OK. Is this what you want to hear?

Netjets have established with INAC that their pilots have no fixed base. Their base is wherever the aircraft happens to be at any particular time. No amount of positioning counts towards duty time despite the Portuguese equivelent of the ANO insisting that time out counts as 100% and time back at 50%. All one can assume is that the Netjets cheque book has been used unscrupulously.

All you wannabees out there. There is no such company as Netjets Europe. Pilots are employed at the convenience of Lisbon through various worthless holding companies located around the world.
Put simply, what redress do you have when your salary is reduced by 30% or you get fined for upholding standards or fired with no explanation. Many ex's are trying to establish jurrisdiction somewhere. Time will tell.

Does this sound like a dream job? Current "happy" pilots just haven't been shat on. (yet).

other possibilities
 

or demoted for an arbitrary period


anyone know of any more ?

This is Interesting, how everyone knows everything about NetJets, and still everyone's opinion is different :rolleyes: So who shall we believe :confused:

Kelly Hopper has got it about right.

Netjets Europe does not exist. Netjets Ltd is a front for the setup.

Pilots are employed through Cayman Islands or Isle of Man, both of which are just holding companies.

Before you join Netjets it's worth a call to BALPA. Just ask them how many times they have been asked to intervene in the Netjets circus. Unsuccessfully, due to the arrangements of the company.

Not sure where or how the Lisbon groundstaff are employed. I'm sure Mike Jenvey THINKS he knows the answer

question for our friends in Netjet US. Do they accept applications from non US citizens and do they also reject 10,000+ pilots as some say they do in Europe.Any info appreciated,especially from Aus pilots working there.

OK, so many conflicting views!

Simple question: Netjets job? Yes or No?

Cheers

I know pilots who have previously worked there, but have managed to escape, like one recently said. I also know pilots who still work there, and they both agree that the only reason they still are with NJE is that they haven't found anything else.
So, if you have nothing else, go for it, otherwise I wouldn't...

I meet Net Jet crews from the left side of the pond on just about a weekly basis. The two major threads running here are baffling to them. Other than the griping legally required to maintain a current licence they like the place, the equipment and most of the work practices.

The problem facing all the NJE cheerleaders here is their resolute refusal page after page after page to answer any question in a straight forward manner. This is actually a polite way of saying ducking, diving and consistently, pointedly and egregiously obscuring the truth.

Earlier this week I spoke face to face with a PPRuNer and asked for the most concise and brutal analysis of the issues being purposely obscured - the ones most important to those considering employment. The reason? PPRuNe is for the benefit of pilots and not companies.

The post by Kelly Hopper was the response I received. Note that the regular suspects have not refered to it, refuted a single word or rebutted any point whether historically or in terms of current arrangements. Digs and sneering are a semantic null - devoid of meaning and discounted totally here at the Towers.

The Air Luxor AOC and standard FTL's are a fact.

Generic Portugese FTL's are a fact.

The utterly err, unique NJE ummm, arrangement is a fact and a particularly interesting one in the light of the Crossair Jumbolina report. Something that would prove very interesting tested in employment, civil or criminal law. Something the legal section of the Portugese authorities should be looking at pretty sharpish to cover their own arses.

Let's sum it up. NJE got out of the FTL's required by all other AOC operators in extremely mysterious circumstances. Working for NJE is actually a contract job with no employment law comeback.

Any sane, experienced aviator would be a fool to take the blandishments offered by supposed Net Jet employees as anything other than rose tinted honeymoon whisperings or the ravings of the terminally ambitious.

We've had vast amounts of wasted bandwidth while the two most critical issues for pro's have been intentionally avoided time after time. FTL's and the contract.

Anyone caring to rebut that point will discover the joys of cut and paste thrown back in their face. They will aslo have counter the findings of the Swiss accident investigation insisting on culmulative timing including transport and other duties undertaken prior to flight.

Finally, we at the Towers have to make it utterly clear the NJE are facing contract disputes taken to law at a rate a magnitude greater than we have ever seen at any airline.

Caveat Emptor

Regards
Rob

PPRuNe Towers you are spot on and I await MJ's response with interest. Once the market picks up, as it appears to be doing now, I predict an awful lot more will do a runner. You get what you deserve in life and I think NJE are in for a shock; I also suspect they will be totally unhappy to release pilot turnover figures.

This thread has the potential to ignite into another "netjets has the best pilots" - Jammers where are you?

Have you left Netjets Europe ? Why ?
 

Did you leave in equitable circumstances ?

Don't know ?

Were you happy working for them ?

Did you have your salary reduced by 30 % ?

If you were fired, did you get any reason as to why ?

Flight time limitations are a matter of record.

No NJE employee has every given an answer on these limitations. Re read the threads if you have any doubts.

The Crossair report has made extremely clear the JAR/Europs views on cumulative hours.

The UK CAA has had the drafts for many months due to the aircraft type involved in the accident. New methods of auditing all hours of duty including travel and between companies are flying around the various authorities.

Balpa are running a database due to the numbers now involved in litigation.

Let's see those who actually believe any of their writing regarding improving things. Tell pilots reading these threads straight:

Who employs you - the legal, responsible and answerable entity detailed in your contract.

Until that question can be answered reliably anyone considering applying to NJE is gaining less employment protection than a contract pilot out in the third world.

Best pilots in the world or simply the dumbest??

The history of this site is littered with 10 page threads on employment at companies. The one's on the Britannia's, the Monarchs and many others die out in a couple of days. Have a look at the ones that go on and on and on for weeks and months. There are five at the moment and many more from the past.

8 years of running this place tells me this: Smoke + fire = 10 page plus topics.

FTL's as I said at the outset are a matter of public record. They and the contracts are the dirty little secret missing from all these months of enquiries.

It really makes you wonder at the hostility consistently bandied around at those that left the company. I strongly suggest those considering applying take an hour our so to reread every single word published in the last 6 months. Not one word has been edited and the lack of honesty from NJE employees is breathtaking.

I am disgusted at the attacks on pilots who have left NJE from employees who have spent a cumulative 14 pages avoiding answering any question on contracts or flight time limitations.

Regards to all
Rob

PS A private forum should be running out around Easter.

Mr. Michael Jenvey............Your BS has finally risen to the surface on the WORLD-WIDE WEB, through the charity PPRUNE affords us as respected professional pilots (without an obvious agenda). Your cut and paste tactics have been exposed for all to see, your continual avoidance of the question posed time and time again regarding the FTL limitations aspect of the job at NJE, flying under a CAA licence with a mickey mouse INAC validation are blatantly exposed, and I must thank you most sincerely for your unprofessional responses to this thread which have not only attracted the attention of Pprune moderaters but also BALPA, all countries operating under JAA OPS and in a matter of time your COO and FOM:O .............you continually hide behind the supposed confidentiality agreement with NJE, which incidentally only applies to the pax you carry and their scheduled T/O and Dep. times.......FTL's are a matter of public record ol' chap so do us all a favour and stop hiding behind the "my hands are tied behind my back excuse'........you should try restraining your tongue behing your back, but then again that would be quite impossible for a spineless individual..........distinct lack of icons on your last post.....bit pre-occupied are we MJ........I suggest you start practicing your profiled hobby of target-rifle shooting as I believe you and your lot are in the cross-hairs.....ex-RAF ex-HeavyLift and maybe ex-NJE....your hostility and selfrighteousness has now awakened a sleepy giant......

Mike (king of cut and paste) old chap. Regarding the quote of mine you posted sadly I was still in the honeymoon period then. As PPRuNe Towers has said you simply cannot hide that what NJE are doing with FTLs on day one is simply morally wrong and, in the end, potentially unsafe. Are you telling me that what is going on is acceptable? If the answer is no - what are you doing about it? If the answer is yes - why have you let your professional standards slip so low?

NJE has the potential to be a great company but you cannot defend the indefensible. Either take off the rose tinted spectacles or take off the blindfold.

Seems to me that after the 'Sermon on the Mount', by PP Towers the sinners have repented by remaining silent and have crawled under their respective rocks or back into their holes...... :) or after taking off their rose-tinted spectacles they can't find their PC's!!

Jammers;
You took the works right out of my mouth. Where are they now???

As the NJE lawyers had such a ball writing such a one sided employment contract, who would suppose that the owners/customers may have been stitched up in a comparable manner? Where do they seek redress when things go wrong or the company ceases ops and all those ££££££'s can't be made accountable? Are THEY aware that when NJE told them they operate to JAR OPS 1 standards they were refering to Portuguese JAR OPS 1 standards.

I am sure this dispicable company would not lose a moments' sleep when it all goes wrong, for DM and his cronnies in Lisbon will all be sitting on their wallets fat dumb and happy.

WAKE UP YOU LOT.

MJ you're just full of 'sticks and stones'......checked your 'NJE offshore holding company mickey mouse INAC third world company manual', I'm impressed you can read.....my vindictive comments you make mention to that were modified were simply your own words from your own web-site found at www.jenvey.cwc.net/...........clouding the facts again, and still no mention of FTL's........did PP Towers ever hit the nail on the head with you, mind you it's so big how could he miss
:ok: ........Thank you aswell Rob, be careful though and watch your back, he's only trying to get on your good-side now!!!

NJE is run under the portaria, with as JAR OPS permits some modification of it, if any of you took time and some money to Call INAC in portugal they would have received as I did the full regulation governing Netjets operations since it is a public information....sob.
I cannot tell if Netjets is bending those rules and i'm not a computer wiz to have those scanned and so on. however concerning Flight time limitations here they are ;)

this agreement is dated April,3rd 1998

It is based on Report hour and number of landings as a crew memeber on duty, two or pilot crew.

from 0700to 1359 1 or 2 landings Flight service max is 14 hours 9 or more landings flight service goes down 9 hours
from 1400 to 1559 flight service is 13hours30
1600-1759 Flight service 12h30
18-0359 Flight service is 12h00

for technical crew weekly Duty time 55 hours
monthly flight time 95 hours and duty time 190 hours
quaterly 285 hours Flight time Duty time 480 hours
Yearly 900 flight time 1800 duty time


I 'm not involved directly in this business, but I cannot be more than amazed to see so called pro, fishing around for what it seems to be a crucial information, not to be able to dig this out from the portuguese authorities as I did in a week time...

If I can get my hands on an Netjets contract I let you know, but in the mean time you can go out and ask may be or even better since the pilots seems to be not that good, you can try to submit an application and get there and have a contract with your name on like that you would have a pretty good idea about what is going on (shame I do not hold an ATPL licence :\ )

hang loose

employer
 

One more time then -

"Who employs you - the legal, responsible and answerable entity detailed in your contract."

or is that information confidential too ?

CL300
April 3, 1998......right up to date:rolleyes: you sure that isn't the date of your last medical......I notice you say you are not involved in the business that's probably why you made what seems like an attempt to answer the question, it being, WHEN DOES YOUR DUTY DAY START.......atfq..........by the way, the pro's aren't into third world contracts:ok:

'Let's sum it up. NJE got out of the FTL's required by all other AOC operators in extremely mysterious circumstances. Working for NJE is actually a contract job with no employment law comeback.'

Livinginspain

For UK pilots, the contract is in the Cayman Islands with NetJets Corporation.
For Non-UK pilots, the contract is in the Isle of Man with....
I hope that helps.