BA bidding system and staff travel questions
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BA bidding system and staff travel questions
Hello! I had a question that maybe someone from the world's fave could answer?
On EF LHR, you bid for your schedule with Carmen I believe. How many days can you bid off in a row, how easy is it to bid off days off together? Also, if you bid days off altogether, does that mean you can't use any remaining points for preferences such as max trips and min day turns etc? Also, if you were to bid off a block of days off at the end of one month, and then another block of days off at the beginning of the next, is it the case that you could have almost 2 weeks off?
I also heard that commuting is easier on EF LHR than WW LGW due to the roster patterns at LGW and no bidding allowed. What about at WW LHR, no bidding? How do commuters do it? Which fleet/base is best for commuting? Any tips?
Final question(!), with regard to staff travel, I heard that BA had moved away from bog standard ID90 and now had lower fares for staff travel than just ID90 on full Y. Is there a ZED agreement in place now, or how does it work? What would you typically pay for roundtrip LHR-ORD or LHR-YVR for instance?
Thanks for any help!
On EF LHR, you bid for your schedule with Carmen I believe. How many days can you bid off in a row, how easy is it to bid off days off together? Also, if you bid days off altogether, does that mean you can't use any remaining points for preferences such as max trips and min day turns etc? Also, if you were to bid off a block of days off at the end of one month, and then another block of days off at the beginning of the next, is it the case that you could have almost 2 weeks off?
I also heard that commuting is easier on EF LHR than WW LGW due to the roster patterns at LGW and no bidding allowed. What about at WW LHR, no bidding? How do commuters do it? Which fleet/base is best for commuting? Any tips?
Final question(!), with regard to staff travel, I heard that BA had moved away from bog standard ID90 and now had lower fares for staff travel than just ID90 on full Y. Is there a ZED agreement in place now, or how does it work? What would you typically pay for roundtrip LHR-ORD or LHR-YVR for instance?
Thanks for any help!
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Alright. I'm a new entrant but I will try to help you, on account of there having been no response so far.
1 : You're right about bidding for your trips, as far as I'm aware. At LHR EF you can do it immediately, but at LGW WW you have to wait a year before you can bid.
I'm happy with what I've been given so far, so don't really mind.
2 : You're able to do some really clever things with days off. Say, for example, you have four days off after a trip. Take these four days, add a UK Request to the end of it (a weekend off) and then four days of leave and you have 10 days off but only four of them from your allowances. You can play around to get what you want.
3 : Commuting...... To Eurofleet???? I dunno about that. I know that if I had been given Eurofleet, I would have HAD to move to London and I only live in Aberdeen.
4 : You don't get staff benefits (travel, that is) until after six months of service. It's a bit of a p1sser, actually!
1 : You're right about bidding for your trips, as far as I'm aware. At LHR EF you can do it immediately, but at LGW WW you have to wait a year before you can bid.
I'm happy with what I've been given so far, so don't really mind.
2 : You're able to do some really clever things with days off. Say, for example, you have four days off after a trip. Take these four days, add a UK Request to the end of it (a weekend off) and then four days of leave and you have 10 days off but only four of them from your allowances. You can play around to get what you want.
3 : Commuting...... To Eurofleet???? I dunno about that. I know that if I had been given Eurofleet, I would have HAD to move to London and I only live in Aberdeen.
4 : You don't get staff benefits (travel, that is) until after six months of service. It's a bit of a p1sser, actually!
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Hey Eddy,
Thanks for the info!
I'd heard you could 'work the system' with the days off, wasn't sure how it works but I guess you get the hang of it after a while!
I know that you could not live exclusively outside of London on LHR EF - ie you couldn't live in Aberdeen and commute after every trip, but if you had a 'crashpad' in London for between trips/availables, couldn't you block all your days off together and fly home to Aberdeen. Away for 2/3 weeks then a week or 10 days off at home?
I'm lucky in that I have family that live in Central London so I have a place to stay when in town.
Good luck with everything. I'd heard that things had changed and you got staff travel on BA straight away, I guess that's not the case after all. Bummer!
Thanks for the info!
I'd heard you could 'work the system' with the days off, wasn't sure how it works but I guess you get the hang of it after a while!
I know that you could not live exclusively outside of London on LHR EF - ie you couldn't live in Aberdeen and commute after every trip, but if you had a 'crashpad' in London for between trips/availables, couldn't you block all your days off together and fly home to Aberdeen. Away for 2/3 weeks then a week or 10 days off at home?
I'm lucky in that I have family that live in Central London so I have a place to stay when in town.
Good luck with everything. I'd heard that things had changed and you got staff travel on BA straight away, I guess that's not the case after all. Bummer!
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Carmen is crap. You can bid for whatever you want, whether you'll get it or not is like flipping a coin. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.
You can bid for as many days off in a row as you want. Carmen has to work within scheme rules though. 1 day off in 7, 2 in 14, etc 7 in 28. Weeks work in gmt starting su 00.01 in 24hr blocks. So 'No' to the 2 weeks question unless combined with leave.
Carmen doesn't like end of one month, start of another days off blocks. The old system did. Grrrrr
, and I was happier. It likes 6 and 3 and 5 and 2 type patterns. If you work within this pattern, and bid for 3 day trips without specific destinations, it can sometimes work well. However the overall number of trips can vary, as can other peoples bids for them. A bid that works one month, fails another.
It works on a % achieved satisfaction type thing. So days off and trip bids are combined for bidders.
People commute on all fleets. W/W lhr can generate the most 'time off' after a trip, but isn't available as a new entrant option. In fact it is allegedly not feasible to choose which fleet you join. Eurofleet LGW would be the hardest option, for many reasons.
There is no easy answer, other than the fact that lots of people do commute from all over.
Not aware of any changes in staff travel. Bealine is your best bet for this type of question.
You can bid for as many days off in a row as you want. Carmen has to work within scheme rules though. 1 day off in 7, 2 in 14, etc 7 in 28. Weeks work in gmt starting su 00.01 in 24hr blocks. So 'No' to the 2 weeks question unless combined with leave.
Carmen doesn't like end of one month, start of another days off blocks. The old system did. Grrrrr
, and I was happier. It likes 6 and 3 and 5 and 2 type patterns. If you work within this pattern, and bid for 3 day trips without specific destinations, it can sometimes work well. However the overall number of trips can vary, as can other peoples bids for them. A bid that works one month, fails another.It works on a % achieved satisfaction type thing. So days off and trip bids are combined for bidders.
People commute on all fleets. W/W lhr can generate the most 'time off' after a trip, but isn't available as a new entrant option. In fact it is allegedly not feasible to choose which fleet you join. Eurofleet LGW would be the hardest option, for many reasons.
There is no easy answer, other than the fact that lots of people do commute from all over.
Not aware of any changes in staff travel. Bealine is your best bet for this type of question.
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Hi There,
Just to answer with regard to commuting EF LHR or WW LGW.
I commute from NCL for WW LGW and i must admit have had no problems whatsover. LHR would be a nightmare for me purely because of the demand for the flight and a lot other staff members also commuting.
I cannot comment on the bidding system as it is diff at LGW but with the day you land and 3 MBTs afterwards you end up with 4 days off after each trip which for me works really well. In fact I landed yesterday from TPA and off until Friday.
Staff travel is 6 months wait for concessions, have heard no rumours to say any other but easy options for commuters is to purchase hotlines which if commuting from the UK are around GBP53.00. At least with them you have a confirmed seat and you are not like us dafties who usually commute the morning of our trip and sometimes faced with the will I wont I get on, and then making a mad dash for the gate when your name is called, only for your bags not to make it!!
On a positive note this has never happened to me, but heard lots of tales.
Happy flying
m
Just to answer with regard to commuting EF LHR or WW LGW.
I commute from NCL for WW LGW and i must admit have had no problems whatsover. LHR would be a nightmare for me purely because of the demand for the flight and a lot other staff members also commuting.
I cannot comment on the bidding system as it is diff at LGW but with the day you land and 3 MBTs afterwards you end up with 4 days off after each trip which for me works really well. In fact I landed yesterday from TPA and off until Friday.
Staff travel is 6 months wait for concessions, have heard no rumours to say any other but easy options for commuters is to purchase hotlines which if commuting from the UK are around GBP53.00. At least with them you have a confirmed seat and you are not like us dafties who usually commute the morning of our trip and sometimes faced with the will I wont I get on, and then making a mad dash for the gate when your name is called, only for your bags not to make it!!
On a positive note this has never happened to me, but heard lots of tales.
Happy flying
m
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Thanks for the replies, the mists are clearing!!! Lol.
I heard that commuting at BA was not uncommon.
Everyone seems to be kinda pissed at Carmen, I hope they can work on further fine-tuning the system. Bidding is always subjective as you can never give everyone what they want, sometimes I think 'bidline' is an easier system (where the line of flying are constructed first, then you bid on them, so you know exactly what you're bidding for). But then, I've also worked at airlines where preferential bidding (similar to Carmen) can work really well for people that commute/have familys/want more control over their schedule.
So, within UK Regs, you can work 6 on 1 off week 1, 6 on 1 off week 2, then have a block of days off I guess which is not too bad. Whether you can bid and hold that in Carmen seems to be another matter!
Eddy / Golden Runways - do you find it easy to hold 3 day trips or back to back trips, or does everyone want the trips and you get stuck on lots of day turns (there and backs)?
Enjoy flying, see you soon!
I heard that commuting at BA was not uncommon.
Everyone seems to be kinda pissed at Carmen, I hope they can work on further fine-tuning the system. Bidding is always subjective as you can never give everyone what they want, sometimes I think 'bidline' is an easier system (where the line of flying are constructed first, then you bid on them, so you know exactly what you're bidding for). But then, I've also worked at airlines where preferential bidding (similar to Carmen) can work really well for people that commute/have familys/want more control over their schedule.
So, within UK Regs, you can work 6 on 1 off week 1, 6 on 1 off week 2, then have a block of days off I guess which is not too bad. Whether you can bid and hold that in Carmen seems to be another matter!
Eddy / Golden Runways - do you find it easy to hold 3 day trips or back to back trips, or does everyone want the trips and you get stuck on lots of day turns (there and backs)?
Enjoy flying, see you soon!
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No you require 1 day off for every seven days worked, and then 2 in 14.
eg 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8off,9,10,11,12,13off 14off. The middle day off is moveable within a short range. This is the minimum scheme allows. Then the next rule is 7 in 28, although the (lhr e/f) industrial agreement requires 10 a calendar month. You can technically work 7 24 hour blocks over 8 days, although I don’t think Carmen is clever enough to do this. You could try and bid for a larger block of days off at the end of day 12, keeping in the minimum 7 in 28 rule for the rest of the month, which is a rolling rule.
You can go for months with a good roster, which for me is 3 day trips, and then get a whole month with there and backs. If the satisfaction rating is 65% (I think) then it aims to give you this much of your bid. However it can grant you the lowest priority bids, miss the highest bids, and statistically still give you ‘satisfaction’. It sucks. The old system, when worked cleverly around scheme would give you a minimum of 8 out of 10 day off bids. But it was only for time off bidding. BASSA will mediate with scheduling for crap rosters. The pilots ‘bidline’ system keeps the pilots fairly happy. W/W 'time off' is sort of generated according to the work acheived. Scheme still applies.
I have spoken to many of the commuters, and very few have trouble missing connections to work. A little bit more waiting around to get home. Using middle of the day flights will obviously make it easier. When Carmen works, it can be good. It lacks any consistency though. It definitely prefers 6 and 3 or 5 and 2 type patterns.
eg 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8off,9,10,11,12,13off 14off. The middle day off is moveable within a short range. This is the minimum scheme allows. Then the next rule is 7 in 28, although the (lhr e/f) industrial agreement requires 10 a calendar month. You can technically work 7 24 hour blocks over 8 days, although I don’t think Carmen is clever enough to do this. You could try and bid for a larger block of days off at the end of day 12, keeping in the minimum 7 in 28 rule for the rest of the month, which is a rolling rule.
You can go for months with a good roster, which for me is 3 day trips, and then get a whole month with there and backs. If the satisfaction rating is 65% (I think) then it aims to give you this much of your bid. However it can grant you the lowest priority bids, miss the highest bids, and statistically still give you ‘satisfaction’. It sucks. The old system, when worked cleverly around scheme would give you a minimum of 8 out of 10 day off bids. But it was only for time off bidding. BASSA will mediate with scheduling for crap rosters. The pilots ‘bidline’ system keeps the pilots fairly happy. W/W 'time off' is sort of generated according to the work acheived. Scheme still applies.
I have spoken to many of the commuters, and very few have trouble missing connections to work. A little bit more waiting around to get home. Using middle of the day flights will obviously make it easier. When Carmen works, it can be good. It lacks any consistency though. It definitely prefers 6 and 3 or 5 and 2 type patterns.
Last edited by Golden Runways; 10th Mar 2004 at 00:58.
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Sorry to be straying over to Gatwick Worldwide again, but this information may very well transfer over to Heathrow Euro too.
As a new entrant, Scheduling offer you the best trips to try and get your experience and knowledge levels up.
In this first month of flying, I've done an Antigua Back-2-Back, Barbados, Tampa, Dubai and a few days of QRS. Basically, an EXCELLENT month in terms of ££££s. Waiting to find out how much I'll earn but expect it to be close to £1700.00 this month.
By the time that I'm all done with being "given" the good trips, I should be in a position to request 'em so It'll be absolutely grand!
Surely the same happens at Heathrow. They'll probably do what they can to make sure you get what you ask for.
As a new entrant, Scheduling offer you the best trips to try and get your experience and knowledge levels up.
In this first month of flying, I've done an Antigua Back-2-Back, Barbados, Tampa, Dubai and a few days of QRS. Basically, an EXCELLENT month in terms of ££££s. Waiting to find out how much I'll earn but expect it to be close to £1700.00 this month.
By the time that I'm all done with being "given" the good trips, I should be in a position to request 'em so It'll be absolutely grand!
Surely the same happens at Heathrow. They'll probably do what they can to make sure you get what you ask for.
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What's QRS? I keep seeing it mentioned. I'm guessing it's some kind of standby?
Also, back at LHR, I know that the 777 and 747 are l/haul fleet. Are WW fleet crew trained on the 767? I know that at EF LHR the crews get 767. Who flies the L/Haul 767 stuff? I know that LHR-BWI is a 767 trip - is that WW or EF crew?
Final question, how does Overtime work, can you request it, how is it awarded, is it worth doing?
Also, back at LHR, I know that the 777 and 747 are l/haul fleet. Are WW fleet crew trained on the 767? I know that at EF LHR the crews get 767. Who flies the L/Haul 767 stuff? I know that LHR-BWI is a 767 trip - is that WW or EF crew?
Final question, how does Overtime work, can you request it, how is it awarded, is it worth doing?
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QRS = Quick Response Standby, as a commuter it's worth being a QRS volunteer as the company provides hotel accom for this where as if you're on home standby you can be required to be there in 2 hours so you have to get your own 'pad'
As a volunteer you're more likely to get QRS than home sby
I think it's 45 mins notice from QRS but you're given a pager and set time parameters.
It's quite a good crack as there's usually plenty of other crew to catch up with.
As a volunteer you're more likely to get QRS than home sby
I think it's 45 mins notice from QRS but you're given a pager and set time parameters.
It's quite a good crack as there's usually plenty of other crew to catch up with.
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Eddy
Pleased to hear you enjoying BA, and you have had some fun trips which earn a few £.
Whilst not to shatter your illusions scheduling were giving what was on offer or filling in the gaps on the roster. Feb/March has a lot of leave due to the leave year ending on 31st March.
WWLGW routes are all fairly "nice" places and the DXB brought you up to LHR.
EF LHR work with CARMAN. Now she isn`t friendly and doesn`t favour.
There have been alleged cases where roster fixing was going on and the unions were involved. [This was a few years back now]
All the best and enjoy..Good Luck
Pleased to hear you enjoying BA, and you have had some fun trips which earn a few £.
Whilst not to shatter your illusions scheduling were giving what was on offer or filling in the gaps on the roster. Feb/March has a lot of leave due to the leave year ending on 31st March.
WWLGW routes are all fairly "nice" places and the DXB brought you up to LHR.
EF LHR work with CARMAN. Now she isn`t friendly and doesn`t favour.
There have been alleged cases where roster fixing was going on and the unions were involved. [This was a few years back now]
All the best and enjoy..Good Luck
Last edited by Tiger; 11th Mar 2004 at 15:08.
