No F/A Is it legal?

[tilly666]

Recently positioned on a J41 aircraft of a regional carrier and there was no Cabin Crew onboard! The FO came out of the flight deck and conducted the service. I just wondered if this was legal, considering aircraft can carry 29 pax and with also the issue of flight deck door opening during flight to allow FO to carry out service! It certainly did not bode well with passengers travelling on the flight.

[trium16]

I fly regularly on a Twin Otter (I think 18 or 20 passenger capacity) and the FO always does the safety briefing, never occured to me for 20 passengers you'd need a F/A!!

Oh and I don't think the flight deck has a door (I always fly the same plane), when I sit at the front I can hear all the R/T calls and even view the ADI !

[jettesen]

Minimum crew standards are 1 crew member per 50 passengers. Therefore i guess, this falls into effect as the aircraft is flying with under 50 passengers. Depending on airline and service standards, there is no nead for cabin crew if there is no service to carryout in the cabin. As long as the safety demo is read out, then you are covered. Hope this helps.

[gulf-crew]

My understanding of it is that if the flight carrys more than 19 passengers a flight attendant must be onboard for safety. Not sure if its seats or actual pax nos

I am sure someone will be able to clarify

GC

[xyz_pilot]

It depends on where in the world.

Local rules etc

[Brandy]

RE Seats

Just to clarify, it is for every 50 seats onboard an aircraft that a minimum of 1 cabin attendant is required.

[expedite_climb]

Brandy you are correct, but one crew is needed when there are more than 19 pax.

[runner3]

You can operate with less than required crew but have to reduce PAX load and can only be on return to base i.e. 149 seat a/c standard 3 c crew 1 f/a short so 2 c crew PAX load has to be reduced to around 90 (cant remember exact figure)

[jettesen]

It goes on number of seats for crew allocation. If you have a 149 seater a/c, minimum crew is 3. no less. doesn't matter if you only have 10 pax still required to have minimum crew. Eg. The new airbus which easyJet are bringing in are 156 seaters, therefore they have to have 4 crew. CAA requirements. Will not allow to go mimimum crew with reduced pax load.

[Departures Beckham]

I found this in the UK's Air Navigation Order - Article 20:

(7) (a) This paragraph applies to any flight for the purpose of public transport by an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom:

(i) on which is carried 20 or more passengers; or
(ii) which may in accordance with its certifiate of airworthiness carry more than 35 passengers and on which at least one passenger is carried.

(b) The crew of an aircraft on a flight to which this paragraph applies shall include cabin crew carried for the purposes of performing in the interests of the safety of passengers, duties to be assigned by the operator or the commanfer of the aircraft, but who shall not act as members of the flight crew.

(c) (i) subject to sub-paragraph (ii), on a flight to which this paragraph applies, there shall be carried not less than one member of cabin crew for every 50 or fraction of 50 passenger seats installed on the aircraft.

I read this as meaning:

More than 35 seats = Must have cabin crew.
Twenty or more passengers = Must have cabin crew.

So an aircraft with 34 SEATS and 19 PAX does not need cabin crew.

But as soon as it hits either 35 seats or 20 pax, you need one CC per 50 (or fraction of) seats.

But of course, it only applies to UK registered aircraft - and a reduction in cabin crew is allowed if a reduction in pax numbers and their distribution throughout the aircraft is agreed with the CAA.

[runner3]

jettesen

As i said a reduction in crew is allowed but only on return to base not on an outbound sector.

[Onan the Clumsy]

The (US) ATP prep book I'm currently wading through quotes 14 CFR 121.391 and says...

One or more flight attendants are required on each passenger carrying airplane that has more than nine passenger seats. The number of flight attendants is determined by the number of installed passenger seats - not by the actual number of passengers on board.

One flight attendant is required on airplanes that can seat from 10 to 50 passengers. Two flight attendants are required on airplanes having a seating capacity from 51 through 100 seats. After that, an additional flight attendant is required for each unit (or partial unit) of 50 seats above 100.



The odd thing is I also though the lower limit was 19. This however refers to "A public address system and a separate crewmember interphone system must be installed on all airplanes with a seating capacity of more than 19 seats"

[Rwy in Sight]

I have flown on Do-228 in Europe with 19 pax a number of times and there were no F/A. A pre-recorded announcement was made for the safety demo.

Also I have flown on Beechcraft 1900D in the States and there was no F/A either that was back in 1994.

Maybe the limit for pax for the existence of a F/A is 19 in Europe and the USA.

Has anyone flown on an ATR or a small regional turboprop where only 19 or less pax were carried? If yes were there a F/A
Rwy in Sight