signing of contract for new plane
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signing of contract for new plane
Godd day everybody
We are very close to sign contract for LEAR 75 choosing this plane among others like Phenom 300 , G150 , XLS+ .
It seems that Lear meet all our requirements.
Maybe some of you are well knowledgeable regarding of contracts for new plane and send some clues , points of special attention I will be appreciated.
We would like to negotiate TR for 3rd pilot , discuss delivery I mean who will pay for delivery because delivery will be Europe , assist of experienced pilot at the begining I don't know standards couple of days , week ? maybe you know some contacts to specialists at aircraft inspection and delivery from factory etc. I don't know maybe some other things are important as well , please give me an advice .
any replies appreciated
thank you
We are very close to sign contract for LEAR 75 choosing this plane among others like Phenom 300 , G150 , XLS+ .
It seems that Lear meet all our requirements.
Maybe some of you are well knowledgeable regarding of contracts for new plane and send some clues , points of special attention I will be appreciated.
We would like to negotiate TR for 3rd pilot , discuss delivery I mean who will pay for delivery because delivery will be Europe , assist of experienced pilot at the begining I don't know standards couple of days , week ? maybe you know some contacts to specialists at aircraft inspection and delivery from factory etc. I don't know maybe some other things are important as well , please give me an advice .
any replies appreciated
thank you
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Hopefully somebody more up to date will be able to answer but these are just my thoughts from my experience of a Learjet delivery.
Don't sign until you are clear what you are getting - ask for a sample contract.
If you were not involved in negotiations check what Options are included. For the 40/45 there were a couple of Options for FAA Part 135/EU-OPS which always help for later selling (Well worth thinking ahead!!!) I can't go into all the details but check even simple things like lifejackets are included, we were going to end up with the seat cushion option.
You can probably negotiate a 3rd pilot training instead of the engineers course.
Learjet have been providing a company pilot to new 70/75 Operators for the first 2 weeks but I don't know if this is continuing.
Delivery is usually in Wichita but you may be able to get it delivered at your cost. The flight back gives you plenty of time to check out everything and is fun.
WARNING: At delivery don't be rushed. Learjet will provide an acceptance document but it is your aircraft plan what you want.
Make friends with your local field service rep now and talk to them
Far too much to type here but others will have their own comments.
Have fun
Mike Echo
Don't sign until you are clear what you are getting - ask for a sample contract.
If you were not involved in negotiations check what Options are included. For the 40/45 there were a couple of Options for FAA Part 135/EU-OPS which always help for later selling (Well worth thinking ahead!!!) I can't go into all the details but check even simple things like lifejackets are included, we were going to end up with the seat cushion option.
You can probably negotiate a 3rd pilot training instead of the engineers course.
Learjet have been providing a company pilot to new 70/75 Operators for the first 2 weeks but I don't know if this is continuing.
Delivery is usually in Wichita but you may be able to get it delivered at your cost. The flight back gives you plenty of time to check out everything and is fun.
WARNING: At delivery don't be rushed. Learjet will provide an acceptance document but it is your aircraft plan what you want.
Make friends with your local field service rep now and talk to them
Far too much to type here but others will have their own comments.
Have fun
Mike Echo
Last edited by Mike Echo; 25th Oct 2014 at 22:19.
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I went through 2 deliveries, a Challi 300 and a Sovereign.
Unlike one would think, there is PLENTY of things that are not in order when you take delivery and that someone has to recognize and have it fixed. (at least with the 2 airplanes I accepted one had 120+ snags to be reworked - the overwhelming majority paint issues, I spent a day aroind the airplane just to see/mark/write down the paint issues)
There are specialists who can do the acceptance for you - at a considerable rate, but that money is well spent. If you donīt know someone, your future mx shop might assist you as well.
And what Mike Echo said - donīt rush it at all, bring plenty of time.
Unlike one would think, there is PLENTY of things that are not in order when you take delivery and that someone has to recognize and have it fixed. (at least with the 2 airplanes I accepted one had 120+ snags to be reworked - the overwhelming majority paint issues, I spent a day aroind the airplane just to see/mark/write down the paint issues)
There are specialists who can do the acceptance for you - at a considerable rate, but that money is well spent. If you donīt know someone, your future mx shop might assist you as well.
And what Mike Echo said - donīt rush it at all, bring plenty of time.
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We encountered over 400 squawks on one of our Customer's brand new 2000LX!
I saw Falcons flying away brand new with many of those same squawks not found by their respective Owners / teams!
I saw Falcons flying away brand new with many of those same squawks not found by their respective Owners / teams!
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I've done new deliveries (as an Engineer) with Cessna, Dassault and Learjet but here are some further general thoughts that seem to apply to all.
Between Contact and Delivery listen to what His Dudeness and LGW Vulture have to say
Read and Re-read the contact and Aircraft Specs so you know what you are getting - then question what isn't mentioned - it is so easy to assume everything will be as you expect - it often isn't.
Get access to the web site and keep track of SB's, mods etc so you are aware of issues. Find out at what point before delivery SB's no longer incorporated - you may be surprised!
You will be assigned a delivery manager so ask to be advised of changes in cabin configuration. It's not too bad on the smaller aircraft but on the larger you find items like magazine racks removed or re-positioned. get the interior drawings (larger aircraft) and check updates and changes.
On the larger aircraft I often visited during build to check on progress and take pictures before the interior goes in - very useful a year later when you are trying to find equipment hidden behind cabin panels
Talk to other operators, listen to the Tech Committee webcasts.
Delivery
To repeat don't be rushed.
They may quote three days for delivery, I have never had it happen.
You may be pushed to do the acceptance flight ASAP even the first day. My preference is to spend one or even two days going around the aircraft and getting to know the interior systems before flying.
There should be at least two of you looking around Pilot and Engineer.
On the acceptance flight insist the aircraft has a good cold soak at altitude and check EVERYTHING for function and fit.
I have, if practical, also asked for a short night flight to check all the lighting.
Have a good look around the aircraft after the flights.
By now you should have around 200++ snags at least, honestly! Paint being one of the main issues.
BE CRITICAL
You may be advised that some problems will be fixed after delivery, be very cautious. All the manufacturers will fixed issues very quickly if you hold back on the signature transferring 10/20M$
All of this is just a summary I think my checklist ran to several pages.
Get Specialised (Independent) help if you need it, it costs but may save a lot more.
Then make sure you get the evening meal usually at the "Steak and Sirloin" and hit the Speciality Shop
After all this, enjoy the Learjet, it is a great aircraft
Between Contact and Delivery listen to what His Dudeness and LGW Vulture have to say
Read and Re-read the contact and Aircraft Specs so you know what you are getting - then question what isn't mentioned - it is so easy to assume everything will be as you expect - it often isn't.
Get access to the web site and keep track of SB's, mods etc so you are aware of issues. Find out at what point before delivery SB's no longer incorporated - you may be surprised!
You will be assigned a delivery manager so ask to be advised of changes in cabin configuration. It's not too bad on the smaller aircraft but on the larger you find items like magazine racks removed or re-positioned. get the interior drawings (larger aircraft) and check updates and changes.
On the larger aircraft I often visited during build to check on progress and take pictures before the interior goes in - very useful a year later when you are trying to find equipment hidden behind cabin panels
Talk to other operators, listen to the Tech Committee webcasts.
Delivery
To repeat don't be rushed.
They may quote three days for delivery, I have never had it happen.
You may be pushed to do the acceptance flight ASAP even the first day. My preference is to spend one or even two days going around the aircraft and getting to know the interior systems before flying.
There should be at least two of you looking around Pilot and Engineer.
On the acceptance flight insist the aircraft has a good cold soak at altitude and check EVERYTHING for function and fit.
I have, if practical, also asked for a short night flight to check all the lighting.
Have a good look around the aircraft after the flights.
By now you should have around 200++ snags at least, honestly! Paint being one of the main issues.
BE CRITICAL
You may be advised that some problems will be fixed after delivery, be very cautious. All the manufacturers will fixed issues very quickly if you hold back on the signature transferring 10/20M$
All of this is just a summary I think my checklist ran to several pages.
Get Specialised (Independent) help if you need it, it costs but may save a lot more.
Then make sure you get the evening meal usually at the "Steak and Sirloin" and hit the Speciality Shop
After all this, enjoy the Learjet, it is a great aircraft
Last edited by Mike Echo; 26th Oct 2014 at 07:46. Reason: Added "Independent" Silverknapper is right!
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If you don't know what you're doing get help. Preferably independent. You'd be amazed how many 'specialists' are in someone's pocket.
Don't accept any snags on the promise they'll be dealt with later.
All the above is true. Don't rush. Acceptances can take 5 days. Also make sure you know who is paying for what.
Ferry is easily negotiable.
Just realised its the contract you're referring to. It really is still a buyers market. Don't be shy in asking.
Don't accept any snags on the promise they'll be dealt with later.
All the above is true. Don't rush. Acceptances can take 5 days. Also make sure you know who is paying for what.
Ferry is easily negotiable.
Just realised its the contract you're referring to. It really is still a buyers market. Don't be shy in asking.
Last edited by silverknapper; 25th Oct 2014 at 23:53.
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Ive assisted on a number of deliveries and one thing that I can add that others have not said is bring a camera, if you spot a snag, photo it, that way you can check the photos and see if the snag has been sorted before you sign the acceptance doc.
again dont rush, it's not a Ģ25,000 car you are signing for, it's a Ģ10+ million jet.
Fats
again dont rush, it's not a Ģ25,000 car you are signing for, it's a Ģ10+ million jet.
Fats
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thank you for pointing my attention to some of issues
have you got any experience with their Smart Parts Plus or Smart Maintenance programs ? We were offered also Platinium program with some serious discount.
I'm also considering JSSI cover.
thanks
have you got any experience with their Smart Parts Plus or Smart Maintenance programs ? We were offered also Platinium program with some serious discount.
I'm also considering JSSI cover.
thanks
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I have as well accepted new jet aircraft from the factory, the last two a Falcon 900EX and a Falcon 50EX.
Do everything that Mike Echo posted, twice.
I've a few other suggestions. On the pre-acceptance flights fill all the seats in the aircraft that are open with people that are not employed by Lear and/or have any connection with Lear. Give those people the marking tape, have them inspect their area for any flaws and then mark those flaws with the tape, after landing write them up.
As for the contract itself, negotiate for a longer free airframe maintenance period post-delivery, the engine and avionics you will most likely have to live with, but you can get a long period of free airframe maintenance. I was able to do this with Dassault first with the 900 and when we bought the 50 they just gave it to me without me asking.
From Mike Echo;
I cannot stress enough just how important the subject of Service Bulletins are. What you may think may come standard on the aircraft, very well may not.
And as most have said here, take your time, don't let the factory hurry you. It is your aircraft, not theirs.
Now have a great time, I always greatly enjoyed picking up new aircraft from the factory.
Cheers!
Do everything that Mike Echo posted, twice.
I've a few other suggestions. On the pre-acceptance flights fill all the seats in the aircraft that are open with people that are not employed by Lear and/or have any connection with Lear. Give those people the marking tape, have them inspect their area for any flaws and then mark those flaws with the tape, after landing write them up.
As for the contract itself, negotiate for a longer free airframe maintenance period post-delivery, the engine and avionics you will most likely have to live with, but you can get a long period of free airframe maintenance. I was able to do this with Dassault first with the 900 and when we bought the 50 they just gave it to me without me asking.
From Mike Echo;
Get access to the web site and keep track of SB's, mods etc so you are aware of issues. Find out at what point before delivery SB's no longer incorporated - you may be surprised!
And as most have said here, take your time, don't let the factory hurry you. It is your aircraft, not theirs.
Now have a great time, I always greatly enjoyed picking up new aircraft from the factory.
Cheers!
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I took delivery of a brand new Lear60 once and had to get back home 3 times, first inspection 200++....
Do what has been advised, get experienced people to do the job, itīs worth the money spent. Have all fixed before delivery.
Do what has been advised, get experienced people to do the job, itīs worth the money spent. Have all fixed before delivery.
Acceptance
CHR
Some good points above but also have the acceptance flight flown to the full CofA/post production test schedule by someone who has experience. As I mention in several posts I do not do this nowadays but have done it all for Lear 40/45 before and have some post maintenance/production test flying and acceptance experience so please PM if you would like to chat.
Regards
MM
Some good points above but also have the acceptance flight flown to the full CofA/post production test schedule by someone who has experience. As I mention in several posts I do not do this nowadays but have done it all for Lear 40/45 before and have some post maintenance/production test flying and acceptance experience so please PM if you would like to chat.
Regards
MM
