F7X pro's and con's
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F7X pro's and con's
Good day all
We're operating a Falcon 2000LX for the past 6 years and the boss is looking into upgrading for a 7X (EASYII+, SVS, EVS, CPDLC, ADS-b and all the rest of the extras).
To my understanding it is a great piece of equipment but the one problem I have is it is that's it is very hard to determine its reliability
I have been doing some reading and judging by earlier posts from around 2010 the feedback is not very positive (reliability wise)
We also will be operating not from a major airport so with limited access to our technical department and will need to handle many issues hands on
My question is, has anything changed in the past years, has reliability increased? Are you still getting many nuisance CAS messages you are u sure how to handle?
I'd hate to start every flight crossing figures I won't encounter something new that may, or not, delay me or keep me on the ground....
Dassault is talking of 99.6 reliability percentage, you agree?
I really need some info from pilots flying the birds with the latest software
Thanks a lot!!
We're operating a Falcon 2000LX for the past 6 years and the boss is looking into upgrading for a 7X (EASYII+, SVS, EVS, CPDLC, ADS-b and all the rest of the extras).
To my understanding it is a great piece of equipment but the one problem I have is it is that's it is very hard to determine its reliability
I have been doing some reading and judging by earlier posts from around 2010 the feedback is not very positive (reliability wise)
We also will be operating not from a major airport so with limited access to our technical department and will need to handle many issues hands on
My question is, has anything changed in the past years, has reliability increased? Are you still getting many nuisance CAS messages you are u sure how to handle?
I'd hate to start every flight crossing figures I won't encounter something new that may, or not, delay me or keep me on the ground....
Dassault is talking of 99.6 reliability percentage, you agree?
I really need some info from pilots flying the birds with the latest software
Thanks a lot!!
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Well from a market perspective there's no better time to buy one - it is softer than a bucket full of gorilla snot!
Thirty machines on the open market with many more sitting quietly on the sidelines. 2012 machines in the mid 30s and 2010 machines in the late twenties. Make sure your Bosses don't pay too much!
Thirty machines on the open market with many more sitting quietly on the sidelines. 2012 machines in the mid 30s and 2010 machines in the late twenties. Make sure your Bosses don't pay too much!
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F7X pro's and con's
Every since Load 10 and some particular items in Load 12 the 7X's reliability has improved immensely. In the past three years I have only cancelled 3 trips due to mechanical issues. This year I haven't cancelled any trips.
So, I would say that the reliability of the airplane has improved but will still cause issues like any other airplane from time to time.
So, I would say that the reliability of the airplane has improved but will still cause issues like any other airplane from time to time.
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10 or 12?
Thanks for the answers
Well that's good news guys,
We are well aware regarding the prices, as it seems Bombardier's price costs is the main reason for this along side the situation in Russia, Ukraineand China
Regarding reliability, I'm very happy to here that
What did you mean by 10 or 12? This relates to software updates or delivery time? How can I check this?
Thanks a lot
Well that's good news guys,
We are well aware regarding the prices, as it seems Bombardier's price costs is the main reason for this along side the situation in Russia, Ukraineand China
Regarding reliability, I'm very happy to here that
What did you mean by 10 or 12? This relates to software updates or delivery time? How can I check this?
Thanks a lot
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99,6% disparch reliability would put the FA7x in G550 territory, and that is just plain bovine excreta....
We operate both, and although 7x nuisance messages have diminished considerably, the dispatch reliability is still nowhere near good.
Save yourself the headache and get a nice 900LX....
We operate both, and although 7x nuisance messages have diminished considerably, the dispatch reliability is still nowhere near good.
Save yourself the headache and get a nice 900LX....
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Thanks guys
Thanks a lot for the info
My conclusion is that from the bad technical reputation this plane had in the beginning it came a long way and it is (almost) aligned with the rest of the leading manufacturers out there
Thanks again
My conclusion is that from the bad technical reputation this plane had in the beginning it came a long way and it is (almost) aligned with the rest of the leading manufacturers out there
Thanks again
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Fair enough.... 2 remarks though:
- if you go for a used 7X, only accept one with ALL relevant Service bulletins performed, paying close attention to high exchange part upgrades. During the pre-buy, ABSOLUTELY insist on a corrosion check inside ALL fuel tanks, as well as landing gear etc... You do NOT want to buy anything with even a little biological sludge in the tanks, as it will eventually cost you several weeks on ground and a large 6-figure sum...
- Going for a new 7x.... Don't.
- if you go for a used 7X, only accept one with ALL relevant Service bulletins performed, paying close attention to high exchange part upgrades. During the pre-buy, ABSOLUTELY insist on a corrosion check inside ALL fuel tanks, as well as landing gear etc... You do NOT want to buy anything with even a little biological sludge in the tanks, as it will eventually cost you several weeks on ground and a large 6-figure sum...
- Going for a new 7x.... Don't.
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Been flying a 7X for 6 years now and only canceled a flight once.(when they all got grounded).
overall we have a very good dispatch rate with very rarely a cancellation(we did operate 3 of them but just got our 4th one)
It helps to have a top notch engineering department that pampers the aircraft.
Neil
overall we have a very good dispatch rate with very rarely a cancellation(we did operate 3 of them but just got our 4th one)
It helps to have a top notch engineering department that pampers the aircraft.
Neil
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The 7X is a sweet gal to fly, works as advertised, was daubed with a bad reputation in the beginning.
Park your Ferrarri outside and don't do the maintenance and see what happens.
MD I find you a tad biased (I think your Gulfie mates in your company make more money and u might be a bit jealous
)
We just left some mates behind in Asia with a Gulfie AOG because...the bicycle chain that the drives the stab had fallen off......
for 10% less space and range you use up to approx 30% less fuel! try that for size.
I like it.
Park your Ferrarri outside and don't do the maintenance and see what happens.
MD I find you a tad biased (I think your Gulfie mates in your company make more money and u might be a bit jealous
)We just left some mates behind in Asia with a Gulfie AOG because...the bicycle chain that the drives the stab had fallen off......
for 10% less space and range you use up to approx 30% less fuel! try that for size.
I like it.
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Great info, thanks
Regarding the SB's, corrosion and contamination, great pointers
We operate a 2000LX at the moment and we just got out of the first C check so all these items were known to us from there, especially the corrosion part and some lamination on the winglets, a well known problem aparantly with al their planes
I happy to find that the 7X is not as unreliable as it used to be, based on what I'm reading here
This plane will not be in a hangar and it will be 8 km from the see but then again so is our F2000LX and she survives...;-)
How about the range? I assume the published 5950 NM is a non reliable number (with the 2000 to get 4000NM isn't really possible....) what's the "real" range one it and the fuel consumption?
THANKS A LOT GUYS AND GIRLS!!
Regarding the SB's, corrosion and contamination, great pointers
We operate a 2000LX at the moment and we just got out of the first C check so all these items were known to us from there, especially the corrosion part and some lamination on the winglets, a well known problem aparantly with al their planes
I happy to find that the 7X is not as unreliable as it used to be, based on what I'm reading here
This plane will not be in a hangar and it will be 8 km from the see but then again so is our F2000LX and she survives...;-)
How about the range? I assume the published 5950 NM is a non reliable number (with the 2000 to get 4000NM isn't really possible....) what's the "real" range one it and the fuel consumption?
THANKS A LOT GUYS AND GIRLS!!
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MartinBaker, for the record, I LOVE the 7X when it works, going into a lot of places the 550 is just to wide and heavy for... Also, flying visual approaches or VFR segments with the FBW and the low maneuvering speeds and VREF is a lot easier and sexier than with the conventional airplane, especially if, like the Gulfstream, the control feel is designed to match a 707 )))
Also for the record, I'm current on both models and I keep my drivers' salaries within a reasonably tight band irrespective of airplane flown... so just in case you were considering knocking at our door... don't
Also for the record, I'm current on both models and I keep my drivers' salaries within a reasonably tight band irrespective of airplane flown... so just in case you were considering knocking at our door... don't
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LOOKUP: we have a rather "heavy" 7X with all the bells and whistles and extra soundproofing, and we have done 12:40 segments at .80, so that's not too far off from the advertise range.
Going West from Southeast Asia we usually stop for a snooze somewhere around Athens or Istanbul, just to make sure we can do it every time irrespective of winds... But the guys from Dassault have done quite a few 13hrs+ segments with lighter birds, I remember a Singapore-Zurich landing with over 3'000 lbs..
The last one I witnessed was a European oil company doing Langkawi to Rotterdam with 4 crew and 4 pax, and landing with reasonable fuel on a DPP planning.
Again, not exactly G550 territory, but as mentioned by another poster, it burns 27% less fuel for the same mission and needs less concrete to do so...
Going West from Southeast Asia we usually stop for a snooze somewhere around Athens or Istanbul, just to make sure we can do it every time irrespective of winds... But the guys from Dassault have done quite a few 13hrs+ segments with lighter birds, I remember a Singapore-Zurich landing with over 3'000 lbs..
The last one I witnessed was a European oil company doing Langkawi to Rotterdam with 4 crew and 4 pax, and landing with reasonable fuel on a DPP planning.
Again, not exactly G550 territory, but as mentioned by another poster, it burns 27% less fuel for the same mission and needs less concrete to do so...
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HI fLYMD,
i have it from a reliable source that that flight didn't make Rotterdam that day! we had to stop in Warsaw for a bit of fuel.
The longest if flown is Calgary to Rio 5780NM 13 hr block, we landed with approx. 3.500lbs.
our biggest problem is not making Singapore from Rotterdam, we did once but that is with DP flight plan and good winds.
i have it from a reliable source that that flight didn't make Rotterdam that day! we had to stop in Warsaw for a bit of fuel.
The longest if flown is Calgary to Rio 5780NM 13 hr block, we landed with approx. 3.500lbs.
our biggest problem is not making Singapore from Rotterdam, we did once but that is with DP flight plan and good winds.
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Thanks Neil! Sorry about that, you guys seemed to be on track to achieve it just before take-off, but with wx and trafic near your homebase, You just never know I guess 
London-KL seems to work well for us, especially in the winter, but maybe we've just been mostly lucky with our routes and winds up to now...
Anyway, main point I guess is that the bird pretty much does what it says provided the flight planning system is set up properly: in our case the Jetplan figures are accurate to within a couple hundred pounds...
London-KL seems to work well for us, especially in the winter, but maybe we've just been mostly lucky with our routes and winds up to now...
Anyway, main point I guess is that the bird pretty much does what it says provided the flight planning system is set up properly: in our case the Jetplan figures are accurate to within a couple hundred pounds...
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Dear MD,
I don't keep records on prune banter
I do however note a slight attitude
you go from 'bovine excreta' to 'LOVE' re the 7X in 2 mails
then invite me not to knock on your door........whichever door that might be???
all a tad 'tight'....
loosen-up son
I don't keep records on prune banter
I do however note a slight attitude
you go from 'bovine excreta' to 'LOVE' re the 7X in 2 mails
then invite me not to knock on your door........whichever door that might be???
all a tad 'tight'....
loosen-up son
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All right then, separating the facts from the "attitude", it remains true that the 7X is not even close to 99% dispatch reliability fleetwide, as any honest field rep will admit... The criteria used to define a delayed or failed mission are not honest for a start.
Martinbaker, you can hang loose for the both of us, daddy-o, and maybe improve the quality of your banter somewhat, I'll keep it tight and real on my side...
Martinbaker, you can hang loose for the both of us, daddy-o, and maybe improve the quality of your banter somewhat, I'll keep it tight and real on my side...
