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Another question for PBN

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Old 21st Apr 2018, 06:15
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chr
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Another question for PBN

Hello

The deadline for EU is 25 of Aug. this year and question is what if I do not have licence endorsement until that time ?
If I declare non RNAV at the flight plan is it ok to go ? or that requirement is only linked to RNAV approaches ?
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Old 21st Apr 2018, 10:25
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https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33...ice2017034.pdf

2 Scope

2.1 The new PBN regulations will require:

• That from 25 August 2018 pilots may only fly in accordance with PBN routes and procedures after they have been granted PBN privileges as an endorsement to their Instrument Rating (IR)

• All pilots with an IR or Enroute Instrument Rating (EIR) will need to have PBN privileges after the 25 August 2020.
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Old 21st Apr 2018, 16:01
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Red face

Originally Posted by tommoutrie
marvellous.. well thats not what CAE said to me a week ago on my recurrent..
May I ask you at which CAE centre did you do your recurrent last week?
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 15:26
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Its an online course how big of a deal is it not to just do it?
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 18:08
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Originally Posted by noneya
Its an online course how big of a deal is it not to just do it?
Since now not just an online course, but endorsemet to IR. So rating for example would be SpaceShuttle/IR/PBN.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 20:26
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That's when the CAA issue it, the TRE for revalidation has to write /PBN to show that he has tested you to keep it valid.
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 09:02
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Im not really up to date with all this to be honest as I dont fly under my EASA licence at present and haven't done for a while. Although I do keep my TR current on it. I remember when I did my Recurrent in FSI in Feb, the examiner wrote a statement on the check ride form saying something like 'he had completed approaches/PBN etc' (really cant remember what the exact statement was) Has anyone else had that? I asked am I good to go on PBN etc, he said yes. To be honest, it was all new to me as I've been out of europe.
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 09:15
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphad
Good to know.

At the current rate of additions we are going to need to go back to the old school bigger paper licenses again to fit em all in..
Don’t worry, you lose the LV bit when they stick the PBN on.
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 13:22
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You actually get both. I have in the renewal endorsement section of my license: TYPE/IR/LV/PBN
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 16:07
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Originally Posted by dirk85
You actually get both. I have in the renewal endorsement section of my license: TYPE/IR/LV/PBN
As of a few weeks ago the UK CAA issued a notice to say that there is no further requirement to put the "LV" on the licence and that the onus will be on the operator to prove LV training if necessary. So future licence endorsements will simply be "TYPE**/IR/PBN"

Source: CAE UK
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 20:58
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Good to know.

Must be very new, or my examiner not up to date, because I did my renewal mid March and it was as I wrote, on my UK license.
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 22:05
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I've got /IR/LV/PBN as well. I guess they can still put /LV even if it's not mandatory. It makes sense to have it in case you get ramp checked in fog..
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Old 25th Apr 2018, 17:39
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Originally Posted by dirk85
Good to know.

Must be very new, or my examiner not up to date, because I did my renewal mid March and it was as I wrote, on my UK license.
The notice was issued 15th March, effective 15th March. Nothing like a bit of advance warning.

But like a lot of things, there was never any requirement for /LV to be on your licence, it was just the CAA complicating things. It has always been an operator requirement. Similarly, the regulation about PBN specifically states that it is a logbook endorsement. The CAA putting it on the licence are just adding unnecessary confusion.

Last edited by BizJetJock; 25th Apr 2018 at 17:40. Reason: grammar!
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 08:32
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Not only in UK, France also.
I have just asked to have it endorsed on my license. Grand Father rights from GNSS, otherwise they said that the deadline was in 2020. Whatever , I shall receive my new license soon ( strikes depending)
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Old 27th Apr 2018, 04:45
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A bit of topic but what is LV? Only thing I can guess is Low Visebility but if that is the case I’ve been doing 125 take-off and CAT-II since 1998 but never had anything like that on my license.
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 10:01
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Low visibility (LV) licence endorsement - SkyWise
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 10:05
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That’s good. Think about all the times I did LVO in the UK and didn’t have it in my license. Can only imagine the discussion with the CAA inspector
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 10:44
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Well, i'm guessing (only a guess mind) that should it have become apparent, then any CAA involvement would have most likely looked at your training records to confirm that (whilst not annotated as such) you had indeed completed LVO training. And perhaps a few words on the back of that. A SAFA/SANA inspection however would have perhaps been more 'lively' in findings I would think ;-(.
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 11:43
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Never had a SAFA inspection in the UK but plenty in other countries. Never asked about training records. This is more a thing for the annual CAA audit in the head office. Considering that LV in a the license is a typical UK thing and not an EASA requirement. I don’t think they can comment to much on it.

Ironically PBN is pretty much in the same category so no clue why this should be on the license.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 16:53
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Everybody talks about PBN as an endorsement to be added to the IR rating, which will be mandatory after 25 August 2020.

What about the aircraft then? If I have an aircraft not approved for PBN operations, can I still fly under IFR after 25 August 2020. (let’s suppose as a pilot I am PBN endorsed but I need to fly my PA28 which is not PBN approved)

Where can I find regulation regarding aircraft minimum equipment for IFR to know what to do after August 25?

thank you
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