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Netjets Europe fires 25% of pilots

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Netjets Europe fires 25% of pilots

Old 26th Apr 2020, 13:43
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Europe
Posts: 8
Of course there are good deals to be had right now, the price of business jets is rock bottom like any other asset. For the same reason a terrible time to sell Falcons.

From asianaviation.com - covid-19-business-aviation-tries-to-weather-the-storm

"As for deliveries, Dolski says some OEMs are halting production or slowing down completions and that could have an impact on deliveries. But, he added, “with the limited and constantly changing number of places to fly, a number of new owners are not concerned with delaying acceptance of their aircraft and in fact would prefer delaying the outflow of funds toward an asset that they cannot utilise for the intended purpose. Preowned aircraft prices are dropping so it is a good time to buy. This being said, non-distressed sellers are pulling their aircraft off market until the market bottoms out. Some high-net-worth individuals whose personal finances have been negatively impacted by the COVID impact will try and see if they can exercise an out clause in their aircraft purchase agreement after a force majeure period has passed in order not to take delivery of their aircraft.”
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 13:51
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! View Post
I am just a stupid pilot, we pay our managers a lot of money to do this kind of stuff, to have a vision, a strategy. Not to just panic and cut costs the easiest way, while there are better ways to achieve almost the same.

And of course, RIGHT NOW there are not so many good deals yet, but sooner or later manufacturers will be more willing to offer good deals that would make a good investment into the future. It's like with regular shares, buy low, sell high, don't stay behind the power curve.
And exactly thats the question. We know from every crisis before that it CAN be a chance as well!
The thing is, NetJets either doesn't see chances in future or it is just panicking...
The fact that Berkshire Heathaway does not fund NetJets anymore is a bit worrying because if they want they can easily effort it. Berkshire Heathaway got a CASH! ammount of 128 BILLION dollar. So either both are not expecting any chances here. For whatever reason. Or it is as eatmyshorts said, NetJets is just panicking because they lost their funding.
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 14:16
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TheHack View Post
And exactly thats the question. We know from every crisis before that it CAN be a chance as well!
The thing is, NetJets either doesn't see chances in future or it is just panicking...
The fact that Berkshire Heathaway does not fund NetJets anymore is a bit worrying because if they want they can easily effort it. Berkshire Heathaway got a CASH! ammount of 128 BILLION dollar. So either both are not expecting any chances here. For whatever reason. Or it is as eatmyshorts said, NetJets is just panicking because they lost their funding.
Apart from their Insurance businesses, all BH companies have been told to expect no cash injections.
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 14:21
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Appalling behaviour by NetJets Europe management. There were at least 3 alternatives to redundancies - ask Berkshire Hathaway for money, borrow money (their debt used to be USD 1.9bn at its peak, now it is zero) and seek state aid like everyone else. They refused to do any. Then they reneged on a deal with the union and offered a disgustingly low redundancy package - based on UK statutory minimum, which is nothing, Surely time to escalate this to Berkshire Hathaway or the press ?
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 14:46
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JHansell View Post
Appalling behaviour by NetJets Europe management. There were at least 3 alternatives to redundancies - ask Berkshire Hathaway for money, borrow money (their debt used to be USD 1.9bn at its peak, now it is zero) and seek state aid like everyone else. They refused to do any. Then they reneged on a deal with the union and offered a disgustingly low redundancy package - based on UK statutory minimum, which is nothing, Surely time to escalate this to Berkshire Hathaway or the press ?
Sure, off to the press with this! Disgusting behavor of the "Worlds biggest and best" Bizjet operator then... pretty sure its worth a story!
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 15:21
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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The only issue with this would be that this would scare current and potential customers away from the company = lower or no chances to be re-hired after the storm. As angry as many are, we should keep cool.
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 16:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! View Post
The only issue with this would be that this would scare current and potential customers away from the company = lower or no chances to be re-hired after the storm. As angry as many are, we should keep cool.
And let them get away with it again and again ??? Is it worth to be rehired by such an unethical company ? Anyway a complaint to Berkshire Hathaway would not be seen by customers. By the way I believe they already wrote to customers telling them about the redundancies anyway.
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 16:57
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! View Post
The only issue with this would be that this would scare current and potential customers away from the company = lower or no chances to be re-hired after the storm. As angry as many are, we should keep cool.
I know... i wouldn't do it either...
But things like this will sooner or later be picked up by the media anyways. It's NetJets, huge and market leader and every compeditor is interested what they are doing.
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 17:47
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Do you guys really think that NetJets Owners do give a damn ?
These guys mostly run businesses as well & find themselves in similar situations now.
Fair, unfair, unfortunate ! That does not matter in the end !
its a business and not charity.

If Buffett keeps its pockets closed, the reason probably is that he soon wants to shop around a little as opportunities arise left and right.
NJ is, as it always was, backed by Berkshire Hathaway.

For NJ customers it is and always was a safe bet, NJ will never let their customers down ever !!!
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 17:57
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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If all the Falcons are going, how do they deal with the owners who bought shares in a Falcon 2000?
A Challenger 350 is not quite the same while a Global is much bigger
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 18:30
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Upgrades to Global at the price of the Falcon. Good move, real cost-savings
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 20:17
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
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Apparently they did not sell Falcon shares for quite a while already (according to their website).

so customer base on this AC type rather low.

Falcon is extremely expensive, age & maintenance
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 00:39
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I'm afraid that some of the quotes on here prove beyond doubt that some Posters know Jack about this business.

Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt.

......edited for Grammar Fascists.

Last edited by LGW Vulture; 27th Apr 2020 at 06:17.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 07:33
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LGW Vulture View Post
I'm afraid that some of the quotes on here prove beyond doubt that some Posters know Jack about this business.

Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt.

......edited for Grammar Fascists.
So, share your knowledge with others. Maybe others have different experience in the business than you got.
Just quoting something that states "you guys have no clue" doesn't help...
I know thats how forums work sometimes but just stating "you are fools" without any fact to supports your statement is just trolling around.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 08:49
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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......edited for Grammar Fascists.
What about the capital letters here ? Is that correct spelling ?
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 09:52
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Europe
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Originally Posted by Delta12 View Post
Do you guys really think that NetJets Owners do give a damn ?
These guys mostly run businesses as well & find themselves in similar situations now.
Fair, unfair, unfortunate ! That does not matter in the end !
its a business and not charity.

If Buffett keeps its pockets closed, the reason probably is that he soon wants to shop around a little as opportunities arise left and right.
NJ is, as it always was, backed by Berkshire Hathaway.

For NJ customers it is and always was a safe bet, NJ will never let their customers down ever !!!
I don't think Owners like the constant instability. What does that do to customer service ? I believe many Owners have complained over the years to senior management about this. Also Buffett had to intervene in 2015 due to the potential (and actual) reputational impact with Owners.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 09:54
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Originally Posted by Oh gaim View Post
Apart from their Insurance businesses, all BH companies have been told to expect no cash injections.
Yeah that's what management says.... how convenient.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 13:48
  #38 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: EUROPE
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They treated the employees exceptionally unfair the way they did in recent years with lay offs for no obvious reasons and completely ignoring any agreements made with a totally useless union.
The way you treat your employees is also the way they treat the owners. It’s the companies mentality.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 14:25
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 40
What's the point in a seniority system, whereby for example a Challenger rated Captain must join as a Citation/Phenom FO, when during a crisis they sack one fleet regardless of seniority?
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 16:34
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utopia
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I feel sorry for the NJE crew (and others) falling victim to the apparently proposed layoffs. Hopefully there will be jobs to be had at some point not too far away and hopefully some clients will come out stronger than before and elect to have their own jet with a decent management company and not sharing it with other people. It's not bad having to deal with only one client and not different ones all the time. Best of luck to you all.
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