Ferry Pilots from "Dengerous Flights" TV show on Discovery
 

Hey guys, could someone shed some light on this profession of delivering GA/ business planes around the world? I never knew these sort of delivery organizations even existed. Is it mainly a US thing or we have them in Europe also? How does one find a pilot job in such a business? Watching the show, it's extremely entertaining!

Am I right in saying their FAA licenses only allow them to fly "N" reg aircraft around the world?

Just curious. Replies and PMs welcome and would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Happens all over the world. Oceanic ferry is NOT an entry level job for newbie cpl's. The licence must match the tail number (or at least a validation by that authority).

Yes I certainly never presumed that it was a career for newbie CPLs! So how do people end up working in these companies and what is the pay like? I'm assuming they get payed per hour?

Dye your hair ginger, eat a bit more than you should, abide only by rules, licencing requirements and regulations that are convenient (ignore the rest), ignore fuel calcs and headwinds, survive at least one deadstick landing and you are pretty much ready to start your own ferry company.

:E

PS also have atrocious spelling

Surprised that this is apparently the first mention of this programme on Pprune. Thought it might have been embargoed by the Mods!
I too find the programme 'entertaining' and although almost certainly over dramatised for TV, having followed the unmentionable ginger one thread with interest (alarm?), what one can plainly see from this programme is the enormous pressure that is exerted to get the aircraft to intended destination. Businesses have to make profits but one doesn't like to see safety take second place. Well done to the pilots who stood up to 'The Boss' !! :D

Don't forget to poke yourself in the eye as well!

Anyone know what's happened to the genge fellow?

Perfect! Im fyling the neccessary paperwork as we speek!
Whilst I can see it would be an extremely stressful job, it looks like a proper, proper adventure. Seems a hell of a lot more challenging and interesting than the average jet jockey. Not for everyone of course but it certainly sparked my interest.

I searched the web for aircraft ferry services but none of them state anything about pilot recruitment. How do these fellas get their jobs? Is it similar to corporate aviation in that one would end up there through networking?

And whats more interesting is how much, and what sort of experience do these companies require from pilots? Presumably thousands of hours flying smaller props?

No, having FAA pilot certification does not limit one to ferrying only "N" reg aircraft. Validations are received frequently for operating aircraft on other national registries.

Deadliest Flights
 

Whilst I have the utmost respect for the pilots who stand up to the owner of the company, 'Cory' whatever, you would not get me anywhere near that joker who obviously would take risks flying from A to B in pursuit of a pay cheque. What professional would sit on the leading edge of a wing whilst a plane is taxying!! Hit a pothole or brake suddenly and off you go into the prop. W---er.:ugh::ugh::mad:

D6, agreed. I believe he comes from the same school as the ginger one who shall not be mentioned!

D6

Are the missing letters of the last word "eav" ??? ;)

I've seen plenty of WW2 films with mechanics sitting on the wings and guiding the pilot during taxi. I can not see how a pot hole (on a paved taxiway?) would cause someone to fly 6 feet forward and to the side into a propeller. I am not promoting this behavior but I would like a better explanation that a pot hole.

Regardless, I will ask my questions again:

How do these fellas get their jobs? Is it similar to corporate aviation in that one would end up there through networking?

And whats more interesting is how much, and what sort of experience do these companies require from pilots? Presumably thousands of hours flying smaller props?

From what I have seen of the series, "Cory" hires pilots who are much more experienced than himself to carry out these deliveries on his behalf. (Haven't we heard this somewhere before?) Then he sometimes takes the right hand seat and puts pressure on them to take risks about which they are not happy. I suppose it takes a special kind of character to stand up to this pressure. After all, given that the job entails flying distances that a greater than those for which the aircraft are normally expected to achieve, you appear to be given the choices of endangering a) your job or b) your life.

That special kind of character is sometimes referred to as "a captain", regardless of the experience and grade of licence held.

PP, touche' :D

Yup,
been watching this program too.

Last episode, the wonder-pilot chap who was a military test pilot, air racer etc etc etc....with that weird looking douche bag in the dodgy coat bollocked up the simple arrival in to BIRK ( and also managed to miss set altimeter and were 1000' low. !!! ) Blamed fatigue....erm ,only flown up from the south coast of UK for crying out loud

Oh dear

...."oh say can you see......"

Still no answer to the original question ?
Is there a rule of thumb minimum for ferry pilot ?

To the OP, I'm no expert on it, but have done research into it;

From what I have been told, there is no set rule for getting into this business. Besides the need for a CPL and IR! Obviously the more experience you have in a variety of aircraft the better, especially from an insurance point of view. I suspect most ferry companies would want you to have serious PIC time to join them, but that's not always the hard and fast rule. (Contact them and find out, if they like your face, you could get in!)

You can ferry anything from a Cessna 150 up to a 747 if you are experienced and appropriately rated in the aircraft. Ideally, you also need to be able to hold more than one license or be able to obtain a validation from some countries you may not hold a license for.

The key thing to consider before getting into ferry piloting is to make contacts. Like any form of small aviation business, its who you know that would lead you to a job. And once you are known to be professional, reliable, safe and a good person, you'll progress even further.

If you want to set up on your own as a freelance business, ontop of the basic business skills and preparation associated with any self employed business, you will still need some solid aviation contacts to supply you with aircraft to ferry (e.g aircraft sales brokers) or help you fly the aircraft on each ferry (other contract pilots).

Or if you are good at selling, you could try selling the aircraft you end up ferrying. Not simple or easy, but doable.

You also need to consider the risks associated with this type of flying, which is very challenging. You may sometimes fly over inhospitable places, or land in places with poor national security. The aircraft can be factory new or in second hand condition with suspect maintenance issues. You will be doing business with people you may not have met face to face, who could be pretty dodgy characters. You may get arrested or detained for simply not following local protocols or due to a communication error. Some places are well set up for aviation, while others are bare bone minimum when it comes to competence. You are the flight planner, inflight trouble shooter mechanic, pilot, impromptu diplomat and business man all at the same time!

As for the amount of experience, it all depends on what you want to ferry. The bigger the iron, the more experience you'll need to satisfy insurance requirements.

Also, its not normally a regular flying gig that pays a large amount. Some people ferry once every few days, some once a month, others once a year! It depends on how much you want to do it and which aircraft owners or sales brokers you know, that can give you a steady supply of work. The more you hustle, the more you fly.

Watching "Dangerous flights" is a good basic window into what you can expect.

Hope this helps. Like I said, I'm no expert, but did some research into it a while ago.

:ok:

Thanks Jay :ok:

I would be very keen on giving it a shot one day. For now I need to concentrate on how the heck I'm gonna pay for the fATPL :rolleyes:

Hopefully as soon as I get into the industry I will start making contacts and we'll see where we go from there.

Thanks for the info though. it all sounds very interesting... like any kind of flying usually.

Yes, the insurers will decide that - unless you are an overweight, ginger haired lying thief, in which case you simply invent your experience and qualifications.

BTW no news regarding Sky Ferry of late. Is he still at large?

Indeed. Almost all underwriters will require a pilot to have completed several crossing under tutelage prior to covering you as PIC.

I'm a Ferry Pilot based in the USA (www.theferrypilot.com). I've been contacted by the producers of the show a few times, and even by some of their pilots.

They are desperate for flights to finish filming their third season.
The way it works is that they are looking for companies like mine to "donate" flights to their TV program. They told me that they will present it as my flight but that I "NEEDED" to hire the help of one of their mainstay pilots on the show in order to complete the job (coming to my aid!).:ugh:
Their pilot will fly the flight for me, and I will get a mention in the credits. (who says I can trust them? I saw an episode when they buzz a waterfall in a clients aircraft because it was "a cool shot"!)

I told them that I dont mind if they tag along during a flight but it would be ME at the controls. (I take my good reputation very seriously and wont compromise it for a TV spot) but when it came to compensation, they werent willing to offer anything!

I then asked them why they think sitting in a Cessna, droning along for hours on end is interesting. The producer told me, and I quote: "Dont worry, we will edit the drama in!"

Suuuurrreeee... make it look like I am flying unsafely, my clients and the FAA inspectors who will watch the show will LOOOOOVE that ! :bored:

On top of all that, in addition to the actual ferry, they want to do a full day of shooting "Air to Air" shots for fill in segments here and there AND interview the pilot at each fuel stop. That wastes time, time is money! Why would I waste my clients money with this crap?

If the show offered me some financial incentive that I can then pass along to my clients to make it worth their while and if they let me fly MY flights that I work hard to secure, then maybe I would participate. But just for the sake of having a TV spot... nope.

Speaking with the production company really opened my eyes to how "reality TV" works. Like all reality TV, take it with a grain of salt.

Shocked at what was going on in the Phenom... Hoping it was a dramatisation!!

Its a single pilot aeroplane, the "company" monkey was there for tv purposes. As bzwebner pointed out, they will "edit in the drama". Tonight showed what looked like a badly handled situation, however, i refer to my last sentence.

This programme is now getting on my tits !!
The narrator makes out that flying is super dangerous and over dramatises every detail.

Each approach ends with 4 whites, pilots worried about night flying? Christ, the one in the bonanza said he used to fly airlines ?

As for the Phenom operation.....I would ground the 2 of them for utter incompetence. 1 on O2, 1 not.....a STALL ?? How ?
If i had to share an aircraft with any of them, they would only occupy a pax seat down the back.

Rant over

There are enough media whores out there that'll do anything to see themselves on the TV, serious pilots will avoid the producers approaches like the plague.

I ask this question as only a lowly low hour PPL holder.


Is it really that simple to update the computers on the Phenom? Go to the Embraer website, plug in an SD card do a download, then plug it to the plane?

I know they use of clever edits to make it look dramatic, but its quite easy to get sucked into the dramatic action :ugh:

My personal fav is 'Randy' claiming a lightning bolt nearly 'downed' the airliner he was flying on as a pax :}

@BG he was updating the database(s) on the G1000. It has to be done at regular intervals, depending on your setup. We have five databases, supplied by Garmin and Jeppesen on subscription, and they all update at different intervals. Jepp charts update every two weeks, just like the paper.
If any one of them is expired you get messages and big red crosses on the screens........the aircraft flies without this stuff but it's way more convenient with it.

bzwebner - excellent posting. Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story'?

Two more observations:

1. Has anybody else noticed how during the fill-in "flyby" shots, all the turboprops sound like pistons - "Airplane" style...

2. I've always felt it's better to be a bit late in this world than awfully early in the next, but it seems that view isn't shared by everybody...

According to his t*****r feed, Randy McGehee is a Delta 757/767 Captain

Flying experience
 

Reading from previous question below is a typical reply i got from companies doing ferry flying..

to ferry for us you need an ATP atleast 2000 hrs , multi engine with turbine time at least 500 hrs , the pilot we select are trained our way and have to follow company policys to the last word ,they all start at the bottom of the ladder ferrying pistons first, they will also fly on wing or lead for the first 5 trips ,, if you are now only starting you licience, do com, IF and instructors TO BUILD HRS,, enjoy ,,

Not that easy to get there!

Director Killed in Crash While Filming

It was only a matter of time till something like this happened.

My thoughts are with the families of those who are gone.

OK Folks...With no disrespect, here's my take....I have ferried aircraft worldwide (granted, not SEL types) but everytime there were never, ever SAFETY issues....

I haven't ploughed through this thread because it is all B.S....(i.e.-Hollywood)

I can't imagine a "real" ferry company, let alone a real "ferry pilot" getting involved in something like this...

Without slamming the "pilots" involved, real ferry pilots are paid very well for their efforts, knowledge and abilities....

Plus there is a tremendous self-satisfaction factor for getting the job done...

As an afterthought, why is it that ALPA is resisting cameras in the cockpit?....

Question also, who arranges their permits, handling, fuel, flight planning etc or do they do it themselves on a wing and a prayer :confused:

They obviously have delays but they have so far failed to mention the "back stage" planning that goes on for these flights.

What do you guys think of the Co-pilot grabbing the controls in an aircraft of which he had little experience, from the Pilot who had much more experience of that machine?

The FO had more total hours, but little on that type. He clearly did not like flying as FO anyway and thought that his overall experience was more important.

I am amazed that the Pilot thanked him for being with him after the flight, I would have expected that he might even refuse to fly with him again.

I have watched four episodes of this. In the last two, as a Cirrus driver myself, the Cirrus ferry that they did made my blood run cold.

1. Flying through "the eye of a storm" in a small SEP?

2. I also noticed that they were flying an SR22 at 15.6 GPH fuel flow. Right in the middle of the Red Fin. Wouldn't cause them to lose the engine on this flight, but the potential for engine damage that will only be found a couple of hundred hours later is significant.

3. Then the right seat co-pilot doing his best to unnerve the "captain" by coaching him through every landing.

4. Flying to Greenland with no alternate planned and not being sure that the fuel reserve is adequate or meets regulations.

OK: I accept that the makers have edited in a bit of drama but, even so, there are now two ferry companies that I will never use.

Jonzarno

Just for one minute imagine you were making a film about ferry flying?
Would you want the viewers to be bored silly by perfect uneventful flights or would you want the mostly non aviation viewers to sit gripping their seats as you do battle with the elements numerous life threatening emergencies etc.

Flying can be many hours of boredom with a few slightly exciting bits thrown in the pot.

Not enough for a best seller in the movie stakes so I would imagine a certain amount of color and creative imagination will take place.

Sadly creating life threatening scenarios is well ??? Life threatening and sadly two have been killed.

One of my Citation ferries 5 years ago would have made a good film from India to the UK problems in New Delhi, bribing custom officials, wreck of a citation, departing at night into a monsoon with so many flashing cloud the sky stayed illuminated.
Being escorted to the toilet by gun wealding soldiers in pakistan! Being told to land for fuel over Iran at Night in an N reg! Being stuck in Dubai unable to get a landing clearance in Saudi Arabia.
Landing in Saudi with 2000 meters in dust which changed in seconds on touchdown to 100 meters in a sandstorm.
Big row in Alexandria no computer or plates for Crete! Bribes again and three car escort to an internet Cafe by thugs to print off plates and more failures in that aircraft that made a sim look tame :E
Oh well should have taken the video camera along :ok:

I would classify myself as the occasional ferry pilot not A ferry pilot!

Pace

Pace

That all sounds very bold. :8

As regards the programme:

Obviously, the Cirrus ferry on DF did have lots of drama edited in, but the one thing that clearly wasn't was the fuel flow. I only spotted it because I paused the programme to look at the MFD and know what I am looking for. No non-pilot would ever have noticed or understood.

The owner seems like a walking ego. And as mentioned the Kerry bloke is just plane dangerous.
Not sure why they allowed it to air as it is. All it does in my book is resolve never to use any of the pilots on the show. As for the Embraer 'incident' if that was in certain countries airspace the pilot would be expecting a call I'd imagine.