GIV Crash - LFMQ / Le Castellet
 

Updated thread title to Gulfstream as new information arises...

Six Trapped After Jet Crashes In France

'Emergency services are trying to put out the blazing Mystere-Falcon 20 whose passengers are reportedly all US citizens. The accident happened at Castellet airport, between Marseille and Toulon.

Unconfirmed reports say the passengers were all US citizens and five are believed to have died.'

It looks like it's not a Falcon 20, but a GIV (yet to be confirmed)! If I'm wrong, of course I'll remove this post.

Falcon 20 Accident south of France
 

Monkey Boy:

The photo shown above is a Falcon 20 and not a Gulfstream.

French news websites report it was a G-IV with three American crew members on board (aged 24, 61 and 30) who -unfortunately- died. They mention a technical issue in flight. The aircraft took off from Nice and reportedly broke up in two, with one part ending up in a nearby lake and the other taking fire.

Latest from CNN:

Of course - the press never make mistakes do they? My source is a little more reliable than Sky News.

Possible aircraft (unverified):

https://twitter.com/BizJetBlogger/st...94946463891456

Flat Spin
 

At least we haven't had the compulsory "tragic accident" description, as opposed to the usual comical or joyful ones, of course.

A flightplan for N823GA Nice-Le Castellet existed. So, thats a high likelyhood.

All other G4 out of Nice went some places else...

1986 build Gulfstream IV msn 1005 / N823GA operated by Universal Jet Aviation as flight number UJT823.... Flew ATH-SAW-NCE and then ferry to Le Castellet by the looks of things.....

Pilot’s guide – Aéroport International du Castellet

What approaches are available?

The airport web site says an ILS -- but AIP does not appear to have one listed.https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv..._AD-2.LFMQ.pdf

Jepp's shows only NDB and circling approaches

MSN 1005.......First production GIV.

La Provence reporting that the two flight deck crew age 61 and 24, and the hostess aged 30, were the only victims.

Le Castellet | Crash d'un jet au Castellet : trois morts | La Provence

Zeffy,

Definitely no ILS, landed there dozens of times.

Runway is on a plateau and subject to strong cross winds and turbulence. Anybody got the METARS yet?

Le Castellet has several circling NDB approaches and as has been mentioned, there are several gotchas. That strong turbulence is suddenly blanketed by the treeline from about 25 feet or so and the deceiving, " J" shaped runway can greatly compound float. Not an Aspen or Samedan, but one to be respected.

I have worried about an accident at Castellet and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a late touchdown and departure from the runway. I think it also sits on a plateau from memory.

Again, its a Universal Jet Aviation operated aircraft, the plug needs to be pulled!

http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...inces-jet.html

....a note I made some time ago!! :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

IS-BAO + Wyvern Wingman + ARG/US Platinum endorsements.

Universal Jet Aviation Inc :: Safety First :: +1 561-989-0025

Universal Jet Aviation Inc :: Aircraft Charter GIV N823GA :: +1 561-989-0025

You can get any accreditation if you are willing to pay for it! :mad:

Gulfstream 4 fatal crash in France
 

G4 crashed at Castellet, apparently on takeoff or landing, no details on that yet but it's on the airport. Three dead, two men and woman, all crew. No pax aboard.

Official: 3 Americans die as private jet crashes in France - CNN.com

Already posted here: http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...castellet.html

while it is hard to see, the photo in the above cnn link shows the port side thrust reverser deployed.

from this I gather that the plane aborted/rejected the takeoff...though it is still too soon to be sure.

going off the end of a runway, attempting to stop...always llook for thrust reverser position

It is not a Falcon 20, I flew it, the horizontal stabilizer looks like a Gulfstream IV. Since they were landing there they probably landed long and couldn't stop. Usually the FO gets the empty legs so may have played into the crash. He was young and the captain gave him too much leeway on landing. Unfortunate but I have let new guys land a bit long too but at some point, I have said land now or go around. You want to help the new guys but there is a limit on how much you can help them without endangering your flight.

My conclusion: pilot entered stall and pulled back on the flight controls as per French training procedure

While I am no fan of the operator or its president, isn't it a bit early to stomp on the dead and monday morning quarterback? Three souls perished yesterday.

Hey 44 if you had to do a go-round you made a mistake too, just as much as the new be. FYI been doing Operating Experiance for close to 30 years. Just don't let them get so far.... :rolleyes:

We don't think the French really teach that way. Airbus might say the Airbus is unstallable in normal mode but dought if they teach it. I hope not.

file, I never went around once in 23,000 hrs unless it was low weather. I made the FO land every time because he didn't want to go around either. Going around isn't a big deal, by the way. It is part of every instrument approach. I think letting your FO make decisions prepares him for becoming a captain. Micro managing him doesn't. What do you think?

GIV
 

Plenty of runway
Wx seems reasonable.

TR deployment on landing is normal, if only one deployed still no big deal, can land and stop no problem with a bit more brake application. Not sure of the #s but I suspect in the mid to high 3000s

A number of things could have contributed to the accident, to many to mention. Could have been anyone of us.

Thoughts go out to the families and friends

The requisite amount of Pprune accident speculation. The facts appear to be:

1. US registered G IV flown by a known US operator
2. Occurred at LFMQ, LE Castellet, frequent "parking spot" when Nice is full
3. Wreckage is off the far end of runway
4. 3 crew died, RIP.

Beyond that, the BEA will have investigate.

GF

Mayday, your parting comment was crass in the extreme. Have some respect for the victims.

"Usually"?! Really?! Why would that be? Hire the wrong type of guys?

My philosophy is that the less experience a colleague has the more sectors should he/she be PF on, as long as there are no special conditions calling for anything else. For example bad weather combined with first time landing at an airport, company procedures requiring Cpt to perform the landing or if someone feels that "this one I'd prefer to be PNF on to get a chance to observe it" for whatever reason they may feel that that is a good idea to do.

There is, as far as I understand, and despite some comments here, no doubt that it was Universal Jet Aviation's G-IV sn 1005. Apparently a source withing the company made this statement last night:

As to what caused the accident I'll let the authorities do their job....

CP

Var-Matin giving unattributed report that the aircraft landed late/long on the runway.

Trois morts dans l'accident | Var-Matin

Another report from Var-Matin with more photos and a Google Earth picture of the airfield. The crash site is at the bottom right corner in the trees bordering the lake.

Trois morts dans un crash de jet privé au Castellet (VIDEO) | Var-Matin

Anybody have info about LW? The Fuel there is extremely expensive, may be they also were a bit heavy?


R.I.P.

Just an observation. I may have seen it wrong but from the video I got the impression that the main wreckage was at the end, but well to the left, of the runway. Perhaps it was indeed a G/A and subsequent stall.

GIV Crash France.
 

Personally I think we should all not speculate in to what is a tragedy to the families of the crew involved.
The DGCA FAA NTSB and the Manufacturers will make the final decision on this incident.
As a GIV-GV pilot with over 10,000 hours on type based in europe its always disturbing to hear when one is lost.

By the way, can't the mods change the post's title? It most definitely was not a Falcon. Why is this still in the title?

I started the thread based on the initial information indicating it was a Falcon. When it came to light it was a Gulfstream, I edited my initial post and title but it does not seem to have edited the thread title, and I don't believe I'm able to do that. Mods should be able to sort it out, but haven't jumped in yet.

Title sorted

VD. My apologies. I've changed the setting that made viewing the thread compulsary for you

Rob

Don't worry about the title, it was a GulfsteamIV. None of us has any idea how it ended up off the end of the runway so we will wait for the accident report. I am sorry if my report of the new guys flying the empty legs were normal I appologize. That is how we did it to give the passengers a smooth landing while the new guy got experience. Everybody has their own procedure.