Gold Air
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goldair have just layed off pilots,ground staff and ops staff yet at the same time they announce the purchase of 5 new jets, the last time I saw this sitution was when a farnbough based company, the largest in the UK was in trouble, when goldair forced prices down to put it out of bussiness, they too announced the purchase of a lot of new jets, maybe to boost confidence, so who is targeting goldair and how much cash is left in the war chest?
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Maybe they have finally lost the plot and laid off all them that disagree with their sometime idiotic ways of thinking......hence the drive to recruit new staff 
Last edited by VIKING9; 28th Feb 2003 at 22:36.
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Strong words Viking9.
I see no need to censor anything but would use your post as an example of how easy it is to snipe at named individuals from a position of anonymity in attempt to rid one's self of what appears to be a rather large chip on one's shoulder. In the heat of the moment it may seem like a good idea but the end result (IMHO) leaves one looking like a cad.
Nuff said.
4HP
I see no need to censor anything but would use your post as an example of how easy it is to snipe at named individuals from a position of anonymity in attempt to rid one's self of what appears to be a rather large chip on one's shoulder. In the heat of the moment it may seem like a good idea but the end result (IMHO) leaves one looking like a cad.
Nuff said.
4HP
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4HolerPoler Believe me, I have no chip on my shoulder. Ask any ex employee and you will get the same reply. That said, I'll edit my previous entry slightly
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Thanks V9.
I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with them. Trust you'll find or have found that dream job. It took me twenty years - they're out there.
Best of luck.
I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with them. Trust you'll find or have found that dream job. It took me twenty years - they're out there.
Best of luck.
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I don't think it's correct to blame Gold for Chauffair's demise. Search elsewhere on this Forum and you will find many comments on the reasons there which were very much caused internally by one person...
Gold didn't force the industry's charter prices down simply by reducing their rates. There are a huge number of factors, largely based around fractional schemes, which have caused the majority of operators to "sharpen the pencil" but that doesn't mean that it's had a dramatic effect on other companies - I can genuinely not think of one company closed down by Gold's pricing policy.
Gold always maintained that they would keep a very young fleet, so to those of us with an interest in the sector it's not a surprise at all that they are ordering five replacement aircraft and this coincides with the two year anniversary of the delivery of their first Lear 45 (just about). As their MD quotes in this month's EBAN "We may let some of the other aircraft go". Plus this is also what Bombardier are telling everyone, though perhaps not in their official press release!
That said, if they can see a good business case for 10 Lears operating out of London - good on them, it's good for GA in general. If they can get a base at Northolt now to prevent its takeover by Netjets then we'll all be pleased!!
Gold didn't force the industry's charter prices down simply by reducing their rates. There are a huge number of factors, largely based around fractional schemes, which have caused the majority of operators to "sharpen the pencil" but that doesn't mean that it's had a dramatic effect on other companies - I can genuinely not think of one company closed down by Gold's pricing policy.
Gold always maintained that they would keep a very young fleet, so to those of us with an interest in the sector it's not a surprise at all that they are ordering five replacement aircraft and this coincides with the two year anniversary of the delivery of their first Lear 45 (just about). As their MD quotes in this month's EBAN "We may let some of the other aircraft go". Plus this is also what Bombardier are telling everyone, though perhaps not in their official press release!
That said, if they can see a good business case for 10 Lears operating out of London - good on them, it's good for GA in general. If they can get a base at Northolt now to prevent its takeover by Netjets then we'll all be pleased!!
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Goldair are surely a more financially sound company than CFR ever were, are they not?
As long as they don't waste too much on Birmingham City FC they should be OK!!
Seriously, the crews I work are always professional in and out of BIG.
Unfair to blame them for CFR's demise - as said I think that was created internally.
As long as they don't waste too much on Birmingham City FC they should be OK!!
Seriously, the crews I work are always professional in and out of BIG.
Unfair to blame them for CFR's demise - as said I think that was created internally.
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It is well known in the industry that gold targeted the farnborough company, agreed it had problems and in business competition generally provides the best operator, however when you price your product below cost over a long period its the company that has the biggest reserves that wins the day not best operator, it can be said the company with the accumulated reserves is also the the best operator, but gold had not accumulated such reserves over the time of their operation.
I have heard it said this is bullyboy techniques and in some industries would gain the intrest of competition authorities, I invite anybody with more specific knollege to comment.
I would also point to the facts, if gold is doing that well to order 5 new planes then why layoff so many of your staff, and why when one of those rare GA jobs become vacant more than 80% of gold pilots apply.
I have heard it said this is bullyboy techniques and in some industries would gain the intrest of competition authorities, I invite anybody with more specific knollege to comment.
I would also point to the facts, if gold is doing that well to order 5 new planes then why layoff so many of your staff, and why when one of those rare GA jobs become vacant more than 80% of gold pilots apply.
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Always seems to be somebody ready to snipe at any operator doing well. I have only fond memories of my time at Gold Air - I left to fly bigger aircraft as many do in GA.
Viking9 - you will be looking for that dream job for the rest of your working lift (IMHO). I would hazard a guess that you are the type of person who makes the workplace in which you exist as miserable as you can? Just looked back over your past posts - not a good record in the cheerful and positive department. You certainly seem to have a chip on your shoulder whatever you say. In my experience most good companies weed out the trouble makers quickly because they demoralise everyone else. Were you a trouble maker I wonder?
I have a contact in Gold Air managment so have put some of your questions over a beer and as far as I can make out Gold Air has a staff turnover of around 5% per annum - that is quite a good figure in any industry but would be exceptional in GA. It is less than that amongst crews and I do know that they have a waiting list on recruiting. Crews seem very happy with their lot and whenver I see them downline they are upbeat and chatty. Their pay seems fairly reasonable too - certainly quite comparable with Net Jets and they run a crew roster of 6 days on 3 days off plus equivalent of 6 weeks leave which I would be very happy with (no roster in my company). All get annual sim recurrent too with loss of licence insurance and private medical cover.
Asked a contact of mine about Cambridge - apparently they just moved the Cambridge office to Stansted and are basing aircraft at STN as well as Biggin and Farnborough. Also asked about recent redundancies - apparently they lost the contract for the Ordnance Survey flying to another operator on price and lost a Bravo they operated for a private owner to LEA and so had to make winter cutbacks - not that surprising really.
I do know that Gold Air owns all its Lear and Hawker aircraft and borrows commercially to fund them - although it is at very a cheap rate because the parent company (Ann Summers) is very strong. Daifly has a more balanced view if you ask me - if they are making money (and they are now in profit according to my source) then good luck to them. We certainly seem to lose a lot more quotes on price to other operators than Gold - Net Jets is the main problem along with some of the tired old C550'sbeing punted for peanuts. Seems that ever since European operators forced Net Jets into having a JAR Ops AOC they have been handing out cheap charters all over - that's where we find the problem is.
As for the order for new aircraft Daifly seems to have it right - and certainly there can never have been a better time to buy new aircraft. At the end of the day Gold Air has gone from start to UK number 1 in just a few years. Daifly's company have bitten the bullet and shifted up a gear if I've got your firm right - a greek letter? Perhaps that's the way ahead. R Gold really that much cheaper Daifly?
Perhaps we should all live and let live?
And finally, Viking9, I believe that you will find that happiness lies in a job well done and not necesaarily in the Indian Ocean. I have heard your line - "ask any previous employee" - so many times. As someone who who dealt with many staff in a previous life I can assure you that every firm has two types of ex employee - those that left voluntarily and went on to better or bigger things and those that left because they couldn't or wouldn't do their job properly. Which category do you fall into? I fall into the former and I found Gold Air fun and fullfilling in the days before they had Lears or rosters etc. So RCJ I reckon you could do worse than apply - good luck!
Viking9 - you will be looking for that dream job for the rest of your working lift (IMHO). I would hazard a guess that you are the type of person who makes the workplace in which you exist as miserable as you can? Just looked back over your past posts - not a good record in the cheerful and positive department. You certainly seem to have a chip on your shoulder whatever you say. In my experience most good companies weed out the trouble makers quickly because they demoralise everyone else. Were you a trouble maker I wonder?
I have a contact in Gold Air managment so have put some of your questions over a beer and as far as I can make out Gold Air has a staff turnover of around 5% per annum - that is quite a good figure in any industry but would be exceptional in GA. It is less than that amongst crews and I do know that they have a waiting list on recruiting. Crews seem very happy with their lot and whenver I see them downline they are upbeat and chatty. Their pay seems fairly reasonable too - certainly quite comparable with Net Jets and they run a crew roster of 6 days on 3 days off plus equivalent of 6 weeks leave which I would be very happy with (no roster in my company). All get annual sim recurrent too with loss of licence insurance and private medical cover.
Asked a contact of mine about Cambridge - apparently they just moved the Cambridge office to Stansted and are basing aircraft at STN as well as Biggin and Farnborough. Also asked about recent redundancies - apparently they lost the contract for the Ordnance Survey flying to another operator on price and lost a Bravo they operated for a private owner to LEA and so had to make winter cutbacks - not that surprising really.
I do know that Gold Air owns all its Lear and Hawker aircraft and borrows commercially to fund them - although it is at very a cheap rate because the parent company (Ann Summers) is very strong. Daifly has a more balanced view if you ask me - if they are making money (and they are now in profit according to my source) then good luck to them. We certainly seem to lose a lot more quotes on price to other operators than Gold - Net Jets is the main problem along with some of the tired old C550'sbeing punted for peanuts. Seems that ever since European operators forced Net Jets into having a JAR Ops AOC they have been handing out cheap charters all over - that's where we find the problem is.
As for the order for new aircraft Daifly seems to have it right - and certainly there can never have been a better time to buy new aircraft. At the end of the day Gold Air has gone from start to UK number 1 in just a few years. Daifly's company have bitten the bullet and shifted up a gear if I've got your firm right - a greek letter? Perhaps that's the way ahead. R Gold really that much cheaper Daifly?
Perhaps we should all live and let live?
And finally, Viking9, I believe that you will find that happiness lies in a job well done and not necesaarily in the Indian Ocean. I have heard your line - "ask any previous employee" - so many times. As someone who who dealt with many staff in a previous life I can assure you that every firm has two types of ex employee - those that left voluntarily and went on to better or bigger things and those that left because they couldn't or wouldn't do their job properly. Which category do you fall into? I fall into the former and I found Gold Air fun and fullfilling in the days before they had Lears or rosters etc. So RCJ I reckon you could do worse than apply - good luck!
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Antanov for what it's worth, I am happy doing what I'm doing now.
Why did ALL the Goldair Ops staff resign within 6 weeks back in 2001? Answer, because they felt bullied and unsupported. They followed their then Ops Manager & Head of Ops and all went on to do better things. Not a good sign if you ask me.
As for me being a trouble maker, I doubt that very much. In fact, ask at least 3 UK CAA Flt Ops Inspectors of their opinions of me and I think you would retract what you say about me. I am far from being a miserable person, quite the opposite actually. The industry has changed over the years and I think if your were honest with yourself, I'd say that you would agree with me and say that parts of the industry are becoming miserable. It's clearly not what it used to be.
So, until you know someone well enough to comment on them, keep your personal comments to yourself. IMHO, you know absolutely nothing about me because in fact I too fall into your 2nd category that you mention........Have a nice day
Why did ALL the Goldair Ops staff resign within 6 weeks back in 2001? Answer, because they felt bullied and unsupported. They followed their then Ops Manager & Head of Ops and all went on to do better things. Not a good sign if you ask me.
As for me being a trouble maker, I doubt that very much. In fact, ask at least 3 UK CAA Flt Ops Inspectors of their opinions of me and I think you would retract what you say about me. I am far from being a miserable person, quite the opposite actually. The industry has changed over the years and I think if your were honest with yourself, I'd say that you would agree with me and say that parts of the industry are becoming miserable. It's clearly not what it used to be.
So, until you know someone well enough to comment on them, keep your personal comments to yourself. IMHO, you know absolutely nothing about me because in fact I too fall into your 2nd category that you mention........Have a nice day
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Viking9 - I do know who you are and where you work. That's what I based my comments on. I was actually at Gold when the ops staff resigned. As I recall a rather twisted guy deliberately targeted the ops staff with jobs at STN? A bit more money and closer to home did it for some. 6 staff did not resign - some were redunded becuase at the time the comapny moved its ops department to Biggin Hill which resulted in a vast improvement! But if I got you in the wrong category then I apologise. All I was trying to dowas to point out that Gold Air is no diferrent to any other sensible company and gets rid of trouble makers. As I recall - now I think about it - you left in a fit of peak because the managment didn't like your ideas or your roll neck jumper?!
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You go Antanov!! Indeed it seems some people have chips on their shoulders otherwise why so much of an opinion? Nothing better to do I guess.
Gold Air is comparable to many GA operators, has its up and downs but is generally a good company to work for. And the answer to the original question, yes I think they are looking for crews, nuff said!
Gold Air is comparable to many GA operators, has its up and downs but is generally a good company to work for. And the answer to the original question, yes I think they are looking for crews, nuff said!
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Odd though being head hunted for a job then being told they don't like new ideas. Their loss, my gain. As for poaching staff, they left under their own free will and I know that none of them regret it.
You are quite right Antanov that Goldair are just the same as many other companies, but I'm afraid, they weren't for me. Strange though that even now they make staff redundant then recruit again immediately.........I wish them luck though, no hard feelings or sleep lost on my part.........
You are quite right Antanov that Goldair are just the same as many other companies, but I'm afraid, they weren't for me. Strange though that even now they make staff redundant then recruit again immediately.........I wish them luck though, no hard feelings or sleep lost on my part.........
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Viking9
Sometimes a face doesn't fit and yours obviously didn't. That's no bad reflection on you or on Gold Air - it's just a fact of life and the reason why all firms have a probationary period during which either the employer or the employee can decide they don't like each other. As I recall there weren't any tears shed for you by the staff - unsurprisingly as you were only there a few weeks. Surely you can't still be bitter about choosing to leave a company you didn't like. But it really does seem unfair to try to put other people off getting a good job becuase you didn't like it at Gold. Every company has a different crowd and some will fit in and others won't.
Anyway Gold seems to have gone from strength to strength and if they are underwritten by Flexjet hours as has been suggested then good luck to them - would any firm turn down work in this market? I don't think so. And as for people hating it so much just heard that two ex members of staff who left for "better jobs" two or three years ago have reapplied for jobs with Gold Air so they can't be that bad. Don't see why so many are keen to try to find fault with Gold Air finances - you might do better to look at your firms finances Viking9 - none too clever according to the grapevine!
Sometimes a face doesn't fit and yours obviously didn't. That's no bad reflection on you or on Gold Air - it's just a fact of life and the reason why all firms have a probationary period during which either the employer or the employee can decide they don't like each other. As I recall there weren't any tears shed for you by the staff - unsurprisingly as you were only there a few weeks. Surely you can't still be bitter about choosing to leave a company you didn't like. But it really does seem unfair to try to put other people off getting a good job becuase you didn't like it at Gold. Every company has a different crowd and some will fit in and others won't.
Anyway Gold seems to have gone from strength to strength and if they are underwritten by Flexjet hours as has been suggested then good luck to them - would any firm turn down work in this market? I don't think so. And as for people hating it so much just heard that two ex members of staff who left for "better jobs" two or three years ago have reapplied for jobs with Gold Air so they can't be that bad. Don't see why so many are keen to try to find fault with Gold Air finances - you might do better to look at your firms finances Viking9 - none too clever according to the grapevine!
Last edited by Antanov; 13th Mar 2003 at 11:55.
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antanov
what are you talking about? Actually, I don't care what you are talking about, because I am actually doing very well now that I'm self employed again and that's a fact. Life goes on, I'm pleased Goldair is doing well, and yes my face didn't fit. It's because of people like you it didn't fit and it's because of you that most of the Ops staff resigned when they did. And, like I care if 2 ex Ops staff have re-applied, they must be desperate for work. Good luck to them, you and Goldair. That's not meant as a sarcastic remark, I wish you all luck. Cheers Will, 
and thanks for confirming my theory.....
you might do better to look at your firms finances Viking9 - none too clever according to the grapevine!
and thanks for confirming my theory.....