Mobile Phones
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Maybe so christep, but I never use the radio around a tanker refuelling an aircraft. Getting hit by a car doing 30mph shouldn't kill you either, but only a bloody fool would put the statistic to the test.
As for comms I actually prefer to use the phone as you can never get a word in edgeways on gthe R/T anyway for all the inane chatter from the pax handling girls.
As for comms I actually prefer to use the phone as you can never get a word in edgeways on gthe R/T anyway for all the inane chatter from the pax handling girls.
get with the times ;)
i have been PIC on numerous occassions and have used my cell/mobile phone to call friends/send msgs etc and low and behold the plane never fell out of the sky!!
It is totally a myth, my opinion from my experience, that mobile/cell phones affect a plane whilst in the sky.
It is totally a myth, my opinion from my experience, that mobile/cell phones affect a plane whilst in the sky.
Clone of Victor Meldrew
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I dont know about australia but in europe should you try to use
your mobile phone in flight over land you will find it has no
service... in flight it will be "in line of sight" of many cells and
I think this causes the phone company computer to " turn you
off".... do not fear however back on the ground it will work fine again.. 15 years ago I used to use my old analogue phone
from the flight deck all the time!!!
your mobile phone in flight over land you will find it has no
service... in flight it will be "in line of sight" of many cells and
I think this causes the phone company computer to " turn you
off".... do not fear however back on the ground it will work fine again.. 15 years ago I used to use my old analogue phone
from the flight deck all the time!!!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: A public phone booth near you...
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People will try...
Have come across this twice now...
Opened the toilet door onlt to find some pratt who has forgotten to lock the door, in there trying to use their phone. Freakin' ridiculous!
Did the honourable thing and informed them of yadda, yadda, yadda.... etc. Then took down their details in a similar manner of AJ's desc.
Think they understood and realised that we do take it seriously.
Opened the toilet door onlt to find some pratt who has forgotten to lock the door, in there trying to use their phone. Freakin' ridiculous!
Did the honourable thing and informed them of yadda, yadda, yadda.... etc. Then took down their details in a similar manner of AJ's desc.
Think they understood and realised that we do take it seriously.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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lets be realistic the chance that a mobile may cause an ignition is still quite low nevertheless there is that possibility. On the note of realistic flight attendants/pilots and engineers always use their mobile onboard or in the aerobridge perhaps not when the aircraft is being refuelled but it's a common thing that happens thank goodness! haha
Join Date: Jan 2003
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SLF Perspective
CD
Excellent info thnks.
I work in Satcoms and have a pretty good knowledge/understanding of the technical aspects of RF (radio frequency) transmissions their risks etc. I have reviewed, as part of my job, much of the Conexxions By Boeing technical studies. Believe me it is a very thoroughly researched technological breakthrough.
While, personally, I do not believe there is any danger to in-flight systems (unless the phone is operated immediately adjacent to equipment susceptible to RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) ) my phone is switched Off/On according to the policy of the airline with which I am flying.
Why?...
1/ I am a passenger and in buying my ticket essentially agree to governed by the Policies regarding passengers for that airline.
2/ Each airline is different, some days I can win and phone my wife/kids in a last minute call before the doors close as I remember to say I will be late happy birthday whatever. Other times I will have to wait 6/8 hours and call later to appologise.
It's called life
3/ FA/CC are performing a job intended to keep me safe and do so according to the rules of the company they work for. You don't tell me how to do my job - I don't tell you how to do yours.
4/ It is common courtesy when all is said and done to respect the rules whatever they are where-ever you are.
5/ Is it really wise, especially at the beginning of a flight, to p1ss off the person who will be looking after your safety and in-flight comfort??
PS I did once forget to switch my phone off - remembered 1hr into flight and felt VERY embaressed to open the overhead to switch it off
Excellent info thnks.
I work in Satcoms and have a pretty good knowledge/understanding of the technical aspects of RF (radio frequency) transmissions their risks etc. I have reviewed, as part of my job, much of the Conexxions By Boeing technical studies. Believe me it is a very thoroughly researched technological breakthrough.
While, personally, I do not believe there is any danger to in-flight systems (unless the phone is operated immediately adjacent to equipment susceptible to RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) ) my phone is switched Off/On according to the policy of the airline with which I am flying.
Why?...
1/ I am a passenger and in buying my ticket essentially agree to governed by the Policies regarding passengers for that airline.
2/ Each airline is different, some days I can win and phone my wife/kids in a last minute call before the doors close as I remember to say I will be late happy birthday whatever. Other times I will have to wait 6/8 hours and call later to appologise.
It's called life
3/ FA/CC are performing a job intended to keep me safe and do so according to the rules of the company they work for. You don't tell me how to do my job - I don't tell you how to do yours.
4/ It is common courtesy when all is said and done to respect the rules whatever they are where-ever you are.
5/ Is it really wise, especially at the beginning of a flight, to p1ss off the person who will be looking after your safety and in-flight comfort??
PS I did once forget to switch my phone off - remembered 1hr into flight and felt VERY embaressed to open the overhead to switch it off
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Miami Traveler Allegedly Slaps Air Marshal
POSTED: 11:41 pm EDT June 8, 2004
UPDATED: 10:00 am EDT June 9, 2004
MIAMI -- A plane passenger slapped a federal air marshal after refusing to sit down and ignoring instructions to end her cellular phone call, which she said would have been "rude," prosecutors said Tuesday.
Lilia Belkova has been jailed since being charged with assaulting a federal officer and interfering with a flight crew last Wednesday as a US Airways flight prepared to take off from Miami to Philadelphia.
A bail hearing was set for Thursday. It was unclear late Tuesday if Belkova, 38, had yet been assigned an attorney.
According to prosecutors, Belkova refused flight attendants' instructions to turn off her cell phone as Flight 26 taxied for takeoff, saying: "It is rude to hang up on people. I don't have to turn my phone off."
After ignoring more flight crew instructions, one of two air marshals ordered Belkova to be seated and put a hand on her shoulder to show her where to sit.
Belkova reached back and slapped the marshal across the face, causing "minor swelling," according to court papers. She was handcuffed and taken off the plane.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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well , did a flight yesterday and in the middle of servng meals, reach a row where some guy is quite happily texting away. he tells me the phone is switched off, so i asked to have a look, it wasnt , so he begrudglingly switched it off, saying he couldnt get a signal anyway. he then proceeded to give me dirty looks the entire flight, making comments each time i went past, ooh look out, here she is to tell me off again etc.
what is it with these people and simple instructions.
anyways, he got his hands slapped again later on whilst trying to pilfer out of the duty free cart when he thought my colleague wasnt looking. he obviously didnt realise us hosties have eyes in the back of our heads!!!
what is it with these people and simple instructions.
anyways, he got his hands slapped again later on whilst trying to pilfer out of the duty free cart when he thought my colleague wasnt looking. he obviously didnt realise us hosties have eyes in the back of our heads!!!
Join Date: May 2004
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Dishman - you are welcome on my flight anyday!
At the end of the day folks, there will be arguments back and forth back and forth until your coffee has gone cold over the risks of using your mobile on board an aircraft. But remember 2 things -
(a) In Australia, CASA (our governing aviation body) says that on board an aircraft, you MUST TURN YOUR MOBILE PHONE OFF!!!!!!!!
(b) You fly with an airline, you follow that airlines rules
Very simple concept....
Oh and by the way if you wanted to get really pedantic, in australia (and no doubt similar regs apply around the world) a passenger who does not follow the instructions of an airline officer is breaking our CAR's (Civil Aviation Regulations) and can be technically classified as a disruptive passenger and can therefore be referred to airport police...
(and no folks I have never done that by the way, I always always diffuse a situation rather than inflame it, but its good to know just in case
)
At the end of the day folks, there will be arguments back and forth back and forth until your coffee has gone cold over the risks of using your mobile on board an aircraft. But remember 2 things -
(a) In Australia, CASA (our governing aviation body) says that on board an aircraft, you MUST TURN YOUR MOBILE PHONE OFF!!!!!!!!
(b) You fly with an airline, you follow that airlines rules
Very simple concept....
Oh and by the way if you wanted to get really pedantic, in australia (and no doubt similar regs apply around the world) a passenger who does not follow the instructions of an airline officer is breaking our CAR's (Civil Aviation Regulations) and can be technically classified as a disruptive passenger and can therefore be referred to airport police...
(and no folks I have never done that by the way, I always always diffuse a situation rather than inflame it, but its good to know just in case
)
Drain Bamaged
Never though about it before but how about pagers ?
Do they fit under "cell phone" category !?
I guess not, it's only a receiver but still an electronic device so....
Maybe another "louce" to look for
Do they fit under "cell phone" category !?
I guess not, it's only a receiver but still an electronic device so....
Maybe another "louce" to look for
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New devices worry FAA
Washington - Consumers are not the only ones impressed by the proliferation of new portable electronic devices. So is the Federal Aviation Administration - but not favorably.
Portable electronic technology is changing faster than air safety rules, according to experts at the agency, the airlines and elsewhere, who are scrambling to keep up.
Wi-Fi cards, wireless modems, hand-helds with wireless e-mail service and even cell phones with games are all what the FAA calls "intentional emitters," devices that put out radio energy at a variety of frequencies.
Passengers are carrying them onto planes that have long relied on radio navigation beacons on the ground; lately the planes also need signals from fainter sources orbiting the earth, the Global Positioning System satellites. And the planes often have their own wireless systems for equipment that was added after they were built, like emergency lighting along the aisles.
Interference between passengers' devices and the planes' systems is difficult to gauge and probably rare, experts say, but the possibility of stray signals is stirring anxiety.
"It is thorny, and it gets messy fast," said William E. Winfrey, a specialist in advanced technologies at Delta Air Lines.
Winfrey is a co-chairman, with a Boeing expert, David P. Carson, of a committee established last year at the request of the FAA to explore the problem. Scores of experts from airlines, aircraft equipment makers and consumer electronics companies have been meeting since early 2003 and hope to issue recommendations in about 18 months.
Yet new products are entering the market so fast that the committee's recommendations will be quite broad rather than tied to specific products, Winfrey said.
While travelers may know that cell phones are signal producers and comply with rules banning their use in flight, their understanding of the risks posed by other devices is fuzzier. Passengers with laptops equipped with Wi-Fi cards may turn on the laptop without grasping that it is broadcasting, looking for an access point. Some may turn on a wirelessly equipped hand-held to look at a calendar and forget that it, too, is radiating.
The seriousness of the problem is hard to gauge. Winfrey and Carson are not certain that there has ever been a problem in flight that was traced directly to electronic interference originating on board. But the idea haunts safety experts.
In theory, all devices are putting out radio frequency emissions only in the ranges assigned to them by the Federal Communications Commission and thus should not interfere with each other. But electronics experts worry about signals straying outside the assigned range. Those emissions would not have to be large to cause a problem.
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/tech/news/mar04/218154.asp
Washington - Consumers are not the only ones impressed by the proliferation of new portable electronic devices. So is the Federal Aviation Administration - but not favorably.
Portable electronic technology is changing faster than air safety rules, according to experts at the agency, the airlines and elsewhere, who are scrambling to keep up.
Wi-Fi cards, wireless modems, hand-helds with wireless e-mail service and even cell phones with games are all what the FAA calls "intentional emitters," devices that put out radio energy at a variety of frequencies.
Passengers are carrying them onto planes that have long relied on radio navigation beacons on the ground; lately the planes also need signals from fainter sources orbiting the earth, the Global Positioning System satellites. And the planes often have their own wireless systems for equipment that was added after they were built, like emergency lighting along the aisles.
Interference between passengers' devices and the planes' systems is difficult to gauge and probably rare, experts say, but the possibility of stray signals is stirring anxiety.
"It is thorny, and it gets messy fast," said William E. Winfrey, a specialist in advanced technologies at Delta Air Lines.
Winfrey is a co-chairman, with a Boeing expert, David P. Carson, of a committee established last year at the request of the FAA to explore the problem. Scores of experts from airlines, aircraft equipment makers and consumer electronics companies have been meeting since early 2003 and hope to issue recommendations in about 18 months.
Yet new products are entering the market so fast that the committee's recommendations will be quite broad rather than tied to specific products, Winfrey said.
While travelers may know that cell phones are signal producers and comply with rules banning their use in flight, their understanding of the risks posed by other devices is fuzzier. Passengers with laptops equipped with Wi-Fi cards may turn on the laptop without grasping that it is broadcasting, looking for an access point. Some may turn on a wirelessly equipped hand-held to look at a calendar and forget that it, too, is radiating.
The seriousness of the problem is hard to gauge. Winfrey and Carson are not certain that there has ever been a problem in flight that was traced directly to electronic interference originating on board. But the idea haunts safety experts.
In theory, all devices are putting out radio frequency emissions only in the ranges assigned to them by the Federal Communications Commission and thus should not interfere with each other. But electronics experts worry about signals straying outside the assigned range. Those emissions would not have to be large to cause a problem.
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/tech/news/mar04/218154.asp
Join Date: Mar 2004
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heres my experience........a group of british football fans giving hassle all flight, start with drinking own alcohol, swearing, getting a bit rowdy and in the way. All ok and handled. During final cabin secure check before landing we realise 1 pax on phone.....when asked get the reply..."what phone?", my reply....the one attatched to your ear, "its not mine", is the response.......when told to turn it off get a mouthfull of abuse. Try talking to pax, bearing in mind he is in mid conversation on the phone that only i can see, when the beep beep of a received message heard behind me, not only one more phone on, but 2. At this stage at 1500 ft and cpt making pa about phones, they are interfering with communications.........result, passports taken from pax and had them arrested with full backing of company.......what an expensive holiday as we also refused them carriage home.
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There is absolutely no doubt in this pilot's mind that cell phones / mobile phones DO pose a significant threat to aircraft safety. It is true that they do cause interferance with radio communications, we hear the distinctive sound of their interferance every day, but frankly, it's not particularly a problem, radio reception is distorted but still understandable.
What is of far greater significance is their effect upon radio navigation facilities, these electronic devices do not have the human brain's facility to unscramble mobile phone interferance and integrate the 'good' and the 'bad' signals received into one common signal. Thus, a pilot may be flying what seems to be a perfectly good 'on-course' signal, but may, in reality, be significantly off track. On at least 2 occasions in my own experience, when tracking errors were suspected, they have been resolved by asking the cabin crew to check on mobile phone use, with dramatic change in tracking indications after the offending phones were turned off.
There is at least one fatal crash (a wide body) in which mobile phone use was a prime suspect for erroneous indications in the Instrument Landing System (ILS) leading to off-course flight into the ground. Although not the 'official' culprit in the final crash report, surviving passengers reported a flurry of mobile phone activity after the aircraft had made 2 missed approaches, and was engaged in the third.
Ladies and Gentleman of the cabin crew, you're doing a marvellous job in our front line defence, the other posts here of your handling of the cell phone addicts gives me cheer - well done!
What is of far greater significance is their effect upon radio navigation facilities, these electronic devices do not have the human brain's facility to unscramble mobile phone interferance and integrate the 'good' and the 'bad' signals received into one common signal. Thus, a pilot may be flying what seems to be a perfectly good 'on-course' signal, but may, in reality, be significantly off track. On at least 2 occasions in my own experience, when tracking errors were suspected, they have been resolved by asking the cabin crew to check on mobile phone use, with dramatic change in tracking indications after the offending phones were turned off.
There is at least one fatal crash (a wide body) in which mobile phone use was a prime suspect for erroneous indications in the Instrument Landing System (ILS) leading to off-course flight into the ground. Although not the 'official' culprit in the final crash report, surviving passengers reported a flurry of mobile phone activity after the aircraft had made 2 missed approaches, and was engaged in the third.
Ladies and Gentleman of the cabin crew, you're doing a marvellous job in our front line defence, the other posts here of your handling of the cell phone addicts gives me cheer - well done!
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I am never sure why people try to use phones on board any way.
I once tried to call ops on my cell phone from some where in the region of FL170 and got no signal. Talking to a friend who works for Nokia it is because you are basically above the antenna and out of range. So what hope does a user have of getting a singal at FL300
This doeas caus a greater risk though I guess that pax can use them at lower altitudes when the radio nav is far more critical ie ILS.
People always sight radio nave but think of all the other signals buzzing down wires from engines etc back to the data hubs on board. With more and more fully electronic aircraft the implications get far wider reaching.
Also how about Wi-Fi & blue tooth enabled laptops being used, they look for signals and push out signals. I would have thought far more worrying.
The clicking noise in your headset is so annoying. Especially when you open your flight bag at the other end and realise it is because you left your own phone on
I could not imagine anything worse than a cabin full of pax shouting down the mobile "Yeah I'm on the aircraft, yes we just took off, Sorry I can't hear you they are making an announcment on the pa system"
While we are on mobiles can they also be banned from resturants and trains
I once tried to call ops on my cell phone from some where in the region of FL170 and got no signal. Talking to a friend who works for Nokia it is because you are basically above the antenna and out of range. So what hope does a user have of getting a singal at FL300
This doeas caus a greater risk though I guess that pax can use them at lower altitudes when the radio nav is far more critical ie ILS.
People always sight radio nave but think of all the other signals buzzing down wires from engines etc back to the data hubs on board. With more and more fully electronic aircraft the implications get far wider reaching.
Also how about Wi-Fi & blue tooth enabled laptops being used, they look for signals and push out signals. I would have thought far more worrying.
The clicking noise in your headset is so annoying. Especially when you open your flight bag at the other end and realise it is because you left your own phone on
I could not imagine anything worse than a cabin full of pax shouting down the mobile "Yeah I'm on the aircraft, yes we just took off, Sorry I can't hear you they are making an announcment on the pa system"
While we are on mobiles can they also be banned from resturants and trains
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Also how about Wi-Fi & blue tooth enabled laptops being used, they look for signals and push out signals. I would have thought far more worrying.
ASIAN travellers who cannot stand being separated from email or the internet will soon be able to access both from their seats when top regional airlines offer high-speed wireless connectivity on long-haul flights.
Over the next six months, Singapore Airlines, All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines plan to roll out airborne internet services by teaming up with Connexion by Boeing, an information services unit of US aircraft builder Boeing. China Airlines and Korean Air are expected to follow suit.
"We expect the services to be popular particularly among businessmen who have long requested such in-flight services," a spokesman for Japan Airlines said in Tokyo.
First implemented by Germany's Lufthansa last month, Connexion by Boeing allows passengers to access the internet on wireless-ready laptops at speeds comparable to those at home or in the office. Airlines will also have the option to offer wired connections using ethernet cables.
The system is fully compatible with planes made by Airbus, Boeing's fierce European rival.
The service, made possible by a global network of satellites, ground stations and special antennas fitted to the aircraft, was in fact inaugurated on a Lufthansa Airbus A340-300 flying from Munich to Los Angeles on May 17.
It will cost passengers as little as $US7.95 ($11.50) for 30 minutes. For customers who want to use the service for the entire flight, there is a fixed rate depending on whether the service is short-, medium- or long-haul.
The maximum price is $US29.95 for flights of more than six hours.
"How much is it worth to get the right information for a contract?" David Friedman, vice president for marketing and direct sales of Connexion by Boeing, said during last week's CommunicAsia 2004 trade fair in Singapore.
"How much is it worth to say good night to your kids?"
Secure corporate network communications will be available, while individuals can opt to be billed by their telephone or internet service providers back home if the firms have arrangements with Connexion by Boeing.
The most promising markets in Asia are Singapore, Japan, South Korea, China, Malaysia and Thailand, Friedman said.
"This is not only for the people in First Class," he stressed, saying passengers might simply want to pursue personal interests like sport.
"If I'm in flight for 10 to 12 hours, you're talking about 100 to 150 emails," he said, adding that having access to email "reduces e-stress, the stress of email pile-up".
Company spokesmen said Singapore Airlines planned to launch the service in the third quarter this year.
All Nippon Airways also plans to launch it in the northern autumn, while Japan Airlines will start it in December on flights between Narita and London, eventually offering it on flights to the United States.
Korean Air said it would start operating it in early 2005 on its 33 long-haul Boeing 747-400s and 777-200ERs.
Mr Friedman said revenue from access charges would be split with airlines, which will pay a service charge to have the equipment installed. Business jets and ocean-going vessels can also use Connexion.
In addition to getting a cut of the revenue, airlines would realise that internet access would be seen by passengers as an essential service, he said. Some might even switch carriers on the basis of connectivity.
(AFP)
Join Date: Feb 2004
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When pax board with their mobiles still on, or have it glued to their ears, i really want to show them my magic trick.
Place phone in a black bag, take one hammer, smash phone to piecies, then with a wave of my magic tea pot *****waves tea pot over the bag, chanting my magical gobbly gook**** open the bag and..............
....ta da, it falls out in peices
Perhaps i just need more practice for it to turn into block of gold
i shall try harder tomorrow!!
EB
Place phone in a black bag, take one hammer, smash phone to piecies, then with a wave of my magic tea pot *****waves tea pot over the bag, chanting my magical gobbly gook**** open the bag and..............
....ta da, it falls out in peices
Perhaps i just need more practice for it to turn into block of gold
i shall try harder tomorrow!!
EB
