DC 3 down near Berlin
 

Hi, just did hear this one but no additional details. Has anyone more info ?

I know they tried to return to the runway shortly after take-off but obviously did not make it.
Another traffic in the area reported them down somewhere near the threshold 07 and the construction site of BBI.
The airport was closed for about 15-20 minutes and media reports 4-7 injured passengers but nothing severe.

click

Associated Press:

More here (in German) including a photo: Berliner Kurier - Rosinenbomber notgelandet: Verletzte

Berlin Airlift, you know.
Plane was three years younger than I. Saw it often flying around. Thought I should take the trip some day.... Will be missed if they are not able to put it together.

Photos from the site shows a very damaged Rosinenbomber. Large parts of the right wing was ripped off after a crash with a fence post close to a crash gate.

http://www.bz-berlin.de/multimedia/a...la_2386916.jpg

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/schoene3/1863996.jpg
Right wing

Good 'ol DC-3. Strong as ever and I am sure the pax/crew were lucky to be in a DC 3 and not some plastic at 210kts clean into that field! Just unfortunate the numbers of DC-3's are not increasing.

Good job to the crew:ok:

Looks a bit like a prop blade sticking straight up from the port donk - if that is indeed what it is then it was not rotating at impact.

That looks like a w/o. :}

That should buff out...
 

Well, the outer wing just bolts on to the inner stub wing outboard of the engine nacelle. See the story of the DC-2 1/2, for instance.

I was surprised to see a DC-3 being repaired with a shiny-new wingtip after the old one had been mangled in an argument with a telephone pole guy wire at Miami International about 30 years ago. The mechanic laughed and told me that there were warehouses full of DC-3 spares because so much stuff was produced during the War. If that still includes wings then this might not be so bad. Fixing the engine might be more troublesome.

Good to know that all are okay. I would suggest that the term write-off is not in the vocabulary of the warbird community.

Was once KN442 of the RAF (1945-1952), and G-AMPZ of Air Atlantique. Always sad to see a Dak get bent.

G-AMPZ was the first Dak I flew in at West Malling in the mid-80s GWAS. :eek:

Just unfortunate the numbers of DC-3's are not increasing.

Now the Twin Otter is back in production, maybe the DC-3 should be next. :ok:

The Only Replacement for a DC3 is...another DC3.
 

xoxoxoxoxoxDC3

I just love them
 

Interesting: Out of the five DC-3s that I used to fly in as a pax way back then as a kid, two or three, and probably more, have ended up fatal. Yet, I would like fly in them if an opportunity arose.
RD

Never mind the fin, I would be more worried about the orange glow coming from where No2 fuel, hydraulic, oil and alcohol lines are!

My guess regarding the fin, RFFS did not want to get downwind and this is the only direction to get the foam nozzle over the fuselage towards aforementioned No2. Damaged in the process.

Poor old girl, knew her well not so long ago. She will be back in the air do not worry about that:)

Fire on the right side in that pic, airport fire engine on the left in the later pics probably just shoot through with the water canon.

Ah well farewell PZ queen of the skies.

Was that G-AMPZ?

Bugger!

In flew in that girl (baxseating) many many many times.

Not nice to think of her as dead.

It's a bit like hearing that a great-aunt has died.

Farewell
 

GAMPZ used to be part of the original Eastern Airways in the 70s and 80s, based at Humberside Airport, mostly doing charters UK and Europe wide.
It did the first Humberside - Heathrow sheduled service, quite a moment as we taxied in and were parked next to a B.A Concorde, it was even better to see all the BA Engineers bring out their apprentices to show them what a real aeroplane looked like!

And before that it was owned and operated by Starways at Liverpool in the 60s.

Slightly bemused...
 

A year or so ago I recall reading that UK DC3s had been grounded (for pax flights), by EU rules. Now I look here and see a pax-carrying DC3 just crashed in Germany.

Is it me (after just watching Dr Who) ? A quick look turns up:

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Dakota grounded

From June 08. To quote the video:

"...last chance anyone will ever have of taking a pleasure flight on one of these iconic planes, because from next month all passenger flights on them will be banned..."

So, WTF :confused:

Or is this another case of PITA EU rules that the UK imposes on direction from the rest of Europe who then ignore them or exempt themselves from them ?

Seriously? Why? The aircraft carried untold zillions of people in decades past, safely. Why would it be suddenly unsafe now?

Ironically, if a large number of airframes end up destroyed in crashes, that may simply be an indication of reliability. After all, if you keep an aircraft airworthy with proper maintenance, you can fly it indefinitely … and if you fly it indefinitely, then logically the only thing that will stop it from flying is a crash that results in a write-off. So you might actually expect to see all of the most reliable aircraft end their lives in massive crashes.

Isn't this a C47?

THE donk ?

[ I know the DC3 single engine performance is legendary, but you're still supposed to at least start the filght with one on the other wing as well. ]

"Isn't this a C47?"

I think an earlier poster pointed out that it started its military life with the RAF. So though it may have once been a DC-3, it was never a C-47.

OK a Dakota then.

can I ask someone with pilot experience what the DC3 is able to do on one engine ?
cheers
Pete

I'm not sure how many DC3 pilots will be reading this thread, but as a mere admirer of the second-most wonderful aeroplane ever to have graced the skies (my first love carries a crowbar in the cockpit door ;) ), I'm sure any DC3 is not only capable of flying on one engine, but with a light load could probably take off with one - in fact if memory serves correctly, this was once demonstrated.

Sad to see this, hope it can be repaired.
Last flight I had in one was back in '70s, sidesaddle from Bougainville to Honiara. Pilots were twin brothers who had been QF apprentices a couple of years ahead of me.

As an apprentice in about 1963, I saw a poem about DC3s. All I can remember are the last two lines:
"They'll still be making bloody dough
When other planes no longer fly."

Does anyone have the whole poem?

Arthur Emmons Raymond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1991 Arthur E. Raymond
Trophies and Awards at the National Air and Space Museum - National Air and Space Museum Trophy

Apparemtly thr first DC3 built couldn't attend the 50th aniversary fly-in because it was still in active service flying pasengers.

DC-3 Single Engine Performance
 

It's getting late here. I'll post more tomorrow after I learn more.

I've got about 3,000 hrs. PIC in DC-3s. Single engine performance depends on how good the pilot is, how strong the remaining engine is, and weight of the aircraft.

The book says it should climb out at better than 300 fpm on a single engine at gross. I don't know which model 3 this is, so gross could be anything between 25,200lbs. to 26,900lbs.

From the overview I looked at, I think the pilot didn't use enough right rudder to keep her straight. She drifted left, and I couldn't tell from the photos if the left prop was feathered. If it wasn't, she wouldn't climb.

Thanks Robert,
I had wondered if they got the stopped prop feathered.
Must be huge drag from that big paddle.
Pete
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/...a78b3a613f.jpg

Looks like the main gear that remain partially exposed even when retracted (mentioned recently in the Hudson Glider thread) did their job - the fuselage seems nice and high and not to have crinkled at all in these early shots (not to take anything away from the pilot's skill). :D

G AMPZ
 

A sorry sight.
Before Eastern Airways G-AMPZ was operated by Rig Air at Norwich who in turn became Air Anglia in 1970 and she was their first Dak. I flew sitting on her jump seat several times.

It ain't that good, I'm afraid....and yes,I've flown one a fair bit.
The DC-3 (or, if you prefer, C-47) is not a transport category airplane and does not have CAR4B required performance.
In addition, 5606 (type fluid) hydraulic pressure holds the gear retracted...no hydraulic pressure available, the landing gear free falls into the down (but not locked) position.
Performance in this case with one engine inop (even with prop feathered)...very poor.
Negative, one engine shut down just after takeoff ex-INW many years ago on a demo flight from INW-ABQ....very light pax load.
IF you had flown the type, you would know.:\

Not quite; hydraulic pressure raises the gear but once up, it's locked by moving the selector into neutral, thereby trapping fluid in the lines. As you know, sometimes periodic 'Up' selection is required to stop the gear from lowering slightly in flight due to leakage past the selector shear seals.
As long as the landing gear is correctly serviced (lubricated), once it free-falls, either airflow pressure or application of a little 'g' should get the downlock latches to engage into 'Spring Lock'. Or, assuming there are no open lines, the handpump will snick it in, once the line suction has dissipated after a short while. When jacked in the hangar, light hand pressure on the crossbrace after free-fall is enough to prove the system isn't mechanically tight.

It's difficult to get a story from those photographs but I wouldn't be optimistic about getting the aircraft back into the air.
G-AMPZ was an old friend of mine; very sad to see her like this. In perspective, no one was badly hurt, so 'she done good'.

I remember reading that article about a DC3 taking off on one engine; I'll try to find it. It was empty though.
Ah, here we go:
One engine 1000 meter take off submitted by:John Miller

Spring lock is fine, except, it is not then firmly locked down.
only the mechanical lever lock will ensure that the landing gear will not collapse upon landing.
A primary design feature, at the time.

Absolutely 100% correct.
The next in line, the DC-4, was a huge improvement, and not just because it has four engines.