is a cabin fire - cabin crew attempt to put it out. What language you speak in this case is irrelevant - however you do still have to communicate with tech crew and pax, who may or may not speak the language of your airline (hopefully the tech crew do heheh!). Effective communication will go a long way towards achieving a better result.
What exactly a cabin crew member can do about an engine fire, 2 hydraulic systems going down, or a generator failing is beyond me. Other than preparing the cabin, which again involves communicating with the passengers and crew!!! Again, life would be a little easier if you can communicate in the passenger's native language, would you not agree?
To the original poster..
I would like to know if you actually expressed your view to the FA you heard complaining or are you just b*tching about it behind her back?
Grow some balls for goodness sakes.
SG
PS. Pardon my crass expression, but in this case it is necessary.
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HEY HO WHAT, ROY HUDD?
Guess what is going straight in your tea???
Flyblue, I totally agree with you.
When an engine is on fire and you have 312 passengers on board of which only a third speaks english, the knowledge of other languages is as important as the technical knowledge of an engineer (who in the meantime, with all probabilities, is on the ground).
I speak from experience.
FBW.
**ten minutes to landing**
Flyblue, I totally agree with you.
When an engine is on fire and you have 312 passengers on board of which only a third speaks english, the knowledge of other languages is as important as the technical knowledge of an engineer (who in the meantime, with all probabilities, is on the ground).
I speak from experience.
FBW.
**ten minutes to landing**
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Roy Hudd,
if you read my post well, you'll notice I was making an example of generalisation. Languages BTW are only an aspect of the job. Engineers do their job, just like Cabin Crew do theirs. Aircrafts wouldn't fly with only engineers, or only CC. They need both to make an airline. Now, if someone is not happy with his salary, he has two options
1) Get another job, provided they have the requirements.
2) Negotiate a higher salary.
To disparage others is no use whatsoever.
if you read my post well, you'll notice I was making an example of generalisation. Languages BTW are only an aspect of the job. Engineers do their job, just like Cabin Crew do theirs. Aircrafts wouldn't fly with only engineers, or only CC. They need both to make an airline. Now, if someone is not happy with his salary, he has two options
1) Get another job, provided they have the requirements.
2) Negotiate a higher salary.
To disparage others is no use whatsoever.
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As for language, I remember once when I flew and one of the cabin crew members barely knew any English. When a passenger asked her, in their national language Thai, whether they would mind if two of the passengers changed seats with each other, she answered "I don't speak Thailand".
I later on saw that airline requires all cabin crew to be fluent in English! Contradictory, don't you agree?
I later on saw that airline requires all cabin crew to be fluent in English! Contradictory, don't you agree?
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Whoa!
Some pretty pissed off people out there from what I can tell
Tewkesbury mate I am sorry that you feel that your company values its cabin crew more than its engineers. I dont think that because they pay them more it means that they have more respect or value for their input to the succesful operation of a flight - because at the end of the day, thats what we are all contributing towards: a an aircraft full of pax and freight succesfully moving from one port to another. Engineers are very important, your job is to know basically everything there is to know about the systems of the aircraft, where as the pilots are there to make the systems all work together to create flight, the cabin crew are there to keep the pax happy and safe who pay for the flight to operate, the ground crew are there to co-ordinate the ground side of things.
Personally I have a lot of respect for our engineers, and they (most of them) in turn respect our cabin crew.
Sorry mate, but the original post did come across as being a direct attack at cabin crew, even though from what you say it was not your intention 
Royhudd get back in your hole and don't speak until spoken to, if thats the way you are going to treat others! There is such a lack of respect for each others roles in this thread its not funny.
Its not about making ourselves feel important at the expense of others!
Final point - I am not sure about UK operations etc, but in oz we have unions that negotiate our payscales for us... if that is the case in the UK as well, perhaps the BA engineers could (although I would presume they already have) broach the subject with the union?
Be happy people 
Some pretty pissed off people out there from what I can tell
And the papers complain about falling maintenance standards, is it any wonder when the companies obviously value cabin-crew with 6 weeks training more than an engineer with 20 years experience
Personally I have a lot of respect for our engineers, and they (most of them) in turn respect our cabin crew.
Unfortunately, you are missing the point, the whinge is not about Cabincrew, but about the broader picture of a reduction in Maintenance Standards on aircraft, which should concern even the most self centred of cabin crew as untimately no amount of money would make me feel good about flying in an aircraft maintained by an ever disilusioned bunch of engineers.
Hey ho, tea white with please.
Its not about making ourselves feel important at the expense of others!
Final point - I am not sure about UK operations etc, but in oz we have unions that negotiate our payscales for us... if that is the case in the UK as well, perhaps the BA engineers could (although I would presume they already have) broach the subject with the union?
Be happy people
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Most of the cabin crew wages are made up from expenses, if engineers jobs involved travel I am sure the wages would exceed the cabin crew salary.
Yes cabin crew are paid to excess especially at BA, but guess which airline is in the dog house? BA, why because in the days of a state owned union run monster the staff on the best wages negotiated a better deal and good for them, engineers did not.
Yes cabin crew are paid to excess especially at BA, but guess which airline is in the dog house? BA, why because in the days of a state owned union run monster the staff on the best wages negotiated a better deal and good for them, engineers did not.
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Expenses? What expenses? Why should the airline pay for your lunch when you're in a hotel. I've always wondered that. They don't buy you lunch when you're at home, same with the engineer. Still, don't suppose that'll go down all that well around here...
RoyHudd your attempt is only going to earn you a sore head from banging against that brick wall. Too many sensitive people ready to jump on anything that looks like a belittlement of a profession.
Anyone who responds to a slight with
"guess what's:
-going in your tea
-being rubbed all over your bread roll
-happening to your piece of steak"
is a part of the problem, not the solution. It's not socially acceptable around here to appear to ridicule cabin crew but excessive use of vitriole and pathetic, childish claims of food or drink tampering are quite alright.
Now and then the CC where I work need a "briefing" and they get it. Then of course, one has to wonder what's coming in the next meal. Seems to indicate a different level of maturity. It's a generalisation, I know, and doesn't always apply. But hey, when the shoe DOES fit....
RoyHudd your attempt is only going to earn you a sore head from banging against that brick wall. Too many sensitive people ready to jump on anything that looks like a belittlement of a profession.
Anyone who responds to a slight with
"guess what's:
-going in your tea
-being rubbed all over your bread roll
-happening to your piece of steak"
is a part of the problem, not the solution. It's not socially acceptable around here to appear to ridicule cabin crew but excessive use of vitriole and pathetic, childish claims of food or drink tampering are quite alright.
Now and then the CC where I work need a "briefing" and they get it. Then of course, one has to wonder what's coming in the next meal. Seems to indicate a different level of maturity. It's a generalisation, I know, and doesn't always apply. But hey, when the shoe DOES fit....
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Itchybum
I agree completely! There are times when a bit of a briefing is required - some of the things I have heard my crew come out with towards our flight deck have earned those cabin crew disciplinary action. But Royhudd's comment was totally uncalled for (and yes hey so was my response - I can admit that).
I still stand by the fact though that there is a HUGE lack of respect of each others professions in this thread... perhaps if people respected each others role in the provision of transport to passengers then we would be able to move forward in this discussion a lot easier.
No its not socially acceptable to ridicule cabin crew, especially on a cabin crew forum - but on the same token its not fair for cabin crew to ridicule other roles in aviation either (which from the short time I have been posting on pprune does not happen very much, if ever)
But hey, when the shoe DOES fit....
I still stand by the fact though that there is a HUGE lack of respect of each others professions in this thread... perhaps if people respected each others role in the provision of transport to passengers then we would be able to move forward in this discussion a lot easier.
It's not socially acceptable around here to appear to ridicule cabin crew but excessive use of vitriole and pathetic, childish claims of food or drink tampering are quite alright
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We're all worth what we're paid - that's how the market works. I don't like that BA crew can earn significantly more than crew in my company: I don't like that non-exec directors are paid more than I earn in a year for less than a month's work in days. I don't like that some of my managers are paid anything at all, given that they are so incompetent, they could f**k up a cup of coffee!
The market dictates the going price - as flyblue says, if you don't like it, then renegotiate your own worth. Comparing perceived value will achieve nothing except a migraine!
Have a nice day
The market dictates the going price - as flyblue says, if you don't like it, then renegotiate your own worth. Comparing perceived value will achieve nothing except a migraine!
Have a nice day
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Royhudd - maybe speaking 10 languages isn't that useful when it comes to engine fires, hydraulic problems etc, but those that speak those 10 languages can sit back and watch you work...for probably twice as much money for 0.000001% of hard graft!
The cabin crew can make your tea while you unblock the drains and loos.
The cabin crew can make your tea while you unblock the drains and loos.
Poor Cabin Crew
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Most of the replies to this comment prove one thing that this industry if fueled by greed, and people who are only interested in one thing, the bottom line. When in point of fact the number one driving force in the industry used to be safety, not any more, it's self, self, self.
Well I hope all you contributors to this column are happy that you are flying in aircraft maintained by people who are paid less than cabin crew. Laker said it years ago, "I can fill an aircraft with cabin in an afternoon stroll down Crawley High Street", but engineers? Just remember 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys'.
Well I hope all you contributors to this column are happy that you are flying in aircraft maintained by people who are paid less than cabin crew. Laker said it years ago, "I can fill an aircraft with cabin in an afternoon stroll down Crawley High Street", but engineers? Just remember 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys'.
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So, tewkesbury - there was a golden age was there, when people worked for higher reasons than mere personal gain? I would disagree with you on that point...
Just to set the record straight, I was surprised to hear that gingers earn less than some Cabin Crew, and in a just world, then I'd be quite happy for that situation to be reversed. I wish to return safely home each night, and an integral part of that process involves skilled engineers behaving responsibly and using their skills. However, the issue here is not really about the relative worth (and yes, Sir Freddie was right - but would the Crew be any good?) of CC to engineers, but actually about the ability of engineers to negotiate a better price for their skills in the existing market. In that struggle, I wish them luck.
It is also worth pointing out that not all crew are paid as much as others. For example, I'm paid, in charter, the current perceivedd market price for my skills and experience- others are paid less: The comparison made at the start of this thread may not hold true for all airlines in the UK - just a thought
Have a nice day
Just to set the record straight, I was surprised to hear that gingers earn less than some Cabin Crew, and in a just world, then I'd be quite happy for that situation to be reversed. I wish to return safely home each night, and an integral part of that process involves skilled engineers behaving responsibly and using their skills. However, the issue here is not really about the relative worth (and yes, Sir Freddie was right - but would the Crew be any good?) of CC to engineers, but actually about the ability of engineers to negotiate a better price for their skills in the existing market. In that struggle, I wish them luck.
It is also worth pointing out that not all crew are paid as much as others. For example, I'm paid, in charter, the current perceivedd market price for my skills and experience- others are paid less: The comparison made at the start of this thread may not hold true for all airlines in the UK - just a thought
Have a nice day
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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At the end of the day it depends what you're actually paying for...
My local main dealer charges around £70 ph for working on my car.
As a paramedic I just about clear £10 ph before tax and NI.
How many lives does my mechanic save? But I hope they ll do the job right so my brakes/steering/etc work when I need them, but if he gets it wrong or there is a mechanical failure... When/if I crash it ll be the emergency services earning a 1/7th of the hourly rate who ll, (hopefully), save me...
So... yes the engineers are an important part of the loop BUT when the proverbial hits the fan it ll be the cabin crew who are, (again hopefully), doing their best to get me out of the aircraft - even if they spend the majority of their working lives serving my dinner...
No one will ever be paid what they or indeed most of the general public think they are worth. Put a value on my skills when I ve just resuscitated your relative....
Property will always have more value than life - check what the Geneva Convention (?) says you're worth on your ticket next time you fly - you ll be shocked!
PW
My local main dealer charges around £70 ph for working on my car.
As a paramedic I just about clear £10 ph before tax and NI.
How many lives does my mechanic save? But I hope they ll do the job right so my brakes/steering/etc work when I need them, but if he gets it wrong or there is a mechanical failure... When/if I crash it ll be the emergency services earning a 1/7th of the hourly rate who ll, (hopefully), save me...
So... yes the engineers are an important part of the loop BUT when the proverbial hits the fan it ll be the cabin crew who are, (again hopefully), doing their best to get me out of the aircraft - even if they spend the majority of their working lives serving my dinner...
No one will ever be paid what they or indeed most of the general public think they are worth. Put a value on my skills when I ve just resuscitated your relative....
Property will always have more value than life - check what the Geneva Convention (?) says you're worth on your ticket next time you fly - you ll be shocked!
PW