G650 day rate
 

Anyone have any idea what the contract market is for the G650 daily rate? Fresh type with plenty of off time to contract. Thanks in advance

A fresh airframe with less than a handful delivered, robbreid or flex can tell us exactly how many. All new owners get their crews typed as part of the delivery, so I reckon the need for contract crew worldwide is exactly zero right now, give it a year or so and it may change.

no idea about the rate (too early) but...
 

G650 "market" at this time: (sorry, limited listing as the others won't be for free :=)

I understand the first 6 airframes had issues to be fixed, hence late delivery of 6003 and 6005.

Delivery date / Reg / msn / Operator-Owner / Base

20DEC2012 N711SW 6007 Wynn Resorts KLAS
20DEC2012 N100A 6010 Exxon Mobil Corp KDAL
26DEC2012 N102BG 6011 Contrail Aviation LLC - Berwind Group KPHL
27DEC2012 N650PH 6013 Preston Henn but leased to Gulfstream as demo KSAV
28DEC2012 N762MS 6008 Wal-Mart Stores Inc KROG
31DEC2012 N524EA 6012 Falstaff Partners LLC - Carlyle KIAD
07JAN2013 M-YGVI (OH-GVV) 6006 Airfix - Famous Russian oil company EFHK
26FEB2013 VQ-BNZ 6009 Royal Flight of Jordan OJAI
26FEB2013 N1AL 6015 ALC 6015 LLC - ILFC KVNY
21MAR2013 N100ES 6014 EarthStar - Disney KBUR
28MAR2013 N673HA 6018 Hamilton Aviation Inc KHIO
29MAR2013 N305CC 6021 Carnival Corp KFLL
04APR2013 N520GA 6020 Honeywell Inc KPHX
TBD N211HS 6003 Starbucks KSEA
TBD N914BD 6005 Dillard's Stores KLIT
TBD N886WT 6017 Qualcomm Inc KSAN
TBD N1KE 6024 Nike KHIO

Hi!
Just a small correction, Airfix Aviation Oy is not a famous russian oil-company. The aircraft OH-GVV owner is a russian oil-company.

Airfix Aviation Oy

jukka

Sure, Airfix is the operator. Rosneft or Gunvor are famous russian oil companies. See the dash between Airfix (Operator) and the "owner".

Even with the few airframes flying I have already gotten some requests to provide augmented crew support to outside operators. Since the full service contract is 97000USD I think 2000/day is sufficient to avoid underpricing the market.

Quote: Since the full service contract is 97000USD

Is that for the type rating in a sim?

Does Flight Safety do the type ratings? Any other training organization doing types for the 650?

Last I heard, the ratings are being handled exclusively by FSI, with GAC directing the scheduling of classes, dependent on delivery schedule. All driven by the need to get people qualified in time for airframe delivery.

Feel free to correct me if this has changed!

You are correct.
No type available for the next 2 years
Only 1 sim.

Flight safety in Hong Kong is getting 650 sim later this year.

FM,

Are FSI HK actually adding a new frame/simulator at CX City? Wonder how the setup will be with ground school etc..

Cheers,

Perhaps someone who wanted the 100% answer should call Otto, the manager at FSI in HK and find out. The word I hear is that Cathay is evicting FSI within a year because they want the SIM bay...

I also hear that HK is not packed with students because the expats in HK all want to go to LGB so they can get a trip to the states, and the Chinese companies want to use CAE in DXB because it is cheaper.

? Has anyone heard a date for opening of the 450/550 sim at CAE in Shanghai?

FR

FSI HKG charging full rate for classes doesn't help their cause. When you take into account airfares, it is cheaper to get the job done in LGB than HKG. A benefit of going to HKG (other than it being FSI) is that you are offline for less time. That benefit - of course - depends on your point of view!

I am not a fan of CAE DXB, having gone through one on their box-ticking courses a couple of years back. I continue to hear horror stories about the Gulfstream program there - unqualified (or absent) examiners, incorrect course enrolments, arrogant (and ignorant) instructors, no study notes... I will choose quality instruction over a biz class airfare any day!

In addition to CAE SHA, I have heard that there will be a G450/550 sim somewhere in Guangdong (Zhuhai?): locally run, aimed at B-reg mainland jets. Anyone heard anything about that?

Envoy
All those things you mentioned about CAE DXB have been experienced at FSI HKG!! I got bumped 6 hours so that FSI could train their own people, and only got notified once I arrived at the facility. To little time to go home again, so had to wait at CX city!!! There are a few very good instructors there, but there are also a few arrogant twats that have no place teaching, and NO standardization!! As for the cost, well thats just ridiculous, a recurrent at FSI HKG cost the same as my 550 initial at CAE NJ!!!

US$100,000 for the type, plus or minus a few $$$...
US$2000/day seems about right, if you can get it...not too many airframes and now well over 200 typed pilots.

G650 Freelance rates
 

I have heard €1800.00 to €2200 is the going rate I currently charge €1400 a day for the 450/550 for one off clients and reduce it for regular clients this is obviously all subject to the client.

I can not see enough 650 to justify a 100K type rating however I have had work coming out of my ears lately supporting clients who have 550 and are upgrading to 650 just had 8 weeks solid work supporting G550 clients whilst their crews are being trained on the 650

Do you know how long the initial G650 course takes please?

The initial TR is 24 days

Thanks man.

Hi there, is that 24 days you mention inclusive of any days off? Or maybe there are no days off... Thanks.

G650 day rate
 

EASA seems to have a final approval for GVI Reduced Type Rating training, for GIV and GV pilots fulfilling some prerequisites. This should cut down the Full TR course by 8 days.

Has anyone completed this reduced TR course, and where?

I stand to be corrected, but can't see them giving a G IV rated pilot a reduced course onto the 650, as they would have to do a full course to get on the 550. It would make sense for a 550 pilot to get a reduced course.

G650 day rate
 

B200drvr,

My mistake, should have said V IV-X version, and not only V IV.

I thought if you had 150 hours on G550 you got a reduced course?

G650 day rate
 

150h is the number, yes, and the doc says on G IV-X or G V type.

Will this ever happen? I doubt it. Gulfstream tried to make the G650 a variant to the GV type back during development, and the FAA said no. Also, even if EASA approves reduced training, who would want to do it since they could only fly EASA aircraft.

Would FSI ever reduce the cost? Doubt that also.

FR

FrankR,


Why would you be limited to EASA airplanes? Any of the overseas authorities that currently accepts and validates EASA licenses likely still validate the EASA endorsed type rating. The only limitation would, as far as I can see, be not getting it accepted on your FAA ticket.


Kmax




Below is a link from EASA;


http://www.google.com.hk/url?sa=t&rc...73231344,d.dGc

You are correct Kmax,

So long as you only want to fly EASA reg G650, you are fine. I think you will have a big problem if you want a FAA type later on, since it would be a mountain of paperwork. I bet you will have to take the entire initial over since FSI would otherwise have to get approval for a new variation of "upgrade" type,,,, (if you ever deal with training organizations and the feds, you know how difficult it is).

So I'd say to bite the bullet, and sit through the extra few days in class and get the whole thing. I bet they put you through a full initial anyway, but give you days off when teaching the redundant classes... And it certainly won't cost more...

FR

Is the HK sim going to be an FAA approved device. If not by chance, then no FAA type ratings can be given in that sim.

FrankR,


With the FAA not currently approving the reduced course, it could easily become an issue later on, however only for aircrew, that holds the FAA ticket or would aspire to get one. There's still a lot of aircrew only operating on validations of their EASA licenses, and always have done so, who probably wouldn't care, combined with perhaps thousands of hours on the G IV-X or G-V, too do a reduced TR.


/Kmax

This thread was about daily rates.

EU 1,250 a day is being charged by someone I know straight out of school while he waits for delivery of his G-VI, and he intends to keep the rate for his 14 days off each month.

He didn't pay for his own rating of course. There are those who will undoubtedly ask for more, but at least this guy will be offering recency and he will be in good practice on the type.

Awaiting his G650, he's obviously got a permanent job, in addition to free lancing or at least one lined up, and as such is not making a living out of that rate, which is less than we pay G550 freelance crew.

Another D-Bag bringing the industry down!!!! Hopefully no one will use him due to his lack of experience in the plane!

If he already has a job..... Then why bring the rest of the group down to some stupid low level?

Grow some balls already and get paid for what you do! :ugh:

ALL HAIL NONEYA

.... for saying what ALL professional pilots should have said, or at least been thinking.

FR

I am not saying I condone it, or otherwise, but he WILL have experience and currency on type if he is flying it 14 days a month in his full time job and freelancing the rest of the month.

Just an aside, how many pilots do you think are gonna pay for their own ratings in the hope of picking up freelance work, and how current and experienced in type will they get on the airplane?

I know of two gentlemen in the LA area charging US$2500/day. My understanding is that is fairly common in the US.

G550
 

Anybody have a G550 POH or Type Training Manual copy or CD to sell

While we are talking about the 650, does anyone know what is the quickest delivery that one could expect if willing to buy one?

Seems from above that the market, and not some vociferous posters here (who probably aren't even rated on the G-VI), will determine what the rate should be.

That's the way it should be despite sentiments of insecurity, protectionism and, God forbid, price fixing that seem to abound as soon as salaries/daily rates are mentioned on this forum.

Hi Mutt,
I know a very well placed US individual, who has all the funds available, who has been looking to buy one new off the line from someone who no longer wants one. He has been looking for over a year, and has not been able to make a deal.

If you put down cash today, it will be 53 months +/- last rumor I heard...

FR