Absolutely. I was just trying to say that Vista's rostet is objectively worse than NJEs. It's more work and for less pay, too.

To like vista's roster better than NJE's is really quite irrational.

You couldn't be more wrong about being on tour with me. We almost always have a great time and respect each others opinions, of course.

I imagine during 17 days on you will frequently be required to take an airline mid-tour. For example when an aircraft goes into maintenance or when you need your two local nights off to reset the duty clock but the aircraft needs to keep flying. So I don't think you will necessarily only have two airlines per 17 day tour. Granted, the same is true for NJE, sometimes.

However, in NJE your airline is in business class if it's longer than six hours. In Vista it's always eco, right? Now that would be a real pain for me.

In Vista you do all your training on your OFF days. In NJE it's on duty days.

And what about vacation? In NJE vacation is subtracted form your paid duty days.

Overall, I'm sure you work many days less at NJE per year and you get paid more, too. And you are gone for less time in one stretch.

It's ok to be happy enough with the vista roster but I really have a very hard time understanding how anyone could consider vista's roster better. Objectives it clearly isn't better. And even subjectively I struggle with that assessment. Now, if we were talking a true 14/14 or 15/15 with long haul travel in biz the I could see how some might like that better than 6/5 or 7/6. It still wouldn't be my preference, though.

Probably long. No-one knows.

But that doesn't make the Vista roster better than the NJE one :)

733Driver,

totally get your points, especially pointing out the 4 months per year we had to do OPC/LPC, CRM and Strategy Days during our OFF.
My main reason to leave was the eco proceedings and those 4 months.........

There are plenty of valid reasons, i decided to leave after almost 12 years, and i am really happy where i am right now.

Anyway, is still believe that 6/5 for me personally doesn't fit as good as my current 14/14 is doing. I just like the fact to come home and almost feel like having a vacation every month. but as we could both see on the replies, everybody is different and has its unique ways of dealing in this challenging industry.

Happy landings.

Thanks FLYDUS,

Glad to hear you are happy where you are now. I can totally see that a good 14/14 gig can be quite appealing to some.

Take care :-)

Austria is the key word here. Same thing at the other one.. People get drunk, the Owner complains that he does not make money, that he has to recruit more pilots, because they are leaving in too large numbers..etc...
The thing is , the market has evolved a bit, and people whom were on a standby list somewhere are leaving, and the new one's ( despite FO, that would take any jobs anyway) have the choice..
They will have to tune and tweak a little the T&Cs, but they are running a cash machine..no worries..

Nice try, nibsi!

PS: have you ever thought of the possibility that "quarter past midnight" may be "quarter past 2pm" somewhere else in the world?

If the "nibs-person" is either ops or management, then it does not know this unimportant fact. Thats why they think we are continuously on holiday trips.

Boabity is spot on with his description of the strategy day. Afraid of the reality? 36 / 350 is 10.2% staff turn over. Sounds pretty high in my ears?

It is high...says a lot about VJ!!

Worked for them(VJS) a while ago.

As soon as I got an airline job again I ran as fast as I could - still they messed with me - my holidays misteriously(was on the VERY old Austrian contract with 5 weeks of holidays/year) disappeared, only a few days remained.All records vanished. My company mailbox got locked more or less immediately after I resigned, even I still was in my notice period. AND finally, my 5 year bonus did not make it anymore into my account(even if well earned). So, be careful, as many in this business you have to look after your pay. Or be prepared to go to court in Malta(yeah, that would work ;-) ).

Apart from above mentioned things I fully agree :

Cons:

- 17/13 which actually was, when I was there, a 19/11. Not sure if they really changed that. The 11 off contain 3-4 days/month of holidays, so at the end only 6-7 days off/month in fact. In my earlier days there I had some 25/5 rotations and I recall a 19 on, 2 off, 7 on "gig" as well. They did not ask me, they just planned it.
- pay is bad, true. Even as an Austrian I found it bad considering how much you have to "do" for them while you are on(of course everything around the aircraft, data monitoring download, processing, FMS database upload(of course preparation of the package before in the hotel), helping the girl clean the aircraft(was even "enforced" by company memo, anyway, most guys helped anyway as the finally wanted to reach the hotel a tad earlier and keep the girl in a good mood ^^).....). Plus of course you went with the girl shopping to carry that bloody bottled water as we where not allowed to order that from catering. So - at least 2 times(normally more often) some good shopping trips, carrying the stuff to the hotel, sometimes, if no storage, carry it to the room and then all together with your own stuff for 17+ days back down when it was time to fly again. So many memories thinking we are a moving company not a bizz jet crew.....
- hotels have been not the best.Especially in Europe. In Asia and ME they have been ok. Russia sometimes - brrrr. Do NOT miss them.
- all training in off days - so again your 11-13 will be shortened at least 3-4 times/year. AND YES - they will make a big fuzz if you do NOT agree with them.
- on top of the training you had(do not know if that is still required) to attend a "party"(I think they called that BS "strategy day") every year. Usually a summer or winter edition took place, so both sides of the roster would have to attend one. Normally 1-2 days, with some brainwashing and party. Most of the time I managed to avoid it. English folks tend to like that kind of stuff, so it is not a "minus" for all of us
- sometimes VERY difficult passengers, especially Russians or from former russian republics. If they got to offensive(had to call in once) the company usually stands behind you and will swap the crew/aircraft if another flight is booked with same customer. Here the airliner cockpit doors are really missing. Found that really a safety issue, after all you really do not know which strange people with which "profession" you had on board.
-some managed to have a kind of part time roster. But the company do not really like to give that away. Normally on part time you could not go onto the Global, and during my time there they started to exclude part timers from the seniority list(which got rectified pretty fast after I went to Austrian Authorities(Arbeiterkammer) to claim a violation of equal threatment laws. We had seniority back after 4 weeks. But they try - wherever they can. And sometimes they succeed. All in all very exhausting for the employee as you feel like Don Quijote - always fighting windmills.


Pros(for me):
- VERY nice collegues in general - with most it was easy to "survive" this 17-19 days on(some of the chicks in the back had some problems and could annoy you in the long run). Generally the cockpit "atmosphere" was great.
- flying is very different compared to airline aviation. No problem in flying the aircraft as well manually, a thing that many airlines call you in the office for "tea and biscuits". Most likely the ONE big thing I miss(airline flying is a bit boring, however I love the stability of the rosters compared to that 17/13). Flying was fun.

If it has to be GA, try to find something better. My 10 cents. The shiny office and aircraft tend to convince many potential candidates that the rest of the outfit is shiny as well.... ermm.....nope, it isn't.

Do they still have a mass exodus of pilots?
From the sounds of it their reputation is not too great and they need a lot of work to start looking like a good employer or potential employer.