Eco-activists coat private jet with yellow spray in Ibiza
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Exactly; we have to start somewhere, anywhere. And Aviation is one of many culprits; quite significant really. There’s no point doing the whataboutery - yes construction or shipping is very bad too. As we discovered in Uxbridge on ULEZ policy, people like the idea but don’t like the personal consequences for them. Fact is we all fly too much as it’s too cheap. Rail is much cleaner but too pricey. Govts need to act collectively outside political expediency or nothing will happen. And hot places (like Rhodes, Corfu, etc.) will just get crossed off people’s list.
How will nudging a pebble start an avalanche? How will sitting at a lunch counter or in a bus seat make a change in US civil rights? How could nailing a carpenter to a cross in the Middle East change European politics 2000 years later. This is the sort of time scale required to back civilization off the carbon cliff, the sooner started the better. It won't be started by us old guys who won't live to see the tragedy - it will be started by those who still have 60 to 80 years to suffer from what the last 100 years has done. They don't have money, political power, lobbyists. They do have spray paint. Be happy they are using that.
Where do you get the idea we all fly too much? How much is too much? For every frequent flyer there are hundreds, if not thousands who never set foot in an aircraft.
Almost everyone uses some form of surface transport, electricity generated from fossil fuels, gas to cook.
The pebbles are there in plain sight, not at 40,000 ft.
Flights per Capita
Almost everyone uses some form of surface transport, electricity generated from fossil fuels, gas to cook.
The pebbles are there in plain sight, not at 40,000 ft.
Flights per Capita
Where do you get the idea we all fly too much? How much is too much? For every frequent flyer there are hundreds, if not thousands who never set foot in an aircraft.
Almost everyone uses some form of surface transport, electricity generated from fossil fuels, gas to cook.
The pebbles are there in plain sight, not at 40,000 ft.
Flights per Capita
Almost everyone uses some form of surface transport, electricity generated from fossil fuels, gas to cook.
The pebbles are there in plain sight, not at 40,000 ft.
Flights per Capita
There is no alternative, to stopping.
Either humanity heeds the message from the youngsters with the spray paint, or mother nature will deliver ever more powerful messages of her own.
These eco warriors are targeting the wrong subject.
It's too late to stop, because nations like China, India, the USA, Brazil etc. will NOT cut their emissions to the point where it negatively affects their economical success. Forget it. Stop living on a dream cloud.
We have to learn how to deal with the consequences of global warming, whatever the reason is that it happens. (I also think that our emissions are causing it)
PS: a real big impact would be producing and consuming half the meat, as it is a huge factor in global emissions.
We have to learn how to deal with the consequences of global warming, whatever the reason is that it happens. (I also think that our emissions are causing it)
PS: a real big impact would be producing and consuming half the meat, as it is a huge factor in global emissions.
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It's not the wrong subject - it's one of many subjects. And aviation needs to play its part. The young are leading the way because they are losing their futures and watching greedy people living in multiple homes, and adding to their future woes, amongst other things.
Cutting back in many places is necessary because the climate is not going to cool in the lifetimes of the next 2-3 generations. Fewer births, less travel, more insulation, more wind/hydro/wave power - it all contributes to help stop the climate extremes getting worse. And everyone needs to suffer a bit of pain and inconvenience but why can't the super-wealthy who have so much, not be taxed further? They really can't spend it in their lifetimes, unless on superyachts and jets that make things worse. Do people really have an issue if oligarchs have to sell one of their 10 mansions, or reduce the jet fleet to help those who live at sea level avoid more flooding, that doesn't seem much of a sacrifice. Maybe if you still can't see it, have a chat to those coming back from Rhodes, or those who've had their holiday plans ruined by the extreme weather, those that had their homes swept away or burnt to a cinder.
If even 10% of the world becomes inhospitable if not uninhabitable, then the world will be over-run by mass migration that makes todays issue but a scratch.
Cutting back in many places is necessary because the climate is not going to cool in the lifetimes of the next 2-3 generations. Fewer births, less travel, more insulation, more wind/hydro/wave power - it all contributes to help stop the climate extremes getting worse. And everyone needs to suffer a bit of pain and inconvenience but why can't the super-wealthy who have so much, not be taxed further? They really can't spend it in their lifetimes, unless on superyachts and jets that make things worse. Do people really have an issue if oligarchs have to sell one of their 10 mansions, or reduce the jet fleet to help those who live at sea level avoid more flooding, that doesn't seem much of a sacrifice. Maybe if you still can't see it, have a chat to those coming back from Rhodes, or those who've had their holiday plans ruined by the extreme weather, those that had their homes swept away or burnt to a cinder.
If even 10% of the world becomes inhospitable if not uninhabitable, then the world will be over-run by mass migration that makes todays issue but a scratch.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/b...haft-1.5751359
EDIT: Just looked at some other articles and offences such as Nötigung (coercion ) are now being charged.: there are degrees of this offence: the lower one is a monetary fine and/or up to three years imprisonment, higher one is minimum six months/max five years. My impression is - as in UK with the QE bridge protestors - the authorities are no longer treating this as a temporary phenomenon and are looking to make examples and keep the streets clear. I do recall reading about one of these groups in the UK that they classsified their members in three categories. 1) Background support and logistics only 2) Protesting but nothing risking arrest 3) Anything non-violent, accepting risk of arrest and prison. This was, naturally, a pyramid with a wide base and dramatic drop-off on levels two and three.
Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 24th Jul 2023 at 12:07.
It's too late to stop, because nations like China, India, the USA, Brazil etc. will NOT cut their emissions to the point where it negatively affects their economical success. Forget it. Stop living on a dream cloud.
We have to learn how to deal with the consequences of global warming, whatever the reason is that it happens. (I also think that our emissions are causing it)
PS: a real big impact would be producing and consuming half the meat, as it is a huge factor in global emissions.
We have to learn how to deal with the consequences of global warming, whatever the reason is that it happens. (I also think that our emissions are causing it)
PS: a real big impact would be producing and consuming half the meat, as it is a huge factor in global emissions.
I'm not personally minded to protest in this manner, but given their aims it is hard to think of a better target than the one they picked, for a protest of this nature.
It certainly seems as if the last 35-years of mild criticism haven't been enough to get humans' collective attention in a sufficient manner. And mother nature appears to have run out of lag terms in the system, such that things may well speed up a bit more.
As a result of past inaction it does seem likely that we will collectively have to stop as well as deal with the consequences. It is no longer an either/or, instead it seems to be a both/and. My own predicted lifespan is consistent with me seeing what 2.2C rise might do to the world around us. Unless the heat reduces that lifespan of course (or something else).
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/Docume...2023.07.05.pdf
Lots of people here are refusing to taking part in bringing down our economy just so the world saves a few percent of CO2, while other huge nations do next to nothing, because they prefer to employ and feed their people first. Why should we lower our standards while the rest of the world does zilch? It has to be done by everyone our by none.
Lots of people here are refusing to taking part in bringing down our economy just so the world saves a few percent of CO2, while other huge nations do next to nothing, because they prefer to employ and feed their people first. Why should we lower our standards while the rest of the world does zilch? It has to be done by everyone our by none.
Dare I ask which global income decile are you in ?
Source : https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the...n-the-bottom-1
As to the matter of others doing their bit, the Chinese are a long ways ahead of the UK, Germany, and USA when it comes to installing wind and solar, and manufacturing it for that matter. Definitely not in the "next-to-nothing" category. India and Brazil are also climbing the ranking very quickly, definitely not in the "zilch" category either. The local manufacturing seems to be giving quite a lot of employment, at least it seems that way when I've visited factories in those countries.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...wer-by-country
https://www.solarguide.co.uk/top-10-...-solar-power#/
The misery is also getting closer, now also in USA and Europe.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ts-attribution
The young will "sell out" when they get the taste for "success" & "wealth". They will in turn be replaced by a new naive set of idealists, the cycle of humanity repeats...
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Maybe not, if the Maldives is underwater and the Med is too hot for 2 months every summer, From my observation of the young, they are much smarter and can see the real risk in front of them that's going to hit their generation a lot harder than ours. Mass migration on a scale that makes todays issue tiny, will be their everyday issue.
It's not the wrong subject - it's one of many subjects. And aviation needs to play its part. The young are leading the way because they are losing their futures and watching greedy people living in multiple homes, and adding to their future woes, amongst other things.
Cutting back in many places is necessary because the climate is not going to cool in the lifetimes of the next 2-3 generations. Fewer births, less travel, more insulation, more wind/hydro/wave power - it all contributes to help stop the climate extremes getting worse. And everyone needs to suffer a bit of pain and inconvenience but why can't the super-wealthy who have so much, not be taxed further? They really can't spend it in their lifetimes, unless on superyachts and jets that make things worse. Do people really have an issue if oligarchs have to sell one of their 10 mansions, or reduce the jet fleet to help those who live at sea level avoid more flooding, that doesn't seem much of a sacrifice. Maybe if you still can't see it, have a chat to those coming back from Rhodes, or those who've had their holiday plans ruined by the extreme weather, those that had their homes swept away or burnt to a cinder.
If even 10% of the world becomes inhospitable if not uninhabitable, then the world will be over-run by mass migration that makes todays issue but a scratch.
Cutting back in many places is necessary because the climate is not going to cool in the lifetimes of the next 2-3 generations. Fewer births, less travel, more insulation, more wind/hydro/wave power - it all contributes to help stop the climate extremes getting worse. And everyone needs to suffer a bit of pain and inconvenience but why can't the super-wealthy who have so much, not be taxed further? They really can't spend it in their lifetimes, unless on superyachts and jets that make things worse. Do people really have an issue if oligarchs have to sell one of their 10 mansions, or reduce the jet fleet to help those who live at sea level avoid more flooding, that doesn't seem much of a sacrifice. Maybe if you still can't see it, have a chat to those coming back from Rhodes, or those who've had their holiday plans ruined by the extreme weather, those that had their homes swept away or burnt to a cinder.
If even 10% of the world becomes inhospitable if not uninhabitable, then the world will be over-run by mass migration that makes todays issue but a scratch.
Aviation contributes a total of about 3%-4% of GLOBAL CO2.
Stoping a few biz jets operating will achieve nothing!
Fiddling while Rome burns.
Cutting emissions from power generation and surface transport by half will achieve real results.
Grounding half the global fleet of aircraft will do bu88er all!
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HOVIS,
you try to talk religious people into atheism. I has NOTHING to do with "saving the planet", it is PURELY about power. The people that argue against business aviation are the high priests - in their mind.
"The young are much smarter" - yeah, exactly, their solution is: no more this, no more that. But I want my cellphone and full life work balance etcetc. Like the 2 "activists" that blockaded in downtown Stuttgart and then need a vacation in Thailand, which they of course did using airlines. The Ecoterrorists managed to excuse that as a "private activity" which has to be separated from their "activism"... one could not make this **** up.
you try to talk religious people into atheism. I has NOTHING to do with "saving the planet", it is PURELY about power. The people that argue against business aviation are the high priests - in their mind.
"The young are much smarter" - yeah, exactly, their solution is: no more this, no more that. But I want my cellphone and full life work balance etcetc. Like the 2 "activists" that blockaded in downtown Stuttgart and then need a vacation in Thailand, which they of course did using airlines. The Ecoterrorists managed to excuse that as a "private activity" which has to be separated from their "activism"... one could not make this **** up.
Everyone forgets about infrastructures, and aviation needs minimal infrastructures to operate. Cars and lorries, on the other hand are useless without a massive infrastructure in place.
Cutting back in many places is necessary because the climate is not going to cool in the lifetimes of the next 2-3 generations. Fewer births, less travel, more insulation, more wind/hydro/wave power - it all contributes to help stop the climate extremes getting worse. And everyone needs to suffer a bit of pain and inconvenience but why can't the super-wealthy who have so much, not be taxed further? They really can't spend it in their lifetimes, unless on superyachts and jets that make things worse. Do people really have an issue if oligarchs have to sell one of their 10 mansions, or reduce the jet fleet to help those who live at sea level avoid more flooding, that doesn't seem much of a sacrifice. Maybe if you still can't see it, have a chat to those coming back from Rhodes, or those who've had their holiday plans ruined by the extreme weather, those that had their homes swept away or burnt to a cinder.
If even 10% of the world becomes inhospitable if not uninhabitable, then the world will be over-run by mass migration that makes todays issue but a scratch.
If even 10% of the world becomes inhospitable if not uninhabitable, then the world will be over-run by mass migration that makes todays issue but a scratch.
This is getting political.
All this "panic mode" people are in is a professional psychologic strategy to get the public to do things that some super rich donors and campaign masterminds in the dark want to happen. This is one of the environmentalist panic chief advisors partly funded by Aileen Getty from the oil dynasty. Look for Dr. Klein's white papers how to bring people to whatever she wants. This is not how democracy should work and how "majorities" should be manipulated including by new internet campaigns and "information bubbles". This is propaganda in the name of a hidden few. Supported by some info industry looking for clicks, advertisements and relevance.
Any meaningful change for a cleaner environment must not be done in activist campaign "panic" mode but on the very long run by trial and error. People must be convinced not tricked into wanting things or being forced anyway. And it has to include all countries especially the very biggest China and India and the big pollution by industry, heating or cooling. It's time to go back to business and improve technology step by step. I wonder what is behind this don't ask but move approach of today: People owning cobalt mines, big energy groups fighting back the Fukushima nuclear energy shock, electrical power providers looking for more revenue? Some intended strategic pivot away from Middle Eastern oil?
Any meaningful change for a cleaner environment must not be done in activist campaign "panic" mode but on the very long run by trial and error. People must be convinced not tricked into wanting things or being forced anyway. And it has to include all countries especially the very biggest China and India and the big pollution by industry, heating or cooling. It's time to go back to business and improve technology step by step. I wonder what is behind this don't ask but move approach of today: People owning cobalt mines, big energy groups fighting back the Fukushima nuclear energy shock, electrical power providers looking for more revenue? Some intended strategic pivot away from Middle Eastern oil?
- The oil & gas industry (refined fuel does not just magic its way to the runway ,nor the tires, the hydraulic hoses, the plastics);
- The steel & aluminium & other metals industries (not just for the transportation itself, but also for the runways, roads, pipelines, terminal buildings, tank farms);
- The education, training, and science industries (the people don't just arrive literate and trained with all the prerequisite knowledge);
- ...... electrical & electronics & communications .... etc .....
Disentangling any one industry from another in a modern industrial economy is almost impossible and irrelevant. Instead the task that is being undertaken is to transform all of them in parallel. Clearly there are quite a few vested interests who are anxious to preserve their place on the top of the flaming dung pile.
As is obvious here.
Tangentially linked to this topic. On July 13th Letzte Generation ( Last generation ) blockaded Hamburg and Düsseldorf airports causing 48 flights - mostly holiday makers - to be cancelled. Eurowings - as well as all affected airlines in the Lufthansa Group (Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines ) are launching legal action for financial damages which are reckoned to be in the millions of Euros.
https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/s...200530222.html
https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/s...200530222.html
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All this "panic mode" people are in is a professional psychologic strategy to get the public to do things that some super rich donors and campaign masterminds in the dark want to happen.
Any meaningful change for a cleaner environment must not be done in activist campaign "panic" mode but on the very long run by trial and error. People must be convinced not tricked into wanting things or being forced anyway.
Any meaningful change for a cleaner environment must not be done in activist campaign "panic" mode but on the very long run by trial and error. People must be convinced not tricked into wanting things or being forced anyway.
Listening to a family who farmed olives in Portugal, discovering that their house, farm and near neighbours were 100% surrounded by fires with no escape, and had to literally fight and win over the fire to survive...
I guess they might say it was well time to panic. Oh and that wasn't last week, that was back in 2017. A very large number of the farmers and locals who live off the land in Greece, Italy, Spain, and Southern France, after last week, might well say that the panic word was also totally appropriate now. And I suspect that the Brits-on-holiday won't be rushing to rebook Rhodes and Corfu next year either.
The sad loss of pilots on the Canadair water bomber brings the problem straight home to the aviation community. Don't think crashes like this aren't going to happen every summer. Yes you are 100% right to blame Construction, O&G, Pharma, Shipping, Automotive, Retail, etc. for the problems as much as/more/less than Aviation, but that doesn't make the problem go away, and as we all live on one planet (that takes but 12hr to fly across) we are all in this together; if we don't all act now, it will get worse, and we will not only suffer extreme weather incidents, but as large chunks of equatorial areas become uninhabitable those populations will move out to be tomorrow's refugees; it won't be a million or 2, it will be much much more. "Small boats" will become commandeered "large ships". Rwandan solutions don't scratch the surface.