Flexjet orders 20 supersonic business jets from from Aerion
Beginnings of a new supersonic era?
REUTERS -- Nov 17 Flexjet said it ordered 20 of Aerion Corp's AS2 supersonic business jets, which will make the private jet travel firm the first to offer publically available supersonic transport since the Concorde was grounded in 2003. AS2, a three-engine jet that can carry eight to 12 passengers, is being developed by Aerion in collaboration with Airbus Group. It is expected to make its maiden flight in 2021 and enter service in 2023. Read more at Reuters |
if the Aerion AS2 flies at Mach 1.2 at or above FL350, its sonic boom will not reach the ground I also fail to see the interest to fly at M1.2 compared to a Citation X at M.9 at 1/5 th of the price. |
Sonic booms and mach 1.2
A simple explanation of why the sonic boom does not reach the ground when at Mach 1.2 above FL350 is found here:
Quiet Supersonic - NASA Chases Fleeting Booms | Things With Wings Cubemaster |
Thanks cubemaster. very interesting , we'll see if those "evanescent waves" are acceptable or not to people on the ground , but the schema in the article raise another question : would the reflected wave be perceided by following aircraft flying behind/below ?
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
(Post 9184185)
I also fail to see the interest to fly at M1.2 compared to a Citation X at M.9 at 1/5 th of the price.
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Originally Posted by cubemaster
(Post 9184200)
A simple explanation of why the sonic boom does not reach the ground when at Mach 1.2 above FL350 is found here:
Quiet Supersonic - NASA Chases Fleeting Booms | Things With Wings |
"It's supposed to cruise at M1.4-M1.5 over water. Still not quite Concorde, though."
it would still spare an hour or two on transoceanic flights, in business world that might be worthwhile |
Smells like a PR stunt to me. Mach 1.2-1.5 has huge transonic drag and the massive additional fuel consumption will eat away you range, which is not worth the marginal overall speed increase. At least not for a significant number of aircraft to make the development costs break even.
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I wondered when this old chestnut would come around again. Massive airships and personal jet packs will be back again sometime as well....:ugh:
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Mach 1.2-1.5 has huge transonic drag and the massive additional fuel consumption will eat away you range, which is not worth the marginal overall speed increase. A laminar flow wing significantly reduces drag, up to 90% reduction compared to current supersonic wings. The reduction in total drag (including other parts of the aircraft) is more modest -- predicted to be around 20% -- but that's enough to make supersonic flight economical. Aerion's airfoil was able to simultaneously maintain laminar flow while shaping the sonic boom to enable quiet flight. |
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
(Post 9184185)
I also fail to see the interest to fly at M1.2 compared to a Citation X at M.9 at 1/5 th of the price.
You can be sure that the beancounters will have worked out the comparative costs of travel by different means, including down time while traveling. |
What might be in the rear half (approximately) of the fuselage? - just something to hang the wings and engines on?
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With AS2 an executive might have morning meetings in New York, then head to London to sign a deal, then make it back to New York in time for dinner & daughter's piano recital that evening.
When you're a billionaire, why not? |
I know about a couple of people which are looking into a A340 Private Jet. O.K the aircraft is rather cheap, but the cost for conversion and the tco :} or think about what people are willing to paar for the Gulfstream G650
From my point of view the market is there. |
Also, whilst there are a couple of jets that cruise at 0.9+, how many actually do it more than once after they see the fuel consumption?
The current "fast" jets are mostly top trump machines themselves. |
There are a fair number of "cost is no object" people out there - Boeing has delivered over 200 Boeing Business Jets (including seven 777, nine 787, and eight 747-8) and the cost of the custom interiors is typically similar to the cost of the airframe.
It's long been speculated that the next supersonic passenger aircraft would be a business jet - this would seem to confirm that. All that being said, I'll believe it when I see it. There are some major regulatory challenges (today's regulations are far removed from what Concorde was certified to), and the greenies will certainly have a hissy fit over the environmental impact and carbon footprint of a supersonic toy. |
Every time I see a picture of the Aerion AS2 I think "Douglas X-3 Stilletto". The Stilleto configuration (long skinny fuselage with high polar moments and really short wings) had severe inertial coupling problems at high speeds. Joe Walker barely survived an inertial coupling episode in the X-3. How is Aerion overcoming this problem which is inherent to that configuration?
As the Air and Space Smithonian website says: Every research aircraft poses a question. Sometimes the answer is "forget it." The X-3 Stiletto | Air & Space Magazine http://www.themanufacturer.com/wp-co...AS2-design.jpg http://www.diseno-art.com/news_conte...Stiletto-6.jpg |
Then there was the Lockheed Starfighter.
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We've had unstable aircraft with computer-controlled control surfaces for over 40 years, the inherent inertia coupling tendencies will be controlled by that same philosophy.
The X-3 was designed in the late 40s/early 50s and hence couldn't benefit from small lightweight digital computers because they were not developed until 15 or more years later. Just read the remainder of the X-3 Wikipedia article. Quite sobering. 260kt take-off speed and +/-7g roll-coupled pitch oscillations on the flight where Joe Walker nearly lost control. |
The Aerion is real enough - a friend of mine, one of my instructors, is a senior engineer on the project. Lots of interesting stories... (not to be repeated here I'm afraid).
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How is Aerion overcoming this problem which is inherent to that configuration? I believe part of the solution is to increase pitch and yaw stability by having a larger tail. Stability augmentation (similar to a yaw damper) can also be used. |
Originally Posted by n5296s
(Post 9184778)
The Aerion is real enough - a friend of mine, one of my instructors, is a senior engineer on the project. Lots of interesting stories... (not to be repeated here I'm afraid).
There have been a lot of new aircraft projects that failed to make it past the prototype phase (many didn't even make it that far - including the Boeing SST). The cost and regulatory challenges to a supersonic commercial aircraft are massive. As I've noted the changes to the FAR and JAR/CS since the 1970s will make it incredibly difficult to certify a supersonic capable bis jet. |
The company claims 50 letters-of-intent from customers, each with a $250,000 deposit.
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We've had unstable aircraft with computer-controlled control surfaces for over 40 years, the inherent inertia coupling tendencies will be controlled by that same philosophy. |
Then there was the Lockheed Starfighter. |
It is generally recognised that coupling can be ameliorated by,
1. increased directional stability 2. reducing dihedral effect 3. minimising the inclination of the inertia axis at normal flight conditions 4. reducing undesirable aerodynamic coupling 5. limiting roll rate, roll duration, and angle of attack or load factor for performing roll manoeuvres The typical high speed aircraft has some sort of roll performance limitation by flight restrictions or automatic control device to prevent reaching some critical condition from which recovery is impossible. I can't think of any manoeuvre on an aircraft such as this where coupling could be an issue, and assume modern flight control computer systems would look after point (5). They won't be doing twinkle rolls. With Airbus part of the team, whatever is the product produced I'm sure you could take it to the bank. |
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Well if cost is no object and these people are so incredible important they won't have any problem with a 100% VAT paid at the location of manufacture (not some rinky dinky modern day pirate haven place of registration) will they?
No one is that important, although some people might think they are; if Putin and Obama can make do with subsonics and telecoms links so can they. On a less bitter note, it looks like it might be a bit of a hot ship to handle at low speed, would it be able to get into Citation sized airfields. |
The future will tell what will become of this project.
Seem interesting though and I wish all the luck for those involved. But I couldn't help myself posting this little picture. I Think that some of you will get it and maybe laugh a little! https://33.media.tumblr.com/391a79e2...MtC1r8g16e.jpg :8 Edit: Type-o |
On a less bitter note, it looks like it might be a bit of a hot ship to handle at low speed, would it be able to get into Citation sized airfields. What sort of altitude are they planning to fly this thing? Concorde was pretty much on its own up at FL600 where it didn't have to worry about other traffic, I'm guessing this will be flying lower |
Yes the faster you go, the higher you need to fly.
Since the AS2 won't fly as fast as the Concorde, its optimal altitude should be closer to FL450, with service ceiling around FL510. |
Well if cost is no object and these people are so incredible important they won't have any problem with a 100% VAT paid at the location of manufacture |
Originally Posted by peekay4
(Post 9185816)
Yes the faster you go, the higher you need to fly.
. i) The speed of sound is a function of air temperature ONLY. ii) Temperature remains constant from the beginning of the stratosphere up to 65000 feet, after which the temperature increases again. |
Being higher, at fixed IMN, will reduce sigma, which will increase the difference between TAS and EAS. In the fixed temperature region of the stratosphere then, the higher you are, whilst TAS will stay fixed, EAS will go down, reducing aerodynamic loads on the aircraft, and potentially drag and thus fuel burn required.
So the higher the better, so long as it stays within the lower stratosphere, and there may be some value in creeping into the middle stratosphere a bit. I think, it's late, might come back and check my maths in the morning. G |
Well if cost is no object and these people are so incredible important they won't have any problem with a 100% VAT paid at the location of manufacture It's a big world. |
What you say does not hold for supersonic flight. |
Aerion make no mention that I can see of planned altitude capability, though they mention approach speeds will be less than 135 Knots.
An interesting paper on inertia coupling, X-2, X-15 and Space Shuttle http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/p...ain_H-2106.pdf |
This is not the same as aerodynamic instability. This is an inertial instability. It is caused by forces of a rotating mass overpowering the forces of an aerodynamic surface. No amount of computer sophistication can overcome this instability. The aerodynamic control surfaces must be enlarged. Further, look at any relaxed stability aircraft and you will see large control surfaces. Software alone cannot generate the large forces required to maintain control. The software needs powerful control surfaces to work with. Those do not appear to be present on the Aerion AS2. |
Originally Posted by poorjohn
(Post 9186840)
I suppose great minds have considered thrusters of some kind to augment aerodynamic controls, and that doesn't work?
If I remember correctly, one of the first warnings the Columbia crew had of impending doom was the low fuel level in the thrusters that were compensating for a molten wing. |
For those questioning the economics, not what you would call overwhelming though.
Supersonic Bizjet Math Makes Sense Now, Says Analyst | Business Aviation News: Aviation International News No amount of computer sophistication can overcome this instability coupling can be ameliorated by limiting roll rate, roll duration, and angle of attack or load factor for performing roll manoeuvres The typical high speed aircraft has some sort of roll performance limitation by flight restrictions or automatic control device to prevent reaching some critical condition from which recovery is impossible. |
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