Gulfstream vs Global
 

Just wondering, what would be the more intersting qualification to have for freelance work, Gulfstream or Global?

Global

Good luck

fluctuates
 

Assuming that you had 501 hrs on each, and were prepared to move around then this week I would say GLOBAL....next week who knows.

If you hade 0 hrs, then neither.....

If you had 1000+ then it is all about who you know.... but in general Global....ACASS are a good place to start.

But then I am always looking for my next gig, and thats Gulfstreams.

More interesting. well they cover the same routes, ranges, and destinations, in terms of fun to fly the I think the G550 wins.



glf

I like Gulfstream....................and I like Global, but which is better ?........................................................... ............................................................ ............................................................ ...................FIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!:ouch::ouch::ouch:

You have to be a Brit to get the reference

Whichever one gets me the job and the company/owner picks up the cost of the rating... as long as some European doesn't come running and waving his checkbook to pay for his own rating. :mad::mad:

I am and I dont....
 

You have to be a Brit to get the reference

glf

He is talking about freelance job, most freelance pilots pay for their training, no company is going to pay your rating to employ you for maybe 3 days.

Of course you would never accept, a job in Europe, stealing it from an European, right:rolleyes:

Regarding the GLEX type rating-
Good news: Global has 2 additional variants on the horizon. Global 7000 and 8000.
Bad news: ALL new Globals, including 5000 and 6000, will come with the new "GlobalVision" avionics. Not sure this will be a separate type rating but surely will require differences training.

new rumour
 

The G650 will just have a differences from the 550......

But you must have the INITIAL on a G550, not a G450 or G5.

You heard it first here.

glf

Gulf,

What´s the difference between doing the initial of G450 and then differences for the G550 and the opposite? Cost? Time?

Thanks.

In general G550 and differences is best routeThere are very few G450 simulators in th
 

The G550 is quite common.

The G450 differences is 1 day.

I suspect the G550 and G450 differences will always be cheaper.

As to specific prices I can not answer that, the G550 route is prefered as it in basically less cost to most students.

I suggest you ask the service providers, as well as any consolidators.

A pair of students might be less expensive that a one off.

Glf

Gulf,

Thanks for your reply.
I have to do the initial next year for a brand new G450. The training is provided at not cost by Gulfstream.
I wonder if I could do the G550 initial instead of G450 and then differences.
This way, the step to get the G650 rating would be easier, as you say.
Does it make sense?

I´ll ask FSI and GALP anyway.

Thanks.

In Theory
 

Glf should give the G450 initial...there are several differences that are quite relevant.

Also if you have not flown G4 then you might not get the full benefit of the initial, and the G450 would eb the best route.

Then you can do your recurrent on the other model....

Glf

It would have to be the Global. Far more of the type around in Europe. Also helps if you are a Captain.

I used to be G5/550 rated and with time on type. I couldn't get the slightest interest until my LPC had expired. On inquiring how much it would be for a renewal from the one and only provider in the UK, I was quoted US55000(!!)

Needless to say, after 15 months in the doldrums I am now doing something else.

The other useful rating in Europe is the Embraer Legacy. Lots of those around.

The Gulfstream is a great aircraft to fly if a tad skittish and not terribly reliable when used like an airliner but a fairly useless type rating in Europe in my experience.

Good luck.

Interesting thread. I'm an aircraft owner, not a pilot, we are currently operating a G550 and have a delivery position for a 650. At the urging of serveral friends we looked closely at the Global Express line when we were preparing to buy and were thoroughly unimpressed, both with aircraft itself, and with Bombardier. I do understand that it sells very well in Europe, and not so much in North America. My hope in reading this thread was to understand the perceived advantages of the Global that makes it sell so well in Europe?

It would be interesting to compare the t/o and landing perf of the G550 and Global. The Global has slats whereas the G550 doesn't. Now I'am wondering if these slats could gives better performances on the Global in order to land on European's shortests runways (Samedan, Cannes, St Gallen Altenrein, etc..) whereas in the USA most of runway strips are long enough to be operated by any kind of plane. This would explain the Bombardier's success in Europe against Gulfstream.
Take that as a simple question, not a trigger pulled on Ppruners to get "what is best".

Marcus, would you care to expand on this, what exactly did you find lacking in the aircraft/company?

Mutt

Well to begin with, the sales force/demo people seem to begin with the assumption that they would lose out to Gulfstream without knowing whether we even intended to comparison shop. That, in and of itself, wasn't terribly impressive.

The demo flight was short (about 30 minutes), hot (cabin temp about 80F) and very noisy. I don't know why this should have been so, and did not ask. They volunteered the fact that they'd had "ECS problems with this demonstrator".

We came prepared with a list of 30 questions we wanted answered, concerning the aircraft's performance ("well it's better than a GIV"). None were answered during our visit but they promised to get back to us. They never did.

I thought the interior was rather nice, until I compared it to a Falcon 2000 and a G550. Then it seemed rather minimalist and uncomfortable.

There were other things as well. Perhaps a better sales presentation/demo/demo flight would have relieved some of these issues. I don't know.

This was some 20 months ago, I guess so I'm basing my comments on my aging memory. I didn't take notes, and hadn't thought much about the Global until I happened across this thread.

Our flight crew had no input in our decision as we had committed to Gulfstream before we found/hired our crewmembers.

A Global's speeds are 18 knots slower than a G450, but only a few knots different for landing than a G550. The takeoff speeds on a GLEX are lower than either one, owing a lot to the low Vmcg (86 knots) and some to the slats. The G550 has some more range, if you fly 6,000 nm legs frequently. The Boss ALWAYS likes the room of the GLEX.

GF

Price.

We operate a Falcon and it is open knowledge that the boss wants to upgrade, BBD have cut seven figure numbers off the price to get is to come over.....

They are not there yet:E

Not having flown either despite asking Santa for a type rating every Christmas but in conversation with someone who has flown both (currently flying a GLEX), his comment was that the GLF was better to fly but the GLEX was more comfortable. :ok:

@Marcus

I can absolutely /sign your experiences - unfortunately i´m no owner but a pilot, and i only had the pleasure to join a "friend" of mine on his demo flights on both G550 and GLEX.

First of all i can say that i adore the Gulfstream interior design - i really was disappointed by the GLEX cabin. No real chance to compare it, especially the natural light is far better inside the Gulfstream thanks to the beautiful windows.
Second i prefer the Gulfstream avionics - in my opinion they seems to work more effective and i felt much faster quite comfortable in the cockpit.

Also the Gulf demo team seemed far more motivated to sell an aircraft, but maybe the Bombardier guy simply had a really bad day.

After all, if i get the chance to fly on one of both aircrafts in the future or if i should suggest the "better" one, i would choose the Gulf, although i also really respect the GLEX as a great aircraft...

I believe the info about the 650 type being just differences from the 550 is inaccurate. Originally that was the plan, but according to people that are involved in the program that will not be the case.. It will require a new type.

The info that I got from a Gulfstream Test Pilot is that it will be a new type rating for the 650 regardless of previous G550 type, however if you are typed on the 550 the ground school and sims will be about one week instead of the usual three plus. Along the lines of a recurrent but still requiring a type check ride.

Doesn't popular thinking go along the lines of:

Pilots love the Falcons

Owners/Pax love the Globals

Engineers love the Gulfstreams

Never flown any of them, so can't comment from personal experience, but I've heard this stated a number of times.

With reference to the Falcons: a Falcon pilot I met asked me if I knew why the Falcons had three engines. I replied, "No, not really."

His answer: "Because they couldn't find room for a fourth one."

Why? if the B747-8i can be flown with a B744 rating, why can't Gulfstream put some effort into getting common type ratings?

Mutt

From what I understand, the G650 is fly by wire whereas the 550 is conventional. The FAA decided that was a big enough difference to warrant a new type rating. Gulfstream would have been delighted with a common rating as it would have been a sales point. The fact that the holder of an existing 550 rating can do a truncated course is in no small part down to lobbying by the good folks from Savannah.

The 747-8i/F is simply a rehash of the 747 400 with a slightly different wing and different engines. The flight deck instruments have also been updated.
I have just done the 747-8 differences course. The biggest difference is the electronic flight bag and electronic checklist and that's not a big deal.

Same situation as the 737 300/400/500 and the 737NG which can be flown on the same rating. The differences in the flight deck displays, as well as the performance of the NG were much more marked than the 747 which is just a bit heavier and with more poke in the engines. The other major differences are a RAT and some clever automatic stuff with the hydraulics not requiring any pilot input, and which makes no difference to flying the thing.

A FBW system is a lot more complex and requires a significant change to the checklists and QRH. Hence, new TR.

The Falcon 900 and 7x look much the same but have a different type rating for the same reason.

If you want a 4-engine-business-jet, buy a 747-XXX.....

The Falcon´s are just fine with three.....

Pilots love them, Owners love them because of operational costs....

Comparing a ( for example ) 7X with a GLEX or a 550 is comparing apples with oranges....all beautiful aircraft, but all different....so please no Falcon/GLEX/550 bashing:=

http://i.planepictures.net/73/67/1210009950.jpg

Good point Lady Grey. I am sure that for many people the GLEX or the Falcon is the optimal solution for their needs. For us, the G550 was the perfect fit for what our family sought in transportation. It is comfortable, meets all our range/performance needs, and is awesomely supported by Gulfstream.

For others, the Falcon or the GLEX may be the perfect solution. For us they were not.

Want a four-engined biz jet, buy a Jetstar II. The interior od a Challenger 300, less range, 33% more fuel burn, miserable to maintain, but cheap to buy.

GF

Plus they look really really cool.

Here's my take on GLEX vs. Gulfstream:

We looked at G450 and Global5000, among others. Coming from a CL 604 the boss' first impression of the G450 was the too-narrow cabin. We wanted a forward galley which Gulfstream was not willing to do. This was the deal breaker.

We now have 900+ hours on a new Global5000 and apart from a few teething problems the plane has been very dependable. Cabin systems have been the biggest issue/disappointment for Global owners. The new cabin Collins CES (Cabin Entertainment System) is reliable.

Only gripe: Global relies heavily on computers so many BITE tests as things are booted up. She requires a gentle touch and a patient pilot until things are up and running properly. After that...all good.

Ksjc

As I say, "Globals reward patience and discipline"

GF

Gulfstream will put a forward galley on any large cabin aircraft they make. The Global 5000 has had an interesting accident history.

Global - Gulfstream
I am lucky to have some experience on both platforms now.... - 6 years on Global Classic and Vision and now on the G650 since this year.
Well -- to complain about one of the manufacturers is like moaning on a high level, but there are some differences though:

I have accompanied the delivery of several globals out of the Montreal delivery centre and the delivery of our G650 now from Long Beach and SAV. Besides the shiny delivery centre, the BBD delivery team seems to put much more effort in producing happy customers. Adressed faults during delivery (if any) are handled very professional.
I had very different experiences now in LGB--- here the customer seems to be some disturbing factor..-- we adressed a couple of problems, but most of them were just sort of tested and no fault found --- well we still have some of those after EIS...

Flying the machine itself: The Global Vison avionics are well advanced to the Plane View of Gulfstream (sorry to say Gulfstream guys...) - it´s much more simple and efficient to operate a Vision than the GVI... (besides that Honeywell has not yet fixed some problems since ages... (wind upload vanishing, lost approaches on flyby) - but just offeres walkarounds..
Both planes have likely the same enginges -- just compare starting the Glex to starting the 650...
For the 650 it seems, like there is a switch from each previous Gulfstream in memorial.....-- they did it, like they always did it before....

Space in the flightdeck is a big minus for the 650...-- the cockpit is just much more narrow than on the Glex

The Wing and FlyByWire of the 650 are really great - i enjoy handflying and landing this platform -- it´a big pro-point for the gulfstream!

Cabin: The huge windows of the 650 speak for themselves...--- but both Cabin Managment Systems produce errrors and problems...
Loading the Gulfstream is not that easy like on the Glex...-- higher and smaller door..

I will fly my boss on whatever plane pays the bill - but at the moment the Global is still my favourite.
just my two cents
welle

I am not a pilot, but preparing to purchase a GXRS, G6000 or G550. I read through the comments and noticed the someone stated that the 6000 had a shorter takeoff that the 550. I would assume due to the slats and other differences. But, on paper the XRS and 6000 are 200ft more than the 550.

My Question:
Due to my need to fly into some airports in the 5500ft Range. With a crew of 3 (average) and 4 Pax (average) and reduced fuel load, what is the shortest, good and safe runway take off length? For both if possible.

I really like the 7X and the short field performance and quality, but I want a crew rest area like the Global and G550. Also need the 6000+ NM range.
So it is either the XRS, 6000 or 550. Just need the one with the true best short field performance.

So what are the true numbers as asked above? Thank you for your input!!

JOSS 66, I had a long response types out, but there's enough agro in the world. Only one of your listed aircraft will do over 6,000 nm (in the real world) but it won't do it off a 5,000' runway. Free answers available via google. Detailed, guaranteed answers, available from me for just 2% of your final purchase price. Small investment for a $20 million purchase.

Good luck.