SimuFlite
SpaceRanger
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 213
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From: Samsonite
a better place ... SimuFlite ? Or FlightSafety maybe :-)
Haven't been there, but of what I have heard it should be as good as FlightSafety.
If you could be more specific, you might get someone to take your bait. Specific as to location, aircraft type etc.
Haven't been there, but of what I have heard it should be as good as FlightSafety.
If you could be more specific, you might get someone to take your bait. Specific as to location, aircraft type etc.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: USA
No bait here 
. I just read the below article where the author attended initial training for a GIV. The article was not flattering to SimuFlite and I started to wonder if this was a problem with them or the industry as a whole. I will not be attending this sort of training for a long time but wondered about the overall feelings regarding SimuFlite and FlightSafety.
http://www.avweb.com/articles/pelperch/pelp0045.html
I'm sure if I went directly to SimuFlite or FlightSafety I would get the same marketing "line". I would like to hear the experiences of their customers or ex-customers.
Regards.
. I just read the below article where the author attended initial training for a GIV. The article was not flattering to SimuFlite and I started to wonder if this was a problem with them or the industry as a whole. I will not be attending this sort of training for a long time but wondered about the overall feelings regarding SimuFlite and FlightSafety.http://www.avweb.com/articles/pelperch/pelp0045.html
I'm sure if I went directly to SimuFlite or FlightSafety I would get the same marketing "line". I would like to hear the experiences of their customers or ex-customers.
Regards.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: 2 many hotels 4 1 life!!
FSI
hi pilotnug,
have been @ FSI vero beach (some call it cero beach!).
depends what u wanna do .
way 2 expensive and looking 4 ur best! MMOONNEY.
Well,thats my personal oppinion that i share with a bunch of other Ex CAA CAP 509 students there.
BUT I can only talk about FSI Vero Beach !!!
well,lets see what other poeple think.
take care
have been @ FSI vero beach (some call it cero beach!).
depends what u wanna do .
way 2 expensive and looking 4 ur best! MMOONNEY.
Well,thats my personal oppinion that i share with a bunch of other Ex CAA CAP 509 students there.
BUT I can only talk about FSI Vero Beach !!!
well,lets see what other poeple think.
take care
Aviator Extraordinaire
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 3
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Flight Safety versus Simi-Flight.
Personally I much prefer Flight Safety. I have attended both and I much prefer the Flight Safety training syllabus. I am surprised from reading that article in your post that the G-IV school is just 21 days. I went to Falcon 900EX school last year at DFW Flight Safety and it was four weeks long with only one weekend day off (as in only one day off period). We had two weeks of classroom work and two weeks of simulator. We were unable to practice in the simulator without an instructor because the simulator was booked 24 hours a day. There were some things that I didn’t like, below is a list.
1. The classroom instructor had just transferred from Phoenix and had NO Falcon 900 flying time. He got his type rating in the sim. He had been a Lear Jet instructor.
2. The classroom instructor just read from the book. He had no in-depth knowledge of the aircraft or it’s systems. (Hell, I can read from the book for god’s sake)
3. We were instructed to place a note on the chapter on Air Conditioning and Pressurization that read ”DO NOT READ”. During the oral portion of the check ride when we were asked about that subject I just showed the examiner this note and you should have seen the expression on his face. (I passed because I did read the chapter and the system is not that complicated.)
4. I have the same problem with all the abbreviations created by Dassault as the author of the article pointed out. (Why can’t one say Altitude Select button instead of ALTSECT, just for an example)
5. The simulator was excellent except for one problem. A very serious problem. With more than a ten-knot crosswind it was impossible to keep the simulator in the runway centerline. Over 20 knots I had trouble keep it on the runway. This is nothing like the airplane.
I realize that when I attended I was in the first full class in the new school. Hopefully things are better now.
Personally I much prefer Flight Safety. I have attended both and I much prefer the Flight Safety training syllabus. I am surprised from reading that article in your post that the G-IV school is just 21 days. I went to Falcon 900EX school last year at DFW Flight Safety and it was four weeks long with only one weekend day off (as in only one day off period). We had two weeks of classroom work and two weeks of simulator. We were unable to practice in the simulator without an instructor because the simulator was booked 24 hours a day. There were some things that I didn’t like, below is a list.
1. The classroom instructor had just transferred from Phoenix and had NO Falcon 900 flying time. He got his type rating in the sim. He had been a Lear Jet instructor.
2. The classroom instructor just read from the book. He had no in-depth knowledge of the aircraft or it’s systems. (Hell, I can read from the book for god’s sake)
3. We were instructed to place a note on the chapter on Air Conditioning and Pressurization that read ”DO NOT READ”. During the oral portion of the check ride when we were asked about that subject I just showed the examiner this note and you should have seen the expression on his face. (I passed because I did read the chapter and the system is not that complicated.)
4. I have the same problem with all the abbreviations created by Dassault as the author of the article pointed out. (Why can’t one say Altitude Select button instead of ALTSECT, just for an example)
5. The simulator was excellent except for one problem. A very serious problem. With more than a ten-knot crosswind it was impossible to keep the simulator in the runway centerline. Over 20 knots I had trouble keep it on the runway. This is nothing like the airplane.
I realize that when I attended I was in the first full class in the new school. Hopefully things are better now.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: UK
Simuflite -V- Flightsafety
Both much of a muchness...
Both organisations make big efforts to provide good service. They both have good facilities although FSI is of course much bigger.
I did a Citation rating at Simuflite in the mid nineties. Seven Instructors and eight sessions!!
I also did a Lear 60 rating at FSI. Our Instructor was under training, as were we. He had to learn somewhere but it didnt help us!
These are all normal type gripes. I would say they are both matched in performance but FSI does have a wider product range.
I have had good experiences at both.
Both much of a muchness...
Both organisations make big efforts to provide good service. They both have good facilities although FSI is of course much bigger.
I did a Citation rating at Simuflite in the mid nineties. Seven Instructors and eight sessions!!
I also did a Lear 60 rating at FSI. Our Instructor was under training, as were we. He had to learn somewhere but it didnt help us!
These are all normal type gripes. I would say they are both matched in performance but FSI does have a wider product range.
I have had good experiences at both.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: USA
My experiences have been with FlightSafety(8 aircraft types) over a 15 year span. As far as FlightSafety goes, it just depends on what aircraft you are training on and where that Center is located.
My recent experience over the last 5 years has been GIVSP, F900EX and GV. You would think that the Gulfstream programs would be about the same, but that's not what I found. My initial GIVSP class (back in 1998) was basically a differences class. The instructor asked how many students flew GII/GIII's, and about 85% of the class raised their hands so the instructor taught the GIVSP as if we all had prior Gulfstream experience. It didn't pay to be in the minority in that class. GV initial was a whole different story. It had to be the best initial I've ever attended, based largely on the fact that the instructor had no prior Gulfstream experience (so he couldn't treat the GV as any other Gulfstream) and that FlightSafety Savannah moved into new digs and totally revamped their program since I last flew the GIV. Great job Savannah!!!!!
My last Falcon school was in Teterboro, between the two Gulfstreams, and it wasn't anything to speak of. They had/have some great instructors but the program and materials were old and worn out. When I flew the B model, the initial manuals in use at that time were still for the -A model, well after the -B's had been introduced. They had never gotten around to updating the material. The -EX manual were rushed into service and full of errors, in most cases you were better off using the old -A manuals if you had questions. As times change, who knows when I will be back to Falcon school, then maybe I will be pleasantly surprised and find Teterboro transformed into a Savannah North.
I'm curious con-pilot, have you enjoyed both Dallas and Tererboro for -EX recurrent or do you still just frequent Dallas?
My recent experience over the last 5 years has been GIVSP, F900EX and GV. You would think that the Gulfstream programs would be about the same, but that's not what I found. My initial GIVSP class (back in 1998) was basically a differences class. The instructor asked how many students flew GII/GIII's, and about 85% of the class raised their hands so the instructor taught the GIVSP as if we all had prior Gulfstream experience. It didn't pay to be in the minority in that class. GV initial was a whole different story. It had to be the best initial I've ever attended, based largely on the fact that the instructor had no prior Gulfstream experience (so he couldn't treat the GV as any other Gulfstream) and that FlightSafety Savannah moved into new digs and totally revamped their program since I last flew the GIV. Great job Savannah!!!!!
My last Falcon school was in Teterboro, between the two Gulfstreams, and it wasn't anything to speak of. They had/have some great instructors but the program and materials were old and worn out. When I flew the B model, the initial manuals in use at that time were still for the -A model, well after the -B's had been introduced. They had never gotten around to updating the material. The -EX manual were rushed into service and full of errors, in most cases you were better off using the old -A manuals if you had questions. As times change, who knows when I will be back to Falcon school, then maybe I will be pleasantly surprised and find Teterboro transformed into a Savannah North.
I'm curious con-pilot, have you enjoyed both Dallas and Tererboro for -EX recurrent or do you still just frequent Dallas?
Last edited by fokkerjet; 31st May 2002 at 01:36.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: US
Fokker jet, you might work for the soap company? 
My experiences have only been with FSI, in four types. I found that it all depends on the instructors. If you get a newby, you probably will not get your monies worth.
In the 90's FSI were doing a lot of hiring because of the aviation boom. They also lowered their entry requirements. As a result, the quality of training declined in some cases IMHO.
Based only on talking to many pilots whom have attended simuflite, FSI has the edge, but you get what you pay for.
My experiences have only been with FSI, in four types. I found that it all depends on the instructors. If you get a newby, you probably will not get your monies worth.
In the 90's FSI were doing a lot of hiring because of the aviation boom. They also lowered their entry requirements. As a result, the quality of training declined in some cases IMHO.
Based only on talking to many pilots whom have attended simuflite, FSI has the edge, but you get what you pay for.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: on the sea side
Good evening
I took my 900 EX conversion in Dallas in 01/01 and recurrent in Teter from then .
As in every school , a lot depend on the instructor as it has been said above .
The SIM worked properly in both site with some minor restrictions but I think that's what hapenned with all modern systems.
For info it is "ALTSEL" for "altitude selection" which doesn't look so bad for me !
Every thing can be always criticized but overall I honestly think the course in Teter was much better , as the instructors knew the system very , well which was not the case in Dallas ( but it was the first course on 900 EX )
CE
I took my 900 EX conversion in Dallas in 01/01 and recurrent in Teter from then .
As in every school , a lot depend on the instructor as it has been said above .
The SIM worked properly in both site with some minor restrictions but I think that's what hapenned with all modern systems.
For info it is "ALTSEL" for "altitude selection" which doesn't look so bad for me !
Every thing can be always criticized but overall I honestly think the course in Teter was much better , as the instructors knew the system very , well which was not the case in Dallas ( but it was the first course on 900 EX )
CE
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: USA
Thanks for all the information.
Here is another question. What is the main criteria for choosing one or the other (FSI vs SimuFlite)? Again, I'm a newbie so this may be a dumb question, but assuming they both offer the same type rating, how does one (or a company) decide where to go? Does is mainly come down to cost or are there other reasons?
Thanks again to everyone who has responded.
Chris
Here is another question. What is the main criteria for choosing one or the other (FSI vs SimuFlite)? Again, I'm a newbie so this may be a dumb question, but assuming they both offer the same type rating, how does one (or a company) decide where to go? Does is mainly come down to cost or are there other reasons?
Thanks again to everyone who has responded.
Chris
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: US
Some factors that I can think of are:
1. Cost - FSI is usually more expensive.
2. Location of facility offering your aircraft - reduces travel costs.
3. Availability of training slots - if you are in a hurry, this matters.
4. Quality of training.
5. Loyalty to one company because of experience with them.
6. Price as determined by your years with brand X, i.e. everything is negotiable.
7. Weather anticipated - hate Wichita in the summer!
1. Cost - FSI is usually more expensive.
2. Location of facility offering your aircraft - reduces travel costs.
3. Availability of training slots - if you are in a hurry, this matters.
4. Quality of training.
5. Loyalty to one company because of experience with them.
6. Price as determined by your years with brand X, i.e. everything is negotiable.
7. Weather anticipated - hate Wichita in the summer!
