QF LCC, Erosion of condition, and the FAAA

[ditzyboy]

JetCr#p

Jetstar...

"It's new. It's now. It's never been done before! -
Cram in the seats, no IFE and treat the staff like crap and call it innovative."

177 pax in an A320... Should be fun. Especially with no seat allocation. How about CattleJet?

Notice how the word innovative made its way into the press release. Every Qantas press release says the word 'innovative'. I am surprised 'contemporary' didn't make it in too! Oh that's right... The food boxes with nothing in them were contemporary.

What is innovative about cramming 177 people into a plane designed to carry around 162 comfortably? You can't cover the seats in cheap leather and call it innnovative!

No video IFE. There's where it's innovative! Why not have the safety cards stuck on the seat back in front? Very Ryanair. How much will a glass of water be? How much for biscuit? How much do I pay for extra legroom? All the glamour is gone, kids. It's official.

It's all vile. We are going to bear the brunt of disgruntled and angry customers. Just watch.

[peanut pusher]

Easy fixed ditz

Don't like it ??
Vote with your feet and leave

[QF skywalker]

peanut pusher - what are you going to do when you are pushed out of short haul by the new airline taking over your shorthaul routes ? vote with your feet ??????? [you are short haul no ? you have claimed to be a short haul CSM but in another thread (QF inflight security) you claim to be a LH f/a ??? ] (sorry just a bit confused ??? )

Say goodbye to your new qantas morrissey uniforms impulse boys and girl and get ready to wear your new "coke" sponsored polo shirts in your A320 with "coke" advertising all over the fuselage.

I wonder if we will see a freeze on DJ recruitment now ?

[go_dj]

Ditzyboy

Agree with Peanut Pusher, if the kitchens to hot.............

Your company Impulse will come under new management,
and untill they announce the new routes and rosters in Jan
you hav'nt a clue whats going to happen so take a chill pill
or take a walk, you are presently running around in circles
like a chook with its head cut off.

[peanut pusher]

Yes ditz, jumped ship at the beginning of last month

Ditz, jumped ship to long haul
Finished training with Biscuit Chuka a fortnight ago.
Seen the writing on the wall about 18 months ago so secretly slipped away.
Long hual is were it started for me so a full circle just like life.
Funny biscuit sat next to me and in my class for a week and a half and din't know who I was but after reading this he'll be onto me.
Back to original topic, if it gets you down or your not having fun anymore, just leave it's really not worth the job if you start to hate it.

PS Anybody know how to change your profile, mine needs updating.

PSS yes it is hard to take orders after giving them for so long, I almost did the decent and arrival PA's on my first 2 flights.

[ditzyboy]

Peanut Pusher -
It was QFskywaler who stated you were LH or SH or whatever. I don't care who you work for.

Thanks for your support go_DJ and PP. *sarcasm* Seeing as this venture does not effect you in the slightest how easy it is for you both to say such things. For your information. I have applied to Emirates, Virgin Atlantic and easyJet in the past 24 hours. Looking to also apply to Monarch and TCX for the summer season. Thanks for your concern. You know your bee's wax... Why don't you mind it.

[peanut pusher]

It was support, silly boy

Get that hand bag twisted don't you.
Good luck with the applications

[QF skywalker]

go_dj,

I'm interested to know your opinion on what your reaction might be if pacific blue employees eventually start undercutting you and take over some DJ routes because they are cheaper ? Or..... if things at DJ start going pear shaped because jetstar ends up kicking dj's a** and DJ have to start sending some of the leased 30 737NG's back to their lessors ? ( remember the whole DJ lfeet is leased, it could easily be wound up overnight just like compass ) Please leave off ditz - we are all scared over here at qflink, our careers in s/h and l/h are now OVER so we have every right to be carrying on like chickens with heads cut off !! please give us the same support that we at qf would give your crew if things went tits up for you.


hang in there ditz, you would be a huge loss to the QF group if we were to lose you.

[go_dj]

QF Skywalker wrote

if things at DJ start going pear shaped because jetstar ends up kicking dj's a** and DJ have to start sending some of the leased 30 737NG's back to their lessors ? ( remember the whole DJ lfeet is leased

In your dreams- FYI the whole DJ fleet is not leased, 5 are being
purchased, do you honestly think for one minute that VB are
just sitting back doing nothing? there will a few more moves
before the 1st A320 arrives next June, as for Ditzy applying
to EasyJet, he will really know he's done a days work if he
finishes up there- they operate with one less F/A than they
do here in Aussie. JetStar will slow DJs growth alright, but
sadly the main victim will be QF shorthaul.

[ditzyboy]

PP -
Yes. I am a very silly boy. Sorry about that. Your support was hidden I guess. I had to re-read your post to pick up on your concern. Sorry.

I am very disheartened that my employer is selling us out and I know for a fact that my conditions will be worse. It is a FACT that I will be getting alot less money for working harder. Management have guaranteed overnights will be minimal, if there is any at all.

I do not see why Impulse made QF so much money but it is still necessary to do this. Also this will be uniform number five in three years. Pardon me for feeling a bit of a gofer!

I totally agree that if you are not happy you should leave. Hence my applications overseas. I really do love Impulse as it is today and the flying that I do. I am also the only person I know that loves the 717. So I am very content now and upset to be losing it all in a matter of months.

My previous experience in the Impulse / LCC set up leaves me aprehensive to say the least!

Thanks again for your concern. And I am sorry I mis-read your post. Put yourself in my shoes and think about why I might me the least bit concerned. I truely think my feelings are not unwarrented given my history with the Pulse and working in a LCC environment.

My experience also suggest that many present Pulse FAs will leave within three months of the new working arrangements. That I am willing to place money on. Our decent conditions will erode quickly.

Sorry guys. Just being realistic here. And keeping in character by getting my handbag in a not and clutching my pearls. I wouldn't be Ditzyboy if it weren't for outrageous posts and a bit of humour.

Have a good night people. Welcome to JetStar

Ditzyboy xox

[QF skywalker]

go_dj - thanks for the correction re some of the DJ fleet to be soon owned by the company, however please answer my questions I put to you in my previous post !!!

( please remember I am not bagging DJ here, just getting your opinion on what your reaction would be if this happened to you )

[go_dj]

Sorry QF Skywalker for not answering your 1st question- if
VB decided to use Christchurch based Pacific Blue here in
Australia and reduce current VB crews as you are suggesting,
I would take PPs advice and either wear it or walk- but remember
Pacific Blue' Christchurch base is just that a NZ base, rumour has
it there will also be an Brisbane based Pacific Blue.

As with PPs post I was trying to suggest to Ditzy to wait and
see what develops regarding future rosters before doing something stupid, afterall Jan is only a month away.

[ditzyboy]

"When we took over Impulse two years ago, we kept their cost structure in Qantas," chief executive Geoff Dixon said. "People have always worked under that cost structure and we've kept the airline there for a rainy day."

All our hard work for Geoff's "rainy day". What a w@nker! What an insensitive thing to say!

go_dj -
I just don't want to stick around too long and not have anywhere to go. For sure I would love to stay put. Regardless of the coming drop in pay and conditions (be it next May or in 2005) I fancy myself a bit of a 'glamour puss' and will not sell cups of tea or coffee. Nor do I want to accept abuse from pax sitting in seats with 29" of legroom and fighting over non-assigned seats. Just my view that my career should be going forward, not backward.

Re. easyJet... Just keeping my options open. Could live with my uncle near Luton so would make it like a working holiday.

Will the BNE based Pacific Blue FAs get as little money as the NZ based ones? You guys must be angry about all that.

[Bodum]

Ditz...

Sorry your so upset by all this..It really is dissapointing, not just for the regionals, but im sure the proverbial will hit the fan sooner than later for us as well in Short Haul.

Im dissapointed for you Ditz because your obviously very passionate about your job, as I am about mine.. I have worked regional, and in my days there, conditions were worse than they are now. A day doesnt go by when I remind myself how lucky I am to have been able to transfer.

All I can say to you Ditz is that you all do a great job and will no doubt continue to...Keep your chin up and NEVER lose that sense of humour. Even when you're angry your posts are still hilariously funny to read.

On a positive note I can give you a new name for the aircraft you will be working on... In the Ansett A320 Skystar days I heard it referred to as the "Death Star" many times...Kind of ironic hey

Also Ditz..Have impulse management outlined the conditions you will be working under? Let us know what they are like as news comes to hand.

Take care of yourself

[GalleyHag]

Ditzyboy

I know we have not always seen eye to eye on a number of issues. But I certainly do feel for you. I could not think of anything worse than going from your current working life to the LCC, considering you started with the original Impulse product.

Change within our industry is always going to happen if we like it or not BUT that doesnt mean we have to be happy about it either.

Your posts indicate that an LCC is not for you (it wouldnt be for me either). Therefore you just need to look for alternatives. It is very sad that your working life as you know it now will be gone and I am sure this will also apply to me at short haul within the next 3-5 years.

Try not to get yourself down about things that are now out of your control.

Just out of interest:

1. Are all crew being transfered to Melbourne?
2. Will you work under a new EBA once the existing EBA expires?

[ditzyboy]

Many thanks for your support, guys! Despite my getting all worked up! I guess it is all the emomtion of having been there already and being sold off so cheaply by management. Geoff Dixon's "rainy day" comment REALLY lit my wick! Oh I was angry!

Our EBA is great for the flying we do now but I will lose a considerable amount of money with all the day flying. When we were Impulse we had no EBA so that is why things were so horrendous. But even now there is nothing to stop them from rostering 0530 SYD-MEL (4 sectors, 10 hours) six times in a row, one day off, then again. We need to build some additional fences into our current award to stop them from doing that. Sure it would mean we run out of hours quickly but the company never looked at it from that angle. Just because you get to 130 hours in less that three weeks doesn't mean a thing to them.

There are also some other factors I would like the FAAA to address in order to reduce fatigue. Imagine a roster that consisted entirely of 4 sector duties on the same routes. (MEL-SYD-BNE for instance). You get over it very quickly. Repetitive flying is fatigue inducing in itself.

As I mentioned being an LCC the company will try to save money wherever possible. That is the whole point of the operation. Little regard is given to whether or not the flying is repetitive or boring. Also in our current EBA there is nothing stopping them from working you six 10 hour days in a row. This of course leads to complacency and fatigue. A prime example recently was when HBA base only did a morning double MEL or an arvo double MEL. Only 8 hour days but the crew complained about the lack of overnight money and "boring flying". So much the company was forced to do something.

Also 70% of our crew will not be used to working in a LCC environment, which any ex Pulse or VirginBlue FA will tell you is very very unique. The service we offer now is a far cry for the holiday crowd JetStar will attract. The free seating will be a debacle and cause many headaches for cabin crew. Job satisfaction and morale will drop. Especially when we start vacuuming and cleaning loos!

Not to mention our new pax will be complaining about the lack of pillows, blankets, magazines, video IFE, poor legroom, no preffered seating, no FF points or free food. Australians do not take well to change. Anyone care to remember the public reaction to our 'contempory' boxes? I remember when we stopped metal cutlery in Y class. The reaction was just amazing!

Impulse FAs will be earning less money for working more hours / sectors and disconteted pax to deal with on a daily basis. Not to mention the change in uniform (number 5 for some of us!) and now working for the "cheap Qantas"... Morale will drop I can assure you. Heaven forbid they take away staff travel. There will be mutiny!

I don't think the bulk of our ex-AN colleagues will cope. Many of our crew are not suited to the low cost airline deal. I myself am one of them. When we operated as Impulse we atleast had free refreshments, great seating and newspapers/magazines. The bulk of our pax were suits and it was all good. I didn't mind it. I just can't see me keeping my sanity under the new arrangements. The first pax I get not wearing shoes and I am out of there! Instead of "Good morning ladies and gentlemen..." it will be "G'day Shazza and Dazza!" I feel so unclean already

GalleyHag -
Thanks for your understanding. I knew we would agree on something!

Impulse has indicated all flying will be day trips. (Hence my whinge about losing money!) Our current EBA isn't really suited to that style of operation and gives the company too much flexibility. Yes flexibility is great for both crew and the company when your crew are away for an average of two or three days. But the nature of repeated four sector day trips requires some additional rostering rules.

When our EBA runs out in 2005 I guess it is just up for negotiation as per usual. With the recent negotiations you can't say any division / subsidiary faired all that great except maybe the Pulse. Everyone else seemed to lose a bit here and there - especially EAA. So I don't hold much hope of dramatic pay increases or better conditions in 2005 if that is what you mean.

Impulse are saying the current base structure will remain. I can see HBA closing as planes will not be overnighting there (except maybe the return of mainline). Also I cannot see the dual basing in QLD working either. It is not working now and there is only one sign on ex OOL (a three day trip). The crew would not be pleased about driving from BNE to do a 10 hour day, drive home and repeat up to five or six times! It just wouldn't work.

[Wirraway]

DitzyBoy

Have you ever tried for Virgin Blue?, plenty of overnights there 8-13
per month.

Wirraway

[ShesGreatintheGalley]

ditzyboy:

i didnt mean to come across as being negative about your opinions on the new LCC, i guess, as you said, i wasnt around in the pulse days and dont have that 'sold out feeling'.
if that was why you sent me that txt the other day asking for my opinion and i wrote back about doom and gloom, then i am truly sorry if i upset you.. its just hard me trying to feel what you are when i have no idea what its like, so please accept my apologies and a hug!

i was on a dash8 in rok today and spoke to a lovely FA who asked me if we were going to be the new jetstar company, and i said yes.
she told me that she was going to apply tonight for a job with us.. apparently they (eastern) have been told there is no more career progression to SH (due to the new LCC) and she wants to get out badly.
I nearly cried for her, as i was sitting on the jumpseat taking off all i could think about was these poor regionals who have lost any hope at all of moving on and up, and either need to quit their jobs to get better pay or stay where they are and watch their flying go down the drain. As much as we may be cutting a raw deal with bush-pasengers and hippy families with 23 kids who are on their first plane ride ever and bring their own BBQ chicken and macdonalds along with them for lunch, at least we will be still getting the same pay and relativley same conditions.. at least we still get staff travel.. we could be a hell of a lot worse and as some predicted, be forced to reapply for our jobs and become casuals with a labour hire company or something for $20K a year.

I truly hope that QF decide they will rethink their decision to cut career progression to SH for regionals. they work a hell of a lot harder than we ever will on our 'superjets' and being left in the back on ****ty pay and no hope is truly saddening. they are the ones being sold out, not us.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Interesting times ahead eh guys?

I spoke with both an Impulse management person and one of our FAAA staff, and they both reaffirmed the following:
a) The current EBA would be adhered to for Impulse (as it stands now as QantasLink) as well as for JetStar
b) Career progression still exists for all the regionals - including Impulse. The only problem has been the fact that with continuing problems regarding surpluses, Iraq, etc. with no external recruitment = no career progression (as yet).

I'd say "watch this space" right now for news on progression, etc. All early days just yet, with 100's of questions and no answers...yet.

I empathise with Ditz, but find it interesting that he's considering EasyJet as an option, when they do the same thing as JetStar is proposing, including no seat allocation (and with fewer crew)! Oh well - knock yourself out I say!

Like I always say - it's nothing a chardy doesn't fix.

[ShesGreatintheGalley]

Like I always say - it's nothing a chardy doesn't fix

lol or three! does that mean that this girl i spoke too today may of had it wrong and eastern still have career progression?