Empty seats in Club Class?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
From: Blackburn
Phew!!!!
Well since I was the one who mentioned the word "moronic" (or meant to, thanks Snoopy!), let me be the one to respond.
First of all davethelimey, I did NOT call you moronic, what I said, or intended to say was that
"your view of the situation was moronic".
That being said, maybe I was being rude and I apologise if that was how you took it.
This forum attracts a majority of viewers and contributors from the aviation industry, who would never bring up a scenario you envisaged. However, I should have noted you are not part of the industry and tailored my response so.
If I can put your question into perspective, might I enquire as to your employment? I will continue upon your reply.
Regards
edited for spelling
Well since I was the one who mentioned the word "moronic" (or meant to, thanks Snoopy!), let me be the one to respond.
First of all davethelimey, I did NOT call you moronic, what I said, or intended to say was that
"your view of the situation was moronic".
That being said, maybe I was being rude and I apologise if that was how you took it.
This forum attracts a majority of viewers and contributors from the aviation industry, who would never bring up a scenario you envisaged. However, I should have noted you are not part of the industry and tailored my response so.
If I can put your question into perspective, might I enquire as to your employment? I will continue upon your reply.
Regards
edited for spelling
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Zürich, Switzerland
It's about greed...let's call it the way it is!
Flyblue, maybe you are right, but excuse me if I voice my displeasure (in no uncertrain terms) at a blatant (not even thinly disguised) display of greed. Why should people expect things that they are not entitled to? Why is that some people think that they are ALWAYS entitled...however little they have paid.
Where is the line between that and dishonesty? Two weeks ago I left my cellphone in a hire car when I returned it. I went back 30 minutes later to see if it had been found. No, it hadn't and yet the only people who had handled the car were the hire company staff. Someone had found it and felt that "finders keepers" was appropriate. It's about greed....
There's just too much of this crap around and there is no excuse for it. Just get with the program people...you get what you pay for or what you have earnt. If you fly hundreds of thousands of miles per year, you have a gold card and you score an upgrade, consider it earnt. If it's the first time you have flown and you get a cheapo ticket only valid on flights and dates shown, nonref, non endorseable...well you will get the seat you paid for and why SHOULD you expect anything else?
When I was a station manager (many moons ago) I had a journalist come to the check-in counter with the cheapest ticket he could have found and tell me he wanted a seat in business (not even ask politely I hasten to add - not that it would have made any difference) because he had to work. The answer was simple: next time get your editor to spend the money on a business class ticket.
The thing that ticked me off most with davethelimey's post was the feeling that he was ENTITLED to the business class because a seat was free. As I said clearly...he is entitled to what he has paid for...end of story.
[Diatribe over]
Where is the line between that and dishonesty? Two weeks ago I left my cellphone in a hire car when I returned it. I went back 30 minutes later to see if it had been found. No, it hadn't and yet the only people who had handled the car were the hire company staff. Someone had found it and felt that "finders keepers" was appropriate. It's about greed....
There's just too much of this crap around and there is no excuse for it. Just get with the program people...you get what you pay for or what you have earnt. If you fly hundreds of thousands of miles per year, you have a gold card and you score an upgrade, consider it earnt. If it's the first time you have flown and you get a cheapo ticket only valid on flights and dates shown, nonref, non endorseable...well you will get the seat you paid for and why SHOULD you expect anything else?
When I was a station manager (many moons ago) I had a journalist come to the check-in counter with the cheapest ticket he could have found and tell me he wanted a seat in business (not even ask politely I hasten to add - not that it would have made any difference) because he had to work. The answer was simple: next time get your editor to spend the money on a business class ticket.
The thing that ticked me off most with davethelimey's post was the feeling that he was ENTITLED to the business class because a seat was free. As I said clearly...he is entitled to what he has paid for...end of story.
[Diatribe over]
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 0
From: Surrey Hills
" he indeed has never been rude to anyone, and as naive as his questions may seem, he deserves respect. "
Why respect? In this World of Political Correctness he is still a freeloader expecting something for nothing. Why should I 'respect' someone who expects to upgrade himself simply because the seats are there? They aren't his seats, they belong to the airline that has stumped up the 40 million+ to operate the aircraft, pay the crew and provide a transport service at different levels of price. You get what you pay for. If I had stumped up a 1st class fare and then found some creep sliding in expecting a freebie I would feel I had been short changed and probably not use the airline again, if the crew allowed it to happen.
Of course the unfortunately named
'davethelimey' [ he missed adding the 's' in front of limey] feels he has been maligned but if you ask dumb questions don't bleat when you get replies that come from people who have paid hard earned money for their seats.
Just off to buy a Lada but will drive out in the Ferrari because no one is sitting in it.
B J Against the ' why shouldn't I have anything I want when I feel like it ' brigade.
Why respect? In this World of Political Correctness he is still a freeloader expecting something for nothing. Why should I 'respect' someone who expects to upgrade himself simply because the seats are there? They aren't his seats, they belong to the airline that has stumped up the 40 million+ to operate the aircraft, pay the crew and provide a transport service at different levels of price. You get what you pay for. If I had stumped up a 1st class fare and then found some creep sliding in expecting a freebie I would feel I had been short changed and probably not use the airline again, if the crew allowed it to happen.
Of course the unfortunately named
'davethelimey' [ he missed adding the 's' in front of limey] feels he has been maligned but if you ask dumb questions don't bleat when you get replies that come from people who have paid hard earned money for their seats.
Just off to buy a Lada but will drive out in the Ferrari because no one is sitting in it.
B J Against the ' why shouldn't I have anything I want when I feel like it ' brigade.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,844
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
We get this question in Pax + SLF forum every few months. There was one a couple of weeks ago. In the past, I have tried the reasonable response to them but am considering changing that. I direct them to previous threads because the question and the answers are always the same.
I have travelled in all sections of a/c, both when others are paying and on my own account. On occasions I have been given upgrades without request. That is the way the business operates. If you don't like it, then take a boat and don't forget to ask for the QE2's Stateroom at the same rate, because no one else has booked it.
I certainly have no interest in supporting people trying to get something for free. Whilst empty seats may not seem to be the same as bottles of wine or a higher model of motor car but they are. Both seats and bottles and cars are items for sale. The fact that bottles can only be drunk once and seats may re-used is not relevant.
It is just about the only question that I would ban from Pprune! They should be directed to previous threads and told not to waste bandwidth.
I have travelled in all sections of a/c, both when others are paying and on my own account. On occasions I have been given upgrades without request. That is the way the business operates. If you don't like it, then take a boat and don't forget to ask for the QE2's Stateroom at the same rate, because no one else has booked it.
I certainly have no interest in supporting people trying to get something for free. Whilst empty seats may not seem to be the same as bottles of wine or a higher model of motor car but they are. Both seats and bottles and cars are items for sale. The fact that bottles can only be drunk once and seats may re-used is not relevant.
It is just about the only question that I would ban from Pprune! They should be directed to previous threads and told not to waste bandwidth.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: south east
1+1= err.....ummm...Let me see...
Oh dear, oh dear! I agree with calle belle and snoopy. With such a lack of common sense and basic economics emanating from this dire discussion about sums, what hope do we stand for the future of civilisation itself...???!!!
It's a classic case of them who have nothing always want nowt for owt...
happy flying
It's a classic case of them who have nothing always want nowt for owt...
happy flying
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
From: Up Norf
It happens
I think one of the problems is that it does happen and so when it does, you get a taste for it and want it again and again.
I've been extremely lucky lately with flights in Biz and a trip on the old bird about to retire, however on my own budget I can only afford the cheapest of tickets. However having been so fortunate its very difficult to resist at least dressing smartly and asking for something which may lead to a biz class seat coming my way.
One of my main aims when flying in Economy is to attempt to get an Exit row seat, as being over 6ft it helps prevent the DVT
I tend to find that the response I get very much depends upon the person checking me in.
An example of late...
MAN - JFK, no exit row seats available, however because it was a quiet flight I had a nice window seat with the seat next to me blocked off and a "Priority" tag on my luggage. Nice service. No upgrade, but it was obvious that the flight was empty so there is no way they could upgrade anyone, however the person did all they could to accomodate me.
JFK - MAN, The reply was, on two occaisions, "No there's nothing I can do for you, the flight is full." On the third attempt as the flight was closing, and speaking to a different member of staff, a quick scan down the seat plan was all it took to find one spare exit row seat. Nice service, in the end.
Now, from experiecne I've learnt that if no further information is provided other than "The flight is full" then it tends to be a bit of a fob off.
Whether or not asking for an exit row seat will get you anywhere towards a biz seat I'm not sure as it hasn't happened yet, but I'll keep on trying
HS
I've been extremely lucky lately with flights in Biz and a trip on the old bird about to retire, however on my own budget I can only afford the cheapest of tickets. However having been so fortunate its very difficult to resist at least dressing smartly and asking for something which may lead to a biz class seat coming my way.
One of my main aims when flying in Economy is to attempt to get an Exit row seat, as being over 6ft it helps prevent the DVT
I tend to find that the response I get very much depends upon the person checking me in.An example of late...
MAN - JFK, no exit row seats available, however because it was a quiet flight I had a nice window seat with the seat next to me blocked off and a "Priority" tag on my luggage. Nice service. No upgrade, but it was obvious that the flight was empty so there is no way they could upgrade anyone, however the person did all they could to accomodate me.
JFK - MAN, The reply was, on two occaisions, "No there's nothing I can do for you, the flight is full." On the third attempt as the flight was closing, and speaking to a different member of staff, a quick scan down the seat plan was all it took to find one spare exit row seat. Nice service, in the end.
Now, from experiecne I've learnt that if no further information is provided other than "The flight is full" then it tends to be a bit of a fob off.
Whether or not asking for an exit row seat will get you anywhere towards a biz seat I'm not sure as it hasn't happened yet, but I'll keep on trying
HS
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: uk
Everything you ever need to know about getting an upgrade is provided in Headset starter's post. Cause and effect.
He is polite and courteous without being overbearing, and resits the temptation to be rude, even when met with an unsatisfactory answer.
Luck is not all it takes, some people 'feel' they deserve an upgrade, and some people do deserve an upgrade. Loyalty, respect, and humour go a long way, whether you're the customer or the service provider.
He is polite and courteous without being overbearing, and resits the temptation to be rude, even when met with an unsatisfactory answer.
Luck is not all it takes, some people 'feel' they deserve an upgrade, and some people do deserve an upgrade. Loyalty, respect, and humour go a long way, whether you're the customer or the service provider.
(Blushes with embarrassment)Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 208
From: Toronto
All you need is a crystal ball:[list=1][*]Book on a flight where economy is oversold and business has spare seats. Hint: Seat assignment is denied.[*]Show up early[/list=1]
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Cork, Ireland
none of my business as I'm neither cabin crew or have experienced the joys of the comfy seats, but I don't think that Davethelimey ever implied that he was 'entitled' to an upgrade because of empty seats. He was merely asking what's the best of asking without causing offence (hence I guess the 'cheeky chappy' reference). It's human nature to try and get more for less - eg car hire upgrade - but I feel it's the manner in which the request is put which causes the problem. If someone is polite and accepts the response (most of us expect to be turned down anyway) then I don't see a problem. Anyone that 'expects' an upgrade deserves nothing.
I read a story on here recently which might be relevant, and is almost certainly incorrectly passed on now, but...story goes of a flight from Africa to Europe. Posh European lady in economy repeatedly harasses cabin crew for an upgrade as she was forced to sit next to a nasty black man. After a while the steward comes down and says "I'm terribly sorry, the captain would be delighted if you would take a seat in first class". As the lady starts to rise it is pointed out to her that the first-class seat is for the 'nasty black man' - cheers and applause from surrounding passengers.
I read a story on here recently which might be relevant, and is almost certainly incorrectly passed on now, but...story goes of a flight from Africa to Europe. Posh European lady in economy repeatedly harasses cabin crew for an upgrade as she was forced to sit next to a nasty black man. After a while the steward comes down and says "I'm terribly sorry, the captain would be delighted if you would take a seat in first class". As the lady starts to rise it is pointed out to her that the first-class seat is for the 'nasty black man' - cheers and applause from surrounding passengers.
