HS 125 Crash Dakar (GOOY)
 

Senegalair HS 125 Medevac from Ouagadougou to Dakar Crashed. The press is reporting the last radar contact was 60NM West of Dakar, a little strange if you're coming from Ouaga ? Maybe they overshot Dakar and crashed while turning around ? They are also reporting fuel exhaustion as the cause. all 7 aboard presumed dead

Link in french

Crash d'un avion de Sénégalair au large de Dakar

Pressurization?
 

When was the last time anybody talked to the flight?

According to Radio France Internationale (RFI), a near-miss between an A/C from Equatorial Guinea en route to Cotonou (but flew back to Malabo after the near-miss) and the Senegalair A/C chartered by SOS Médecins would have led the latest to loose cabine pressure, incapacitating everyone on board (since no radio-contact could be established after the near-miss). Which would explain why the plane crashed 111 Km westward from Dakar after fuel exhaustion. No source named by RFI.

Link : Sept morts dans le crash d'un avion sanitaire au large du Sénégal - Afrique - RFI

HS 125 Crash Dakar (GOOY)
 

Unclear what happened here but really strange that it overshot Dakar by such a distance

As suggested in the 2nd post, maybe a near miss because no one was "awake" in the HS125 ?

West of Dakar is in the ocean!

@captplaystation

Correct, the RFI piece of news can actually be interpreted the other way around : first incapacitation, then near-miss. Not much to bet on CVR/FDR being found and fished out the depth, so it's up to the crew from the Equatorial Guinea A/C to provide more hints on what could have happened, I guess.

No TCAS ??

The article refers to the first elements of the inquiry, without any exact quotation.
Then it is said that the lost of cabine pressure was a consequence of the near miss (there was a hit, reported by the other plane !).
I'm not saying they are right and you are wrong, but that's what is said in the article.

Yes, I think we may be wide of the mark (npi) in interpreting this as a airmiss. The RFI article certainly suggests there was actual contact between the 125 and an unidentified Guinee Equatorial AL flight (they have a 767, a 777 and assorted smaller types).

Too, I think that an HS-125 may not be required to be equipped with a CVR and an FDR.

It's not that uncommon for aircraft to overfly a coastal destination and then end up in the drink, even from a single pilot falling asleep while on autopilot.

The plot thickens
 

This is going to be a most interesting story as it unfolds.

An aircraft is missing.
Earlier in the flight another aircraft reported a near miss with the aircraft that is now missing.
Much later, the aircraft that reported the near miss re-states the situation as "we might have hit".
The aircraft that they "might have hit" continued to fly (nordo) until (presumed) fuel exhaustion.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Sounds like all we have is daft theories and press exageration.
If there had been a collision both aircraft would have been damaged, show me pictures of the damage to the other aircraft.

More info here, including details of the CEIB (CEL 071) Boeing 737 that reported the issue.

"L'avion SENEGAL AIR a croisé un vol de la compagnie CEIBA" (ANACIM)

Ancient Geek

With respect...
There is now enough information -- including the communique from ANACIM and the passenger comments -- to indicate that there may have been a midair collision.

That's not a daft notion in west Africa, or anywhere else for that matter, even if one of the aircraft suffered little damage (think Brazil). My guess is that the pictures you are seeking will indeed show up soon.

Cheers,
grizz

Translation
 

via google translate ... unedited.


ANACIM) announced Sunday night that Senegalair air aircraft registered 6 VAIM from Ouagadougou and which is currently at sea researched flight had crossed the BICI (CEL 071) Boeing 737 800 to Cotonou at 18h 12 min GMT about 300 NM (555KM) in Dakar.
'' According to preliminary information, there would have been a collision between the two aircraft, that the results of the technical investigation will confirm or deny, '' says' the ANACIM in a statement received in APS.
The same source added that the CEIBA flight that took off from Dakar at 17h 29 min GMT has finally heading to Malabo where he landed at 21h 40 min.
An air collision is a collision between two aircraft in flight. The main factors explaining these collisions are human (miscommunication, misunderstanding between the pilot and air traffic controller or between pilots, navigational error, decreased alertness, changing flight plans) and material.
The plane of the Equatorial Guinean company CEIBA Intercontinental who had left Dakar on Saturday afternoon to rally Cotonou, was forced, for unknown reasons the hundred passengers who were on board, landing in Malabo where another device was responsible for conveying them to the capital of Benin, told APS Sunday from Cotonou, one of the passengers.
The arrival in Cotonou was planned at 21:30 but with this setback it took place around 3am, the source said, noting that the plane was '' not far from Cotonou '' when '' the commander board announced that for technical and security reasons, he was compelled to focus on
Malabo. ''
'' The crew did not want too much to dwell on the reasons for this were to land or ignored stopover travelers essentially '', added the front passenger to assert that '' the rest of the way to Malabo lasting about an hour after the announcement of the captain, would happen in a heavy silence. ''
By way of explanation, the passenger acknowledges that, like '' a lot '' of his companions' have felt, more than half an hour after taking off from Dakar, a rather abrupt and rapid noise on aircraft '', revealed that a passenger in business class, on the basis of information obtained from the crew, told him that their device '' had come into contact with another outdoor air ... ' '.
Research undertaken since Saturday to find the plane of Air Senegal Company (private) that disappeared from radar screens the same day at 7:08 p.m., resumed Sunday at 6 am with the opening match of two aircraft and a ship of the Navy announced to the Senegalese Press Agency the communications department of the Ministry of Air Transport.
The Navy ship is sufficiently equipped to stay ten days at sea, said the source, adding that at the time of his disappearance Senegal Air aircraft was 111 km west of Dakar, either Wed.
In addition to the logistical deployment, a crisis unit was installed at Dakar airport.
The unit left Ouagadougou had its seven passengers on board; three members of the crew (an Algerian and two Congolese), a Senegalese doctor and two nurses and a fellow French nationality patient.
Prime Minister Abdullah Mahammad Boune Dionne, the Minister of Interior, Daouda Diallo Andoulaye and his colleague of the Armed Forces, Augustin Tine, meadows follow the developments regarding this case.

a mid-air contact would possibly have left some impression on the flightcrew and some marks on the 737..pretty easy to find out

Missing Medevac plane may have collided with Boeing in Senegal
 

The latest from Reuters (Dakar):

"A Senegal-bound medical evacuation plane with seven people aboard appears to have collided with a much larger Boeing plane shortly before vanishing from radar screens, Senegal’s aviation authority said.
The private Senegalair plane was carrying a French patient as well as a doctor, two nurses and three crew members from Burkina Faso’s capital Ouagadougou to Senegal’s Dakar on Saturday night. But it overshot the coastal capital by more than 100 km (60 miles) and then vanished above the Atlantic Ocean.
Search and rescue efforts continued on Monday.

“According to initial information, there was a collision between two aircrafts and we are seeking to either confirm or to rule this out with the technical investigation,” said the director general of Senegalese civil aviation authority ANACIM, Magueye Marame Ndao, in a statement.

At 1813 GMT on Saturday, about an hour before vanishing, the Medevac plane crossed paths with a Boeing B737 800 operated by Ceiba International Airlines about 555 km from Dakar, the statement added.
The Ceiba flight, originally due to fly from Dakar to Benin’s capital Cotonou, later landed in Malabo in Equatorial Guinea where the airline is based. Ceiba was not immediately available for comment.

Among the other passengers on board the plane were two Algerians and a citizen of Congo, the aviation authority previously said, without specifying if that meant Democratic Republic of Congo or Republic of Congo."

There is confusion in Dakar, it's still speculation if the mid-air actually occurred.I don't understand why it takes so much time to ascertain if indeed contact was made; a quick inspection of the 738 should resolve that. The CEIBA aircraft (737-800) after the alleged incident went on to fly past Cotonou (intended destination) and landed in Malabo ?? was it to avoid the grounding of the plane and crew detention pending the investigation, Malabo being the CEIBA base/. The Mid-air allegedly took place 300Nm SE of Dakar. Nothing found yet on the SAR side.

Malabo was in fact the intended final destination of the flight (from Dakar, with a planned intermediate stop at Cotonou).

A physical collision is not the only possible cause of damage.

Both aircraft would have been travelling at around M0.8 pushing a shockwave in front and dragging wake turbulence behind.
At a closing speed of up to M1.6 depending on relative course a close encounter could do a lot of damage, especially to the smaller aircraft.

ATC in most of africa is a joke and something like this was just waiting to happen. At the speeds involved there would have been little chance to see and avoid.

SLOP
 

As African ATC goes, Dakar is actually pretty decent.

Regardless, you would expect both aircraft to have a functioning TCAS.

Off topic perhaps but CEIBA is notorious for not sticking to their published itinerary. I have heard of the Bata-to-Malabo flight being re-routed in mid-air to Mongomo at the call of some VIP's who then kept the plane waiting on the tarmac for hours before taking the trouble to actually show up...

What height was the HS125 at when it overshot?
One would assume that if lost pressurization suddenly after a hit from another aircraft, you would descend the aircraft?
If it was a gradual depressurization, then you would have expected the pilots to get on the radio asking what the heck just about ran them over...

Mid-air confirmation
 

The Minister of tourism and Air transport of Senegal just released a statement, saying that the Equatorial Guinea authorities upon inspection of the CEIBA aircraft are confirming that a collision occurred (Damaged wing on the 738)

Link in french.

Le rapport du pilote de la Ceiba confirme l'abordage

When will we ever learn. So reminiscent of the Brazilian Legacy 600 incident. Again, large areas of no radar coverage.

A few points : The collison apparently occurred in Bamako FIR , so under control of Bamako ATC, not Senegal, so no need to mention Senegal ATC.

Reading the info like you do, the non-radar coverage is not the issue, even under procedural control ( like most of Africa is) 2 aircraft should not be at the same altitude at the same time, but if they did this is not necessarily due to ATC : levels busts, direct or avoidance tracks taken without advising ATC , etc do occur too. Let's wait a bit before aportioning blame and responsibilities here.

Looks like at first that at least one of the TCAS was inop, or not on. ( a transponder issue maybe )

Possibly the 737 wing hit the cockpit , disabled both pilots but a/c kept on flying , speciulation at this stage. The HS25 is in the water, will be difficult to retreive I guess, :" Only" 7 pax, French media not mentioning it much this week end, so the chances we'll never know are high I would say

I would love to see and hear the reports of both pilots of the 737 though...

I had a look at the map in the area. the 737 must have been flying along Airway UA601, which has the following route: Dakar-Bamako-Tamale-cotonou-malabo. All eastbound.

The HS125 was probably flying ouagadougou UG860 bamako UA601 Dakar, west bound.

FL 350 is an eastbound level, so my GUESS is that the 737 was at least at an appropriate FL for its flight.

Perhaps the HS125 was climbing through FL 350..... Cruising at that level would not be appropriate.

Collision occurred at 1813z. Which means during daylight hours, just before sunset. (Sunset on the ground at ouagadougou is at 1815z at the moment.) As the HS125 was flying westbound, they were probably looking into the setting sun.

There were quite a few CBs with tops far above FL350 along their route - depending on the timing they could well have been inside one of those at 1813z.

From avherald.com
 

ATC Watcher...

I'm not sure why you conclude the collision occurred in Mali's airspace, and therefore there is "no need to mention Senegal ATC".

The information we have so far (which is admittedly very little indeed) includes a Lat and Long position given by the Senegalese which puts the B737 in Senegal's airspace when the two aircraft "crossed".

The Senegalese statement also says the CEIBA B737 was "about to be handed off" to Bamako.

So, it is more likely the collision ocurred in Senegal's airspace, though that is not certain of course at this point.

CEIBA seems to have a nice and steady reputation amongst the "not so famous" African airlines...even its Chief Pilot was recently awarded an FAA compliment:

FAA recognizes Alejandro Jose Regner

Janet serious are you?

grizzled :
I had received this info yesterday and was expecting it plus some more to come officially today, but it did not .So like you I am becoming sceptic now. The position given is more or less at the border, so who was controlling who at that moment is the key, because as you know transfers or comms and control rarely occur exactly at the border .

If the avherald article posted by 400drvr is correct with the position at which the collision occurred then they were probably in IMC, clouds up to at least 40,000ft there and quite a few CBs within a 15km radius.

:ugh:

I suggest you read the article before you share it...

FAA compliment? You mean getting his ATP?

The website you linked merely fishes for airmen certificates and then attaches the info to some random article. It is a horrible attempt at clickbait.

Speaking of the steady reputation at CEIBA....

Now dont tell us "CEIBA receives prestigious European Union black list award" :p

The president purchased two 777-200LRs. His personal aircraft operates under the Equatorial Guinea register. The other frame is operated by Portuguese operator White Airways and registered in Portugal, in order to circumvent the EU ban for the Malabo - Madrid flights.



Class act operation!

HKD...i know that much better than you may think..believe me.
BTW...even if you do not agree, my post wasnt so silly at it seems to be.
Peace.:cool: