Should i buy Citation Bravo in 2021
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Asking random strangers on some internet forum about purchasing a corporate jet is not the best way to approach this, you need to be working with a professional, and if nothing else conduct a very thorough prebuy. That same professional can also help you with finding the pilots needed to fly the thing.
Good Luck and Happy New Year
Good Luck and Happy New Year
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Nope - look for a good Citation II - the Bravo's are a lot more intensive on maintenance.... focus on who can support the aircraft locally and how good their spares holding is and speed of logistics for rotables currently....
Just look at which avionics are fitted. If it is original avionics it is possible that the vertical gyros are not made anymore and you will only be able to get reconditioned ones that may not be so robust. Also the Primus 1000 screens may not be RNP1 compliant and this might be why other aircraft fitted with Primus 1000 such the XLS was upgraded to Primus 2000 and the LR45 upgraded with garmin to the LR75. Even with the FMS compliant is it still means the aircraft may not be RNP1 compliant as there are many parts of the system which have to be compliant. A Bravo with upgraded avionics would be a nice aeroplane.
MM
MM
Last edited by Miles Magister; 1st Jan 2022 at 15:43.
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Hello°
This asking price (which may or may not be negotiable - right now there is a serious shortage of good deals for pre-owned aircraft on the market) is about the value of the half-time engines. So I would consider it a good deal, you basically get the aircraft around those engines for free...
Sooner or later you may have to replace the CRT screens with modern ones, but Honeywell has developed "drop-in" replacements (with STCs already available under FAA and EASA) which can either be done one at a time or all three together. Just look at the Honewell website for more details.
Regarding ADS-B out compliance (when that becomes mandatory in your part of the world) and RNP-1 capability, as already written above, a modern FMS will probably need to be installed as well sometime soon. All together these avionics upgrades can cost you another half million dollars depending on where in the world you are and how much paperwork is required.
I have flown on Bravos and an Encore for the last (almost) 15 years and think that it is a reliable and trustworthy airframe as well as the engines. There is the occasional fault or glitch (generators, landing gear malfunctions - mostly caused by faulty microswitches or wires, CRT screens failing, (but we had an LCD screen of the FMS broken, so LCD does not have an endless life either), severed antenna connections) but they are mostly rather generic ones which we also see in other aircraft, even much younger ones, as well. Further above someone wrote that a Citation II is more reliable, but I have my serious doubts about that. Maybe it was so in it's time but a Citation II will be 10 years older than this Bravo and I can't really imagine how this can improve reliability. Also there is a significant difference in payload and gereral performance between the two.
One major factor may be avaiablility of maintenance, spares and crew (!) for this aircraft in India. Better check that out beforehand. Some time ago we flew a business man from India who operates his own Bravo there. He was desperately looking for pilots and tried to hire us on the spot. He told us that he had to get a crew from the U.S. flown to India for almost every flight he intended to do, thereby getting very low usage for his plane.
Sooner or later you may have to replace the CRT screens with modern ones, but Honeywell has developed "drop-in" replacements (with STCs already available under FAA and EASA) which can either be done one at a time or all three together. Just look at the Honewell website for more details.
Regarding ADS-B out compliance (when that becomes mandatory in your part of the world) and RNP-1 capability, as already written above, a modern FMS will probably need to be installed as well sometime soon. All together these avionics upgrades can cost you another half million dollars depending on where in the world you are and how much paperwork is required.
I have flown on Bravos and an Encore for the last (almost) 15 years and think that it is a reliable and trustworthy airframe as well as the engines. There is the occasional fault or glitch (generators, landing gear malfunctions - mostly caused by faulty microswitches or wires, CRT screens failing, (but we had an LCD screen of the FMS broken, so LCD does not have an endless life either), severed antenna connections) but they are mostly rather generic ones which we also see in other aircraft, even much younger ones, as well. Further above someone wrote that a Citation II is more reliable, but I have my serious doubts about that. Maybe it was so in it's time but a Citation II will be 10 years older than this Bravo and I can't really imagine how this can improve reliability. Also there is a significant difference in payload and gereral performance between the two.
One major factor may be avaiablility of maintenance, spares and crew (!) for this aircraft in India. Better check that out beforehand. Some time ago we flew a business man from India who operates his own Bravo there. He was desperately looking for pilots and tried to hire us on the spot. He told us that he had to get a crew from the U.S. flown to India for almost every flight he intended to do, thereby getting very low usage for his plane.
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Thread Starter
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Hi, Yes i am new at this platform but having 12 year experience in general aviation. I am already having 04 aircrafts in my fleet. I dont have any idea about Bravo thats why posted here.
I think every post should be replied if you have something to share. May be because of the your opinion we can get the best solution for our need.
I hope you can understand my words.
Happy day!!
Happy New Year!!
I think every post should be replied if you have something to share. May be because of the your opinion we can get the best solution for our need.
I hope you can understand my words.
Happy day!!
Happy New Year!!
Hi, Yes i am new at this platform but having 12 year experience in general aviation. I am already having 04 aircrafts in my fleet. I dont have any idea about Bravo thats why posted here.
I think every post should be replied if you have something to share. May be because of the your opinion we can get the best solution for our need.
I hope you can understand my words.
Happy day!!
Happy New Year!!
I think every post should be replied if you have something to share. May be because of the your opinion we can get the best solution for our need.
I hope you can understand my words.
Happy day!!
Happy New Year!!
You wouldn’t get medical advice here now would you?
"You wouldn’t get medical advice here now would you?"
No, not on an aviation forum that's for sure!
No, not on an aviation forum that's for sure!
Ok, seriously now: Of course it's fine to ask for advice regarding an aircraft purchase on an aviation Forum. However, it would be unwise to base a purchae decision solely on advice received from anonymous forum members. And, most importantly: If you want good advice you need to ask a good question. Yours was a very poorly asked questions. I'm sure you would have received better advice had you told us much more about the aircraft in question as well as your specific requirements.
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Ok, seriously now: Of course it's fine to ask for advice regarding an aircraft purchase on an aviation Forum. However, it would be unwise to base a purchae decision solely on advice received from anonymous forum members. And, most importantly: If you want good advice you need to ask a good question. Yours was a very poorly asked questions. I'm sure you would have received better advice had you told us much more about the aircraft in question as well as your specific requirements.
Current Airframe Hrs: 2568.08, Total Landings: 1745.
Engine: 2568.08 Hrs, Cycles: 1745. Engine Model No: PWC 530A.
Enrolled in ESP GOLD Reserve Program. Enrollment date: 01 April 2016 and currently valid. Both Engines were enrolled at 1479 Hrs with P&W.
Avionics List / Model Nos of the Units:-
Avionics System Primus 1000,
Auto Pilot - IC 600, EFIS - Primus 1000, VHF Com - KY 196B, XPNDR - MST 67A,
ADF - KR 87, DME - DME 4000, FMS - UNS-1L, GPS - UNS-1L,
HF COM - KHF 950, RADAR - Color Radar, Weather Radar (WU 660), RAD ALT - AA-300, LR NAV - KN 53 - 03, CVR - FA2100,
ELT - C 406-2, TCAS I, TPU 67A - 01, TCAS II, TPU 67.
The aircraft is equipped with SSFDR.
Now please advise.
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I would also suggest you get a qualified licensed engineer to inspect it and the paperwork, a small investment can save you a fortune in unforeseen expensive bills lurking just down the road.
My personal opinion is that the Bravo is a good aircraft for what it is but it is my opinion that the Primus 1000 is not, nor never can be, RNP 1 compliant despite whatever FMS you fit. The reason being that certain information has to be displayed on the screens within +/-15 deg directly in front of the pilot and when I last checked, some time ago, the display drivers could not display the required information. Examples, from memory, being RNP1 holds, radius to fix arcs and some cross track errors. Also it may be that the total system can not fly those procedures, but get an educated person to check. This is not an engineering task, it is an operations task. As I mentioned above I think this is why some types were fitted with upgraded avionics when RNP1 became a requirement. Just consider it in your decision making and if you are content to operate RNP5 only then it could be a nice aircraft it it otherwise suits your needs. Just because the FMS is compliant does not mean the aircraft is, there are several different elements to RNP1 compliance and there are many articles published echoing my thoughts.
MM
MM
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It's not a bad price, retail value is currently around $1.4 - $1.5m which is an increase of around $250k over the last quarter but as mentioned by others, don't do anything without a proper pre-buy.