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Originally Posted by His dudeness
(Post 10083783)
To me it looks as if they just banked the little bugger hard in order to correct onto the LOC and either did not pull, thus the descent rate developed or the aircraft was full of clear ice and had an "high speed stall" when they banked it.
The weather was deteriorating too. When an aircraft 10min before reported the ceiling at approx. 3500 it does not mean that it was the same for this aircraft. The shortly afterwards arriving SAR took place in heavy snowfall. I only mention this as far as outside reference is concerned. |
Originally Posted by His dudeness
(Post 10083783)
The BFU asked for the tapes of the last 6 approaches and 6 out of 6 times the aircraft overshot the centre line. All intercepts were made at 220-240kts GND.
To me it looks as if they just banked the little bugger hard in order to correct onto the LOC and either did not pull, thus the descent rate developed or the aircraft was full of clear ice and had an "high speed stall" when they banked it. Just a little frictions, a field of clouds, which had in it centre severe icing, is approaching. Due to idle pwr boots might not operate at max capaility, but still in operational limits. Just a normal approach, in limits, the overshoot is not avoidable, if ILS is armed to the FD at KIAS above 180. Only area nav like GPS will align perfectly to the LOC. But then the nav-source has to switched to ILS, manually or some system doing it automatically. But, and now comes my different conclusion.. But, if Apor NAV was selected, Heading has to change BEFORE the aircraft reach LOC (Anfluggrundlinie). According to the picture on page 26, my ipression is that heading was changing just after passing the LOC. That is typically if the approach was not armed. The aircraft levelled monumentally of at 17:14:17:97 -96 ft/min, than reached a bank of nearly 60 degree, speed increased and descent rate reached more than 2000 ft/min. For me it looks like after overshoot the crew tried to solve the situation. Still 3 cases possible: tail stall due to icing of elevator, high speed stall, due to G-load increased stall speed + ice. And 3. loss of control, turns in clouds under non-continuous conditions are prone for illusion, while height was to low to recover. |
The C510 ( and the G1000) is always overshooting the axis. This is known to every single rated C510 pilot.
Thing is , do you treat an approach in icing and solid IMC like a decelerating approach in good weather conditions? Not .. period. Vmo is 250 Kias on the mustang that means that they stormed at Vmo-10 to the loc, at that speed on a 3 ° glide in icing ( engine anti-ice ON) you will have to be idle all the way down, except if you extend the Speed brakes, if you expect to arrive at Vapp at the Threshold. At that speed and complacency in icing, the outcome is the same, they took a chance and failed. Like night VFR into mountains.. You may be lucky until the day... I will not trust any report from an Austrian VLJ operator, never. I will trust the LBA findings though. And from all the scenarii described above, Flaps approach are at 185 Kias, Full 150, Gear no limits..And since they were found up, it is highly possible that they overbanked the plane to intercept, the airframe was completely iced up, and they stalled. One thing to remember , NO aircraft on this planet can handle SEVERE ICING.. NONE... The only thing to do is to recognize severe Icing... |
Spot on CL300
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