HondaJet pilot report?
Has anyone see a pilot report for the HondaJet? I've seen reports for the Citation M2 and Phenom 100, but not for the HondaJet.
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There is a neat video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM9cXN5Bsng |
I've noticed the absence of those too. Generally the major monthly publications, send their guy out to fly the thing, where we can get some semblance of real world numbers. There's nothing of the sort with the Honda so far. It makes one wonder if either the aviation media and/or Honda have something to hide.
Other than looking different with the above wing engines, I doubt that there's anything different performance wise than what other airplanes in this category offer. But it's Honda, so a lot of non-aviation types think it's the greatest thing to come along since the Wright Bros. |
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Originally Posted by eelb
(Post 9280451)
I've noticed the absence of those too. Generally the major monthly publications, send their guy out to fly the thing, where we can get some semblance of real world numbers. There's nothing of the sort with the Honda so far. It makes one wonder if either the aviation media and/or Honda have something to hide.
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No new field performance figures post certification are promulgated yet, still only the old pre-certification sales brochure very broad-brush estimates. What we want is the real landing (in particular) and take-off figures for this speedy, slippery jet with tiny little brakes and not a lot of lift dump capability, albeit there's the clam-shell type brakes as an option but not as standard fit.
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Originally Posted by sellbydate
(Post 9282991)
No new field performance figures post certification are promulgated yet, still only the old pre-certification sales brochure very broad-brush estimates. What we want is the real landing (in particular) and take-off figures for this speedy, slippery jet with tiny little brakes and not a lot of lift dump capability, albeit there's the clam-shell type brakes as an option but not as standard fit.
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Now customer deliveries have begun, including into Europe with people like RAS in Germany and presumably other dealers like TAG(?), surely some of those real figures are out in the public domain for field performance, albeit FAA only? No mention of a date for EASA certification still, perhaps that will be an announcement at EBACE later in the month?
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The HondaJet interior fit, finish, and material quality is well behind a competitive Citation 525 series product or a EMB-500, with poor panel and cabinetry fitment. The cockpit is very tight, with panels and switch gear that are car-like but cheap and likely to be prone to breakage and failure. The view out the front is distorted by the heat elements. Refueling is accomplished via an aft RH fuselage fill port where the filler cap is left to dangle and damage the paint.
Performance will have to be outstanding to make up for an otherwise unimpressive design execution. |
In the ten years it's taken Honda to get this pocket rocket to market, Embraer have delivered a thousand business jets....you'd think they'd have time to iron out a few little quirks
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The nose is oddly shaped to provide lift. The engines over the wing provides more cabin space relative to the length/weight of the aircraft.
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It's the cover story in Plane & Pilot this month. P&P's new editor (and the pilot/writer of the article) is Robert Goyer, so you wonder if he struck some kind of deal that he'd get the first exclusive for his new mag instead of the guys that fired him at Flying.
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Good article. He was very positive to it.
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Flew in one last week. PAX wise, does what it says on the tin. Quiet in the cabin, ride was good, didn't feel too full with 6 on board. I didn't think the build quality was too bad - not much by way of squeaks or rattles in the cruise.
I'd want to fly in an M2 on the same day before making a decision as to which one I'd buy (completely ignoring the numbers & potential operational difficulties inherent with a new type from a new manufacturer). |
There's a Pilot report in my latest copy of Flying as well (don't know if its the same one RG wrote for Plane and Pilot)
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Thank you! Here it is online: We Fly It First: HondaJet Arrives! - Plane & Pilot Magazine
This sentence in the article is a puzzler to me: Honda Aircraft has worked exceptionally hard to keep the airplane from being flown and those impressions publicized, much to the frustration of aviation journalists like me, not to mention consumers, who are wondering what all the buzz is about. |
Originally Posted by OFBSLF
(Post 9389485)
Thank you! Here it is online: We Fly It First: HondaJet Arrives! - Plane & Pilot Magazine
This sentence in the article is a puzzler to me: Why would Honda want to keep this under wraps? Why not grab the free publicity? I don't get it. |
BCA has one in their june edition
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Anyone like Pete Collins going to fly it and give it a more technical and less journalistic appraisal?
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AviationWeek just printed their pilot report:
HondaJet | Analysis and Pilot Report | Business Aviation content from Aviation Week The HondaJet interior fit, finish, and material quality is well behind a competitive Citation 525 series product or a EMB-500, with poor panel and cabinetry fitment. But the Profile only tells part of the story. The HondaJet raises the bar in entry-level light jets for passenger comfort, cabin quiet and baggage capacity. Optional luxury features, such as an externally serviced toilet and lavatory with running water, are not available in other light jets. The aircraft also has the best ride quality in turbulence of any entry-level light jet in production, in our opinion. Fit and finish of this aircraft are unsurpassed in its class. Exterior surface tolerances are tight, all doors fit precisely and the paintwork is superb. The interior furnishings also are first rate, befitting of an aircraft that sells for more than $5.1 million with options. |
Reading that B&CA profile, they key pointers that stand out when pitched against the peers of the M2 and the Phenom 100 are that:
Cabin is O.K. size-wise, it's fast and its fuel efficient. Downsides are field performance - both take off distances and landing distance, payload with full fuel is poor, range with max payload is poor, watch the real Basic Operating Weight once you add the usual options - at least 300 lbs more than the 'brochure' figures. They're still waiting for known icing conditions approval and RVSM approval so not quite ticked all the boxes yet on the certification front. So, I guess one could say it's similar in some respects to the older, smaller Lears, but without the range capability. |
Originally Posted by OFBSLF
(Post 9395375)
AviationWeek just printed their pilot report:
HondaJet | Analysis and Pilot Report | Business Aviation content from Aviation Week Quote: The HondaJet interior fit, finish, and material quality is well behind a competitive Citation 525 series product or a EMB-500, with poor panel and cabinetry fitment. Fred George of AviationWeek seemed to think differently: Quote: But the Profile only tells part of the story. The HondaJet raises the bar in entry-level light jets for passenger comfort, cabin quiet and baggage capacity. Optional luxury features, such as an externally serviced toilet and lavatory with running water, are not available in other light jets. The aircraft also has the best ride quality in turbulence of any entry-level light jet in production, in our opinion. Fit and finish of this aircraft are unsurpassed in its class. Exterior surface tolerances are tight, all doors fit precisely and the paintwork is superb. The interior furnishings also are first rate, befitting of an aircraft that sells for more than $5.1 million with options. |
Downsides are field performance... |
Honda has a good backlog of orders, so there seems to be a market for it.
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As much as I like the innovative (VFW 614 apart) concept of the aircraft, the takeoff distance of almost 4000ft quoted in that Aviation Week article for a light jet is a clear showstopper around here. What does anybody need a "lavatory sink with running water" for if he can't fly the aircraft in and out from the closest airfield? And 5+M$? Really? |
Honda has a good backlog of orders, so there seems to be a market for it. But not in my part of the world (which is why I wrote "around here"). We have lots of small regional airfields with runways between 3000 and 4000ft. Around here, a small jet must be capable to operate from those if you want to sell more than just a few. Dassault aircraft for example are specifically built with these runways in mind. A TBM is almost as much. Without a loo. What would you rather have? |
All very quiet on the Hondajet front?
Strikes me that there is next to no buzz in the market about the Hondajet now it's in service. Presumably they've sorted by now RVSM, flights into known icing etc. etc. - a few handicaps still around after initial deliveries.
New sales must be ever so slow in the current market for this kind of baby jet at that price point? At this rate, the £1 Billion-plus development costs look like a 50+ year ROI! Have they improved landing performance at all post-certification? How many outside of the USA now with end-users, not the dealers? Super little jet, just a decade or more late, perhaps. When is the Hondajet II to be revealed? Might be a much better value beast, rather like the Phenom 300 when compared to the Phenom 100, lesson's learn't and all that. |
Originally Posted by Winniebago
(Post 9729080)
How many outside of the USA now with end-users, not the dealers?
FC |
HondaJet Owner Tells his story
This video features a Honda Jet owner telling his story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQhLY8zdNCk |
Honda Jet
Spoke to one of their sales staff at The GA show on Lake Constance last week, was full of the sales pitch stuff of exceeding all the performance predictions!
My owner got sick of the 6 year wait and got his deposit back last year. It was nice to see it in the flesh rather than all the mock ups over the years. Hope it is better than the F1 project! :D |
Did anyone see Top gear a few weeks back, it had Matt Ml Blanc do part of his race in a hondajet, he seems to like it as a passenger.
Fats |
Originally Posted by Winniebago
(Post 9729080)
New sales must be ever so slow in the current market for this kind of baby jet at that price point? At this rate, the £1 Billion-plus development costs look like a 50+ year ROI! |
Originally Posted by Amadis of Gaul
(Post 9740041)
I don't think Honda did this for the ROI, they did it to prove they could. I won't comment on the wisdom of such a thought process.
I hope they do come up with follow-on models with lots of hindsight and lessons learn't and expedite the development and certification process such that by the time it hits the market, it's not effectively ten years too late for that particular niche. They need a pretty good crystal ball to know what the market will want by the time Hondajet II finally emerges. |
Originally Posted by Amadis of Gaul
(Post 9740041)
I don't think Honda did this for the ROI, they did it to prove they could. I won't comment on the wisdom of such a thought process.
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Originally Posted by fairflyer
(Post 9747077)
You make it sound like the pursuit of developing the Bugatti Veyron for Volkswagen, ridiculously expensive vanity project, but ultimately a showcase of their technical capabilities. Arguably though, that genuinely ups the status of VW group overall, increasing car sales, whilst I doubt a similar effect could be seen to have crossed over into stronger brand and therefore sales for other Honda products. Yes, they're a very clever lot, those Honda guys, but will they have sold any more Civics or lawn mowers because they can make a clever little jet too - and the jet engine that goes in it? Would like to see a University study on that and brand value from doing crazy, clever, hideously expensive stuff! I wonder if someone really thought once, say fifteen years ago, they could sell a thousand Hondajets in several years? Or, it was just a technical showcase primarily and if they sold a few hundred over a few years, that would be a bonus?
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I'm supposed to be off to N.Carolina for a type rating on the HondaJet in June. Provided it happens I'll let you know what it's like.
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As regards magazine etc articles, there are a good few now. I heard the latest issue of Car magazine had a piece and that there was a good one in Flying too...
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...mph-hondajet#1 https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...mph-hondajet#1 Driver tests out firm's new £4m 'Civic of the Skies' plane | Daily Mail Online Seems to be mostly positive feedback |
Sorry - posting fail, meant to post link to the Robb Report piece but doubled on the Top Gear...
The 500mph Honda | Robb Report |
There's a review in this month's Pilot magazine in the UK.
The big thing that struck me was that it has a limiting crosswind of just 20 knots, said in the article to be down to the increase in keel area from the engine configuration. 20 knots is going to hamper sales, surely? |
Is it a hard limit of 20kts or is it similar to the Lear where they only quote a demonstrated crosswind of 25kts in the manuals and under Private Ops you are free to test your cohones above that should you wish?
I would imagine it would have a larger rudder than similar types with tail mounted engines since the asymmetric forces in engine failure are greater given the mounting position. Does the article mention the asymmetric handling qualities at all.? |
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