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Gulfstream IV in Bedford MA

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Gulfstream IV in Bedford MA

Old 1st Jun 2014, 03:58
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Gulfstream IV in Bedford MA

Boston.com has a story about a Gulfstream running off the end of the runway and burning on a takeoff attempt.

Report: Plane Crashes at Hanscom Airfield - Massachusetts news - Boston.com
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 13:52
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Not sure about that, this one crashed pretty much on the rwy centerline, which makes me think that it didn't roll. Also looks like it went quite some distance past the end of the rwy (around 800m).
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 14:31
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I hate the thought of discussing the reasons for a crash so soon after the event, but just so susier doesn't take his theory any further, the 650 and IV have different flight control systems.
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 14:54
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New Mexico crash - Gulfstream test pilots with bad engineering data rotated at too slow an airspeed, stalled and ...
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 14:56
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I haven't seen any good photos yet.

Wondering? again only wondering!

Were the flaps positioned for takeoff?

Were thrust reversers deployed?

Wondering about weight and balance

Wondering about birds

you guys can figure out why I am wondering!
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 18:41
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Philadelphia Inquirer's Lewis Katz dies in plane crash

The co-owner of The Philadelphia Inquirer, Lewis Katz, has been killed in a plane crash near Boston.

The businessman was on board a private jet that burst into flames as it was trying to take off on Saturday night from Hanscom Field airport.
Sounds like the same incident.
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 18:44
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glendalegoon, add a aborted take off that did not end well to your list ie aborted to far down the runway etc
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 19:01
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yes irish 21

that's part of the thrust reverser question.

so, we have a night takeoff, what could go wrong? and if it did go wrong how did it GO WRONGER if an aborted takeoff was done

if it got airborne even three feet, that plane should have gone fine on one engine. shouldn't have tried to set down again, not that it happened that way.

also wondering if the tires are in good shape. if they are melted, maybe they tried to stop

if they are beautiful, they tried to fly

and if one is flat and the rest beautiful, the sound of a bad tire gets worse after you get airborne

or did a piece of tire get into an engine


even one good photo would help.
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 19:14
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How very sad.

2 Flight Crew.
1 Flight Attendant
4 Passengers.

Rest in peace all, and thoughts with family and friends. Very sad indeed.
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 19:37
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I finally saw a daylight photo. Seems the cockpit area is relatively intact.

From background, it looks like the plane never got airborne and just went straight off the end of the runway.

unsuccessful aborted takeoff?

anyone remember that lear that lost its braking system because the plane ''thought'' it was airborne? aborted and couldn't use wheel brakes?
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 20:34
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This is about the best info on this accident I've seen so far.

Gulfstream IV N121JM crash claims seven lives | Corporate Jet InvestorCorporate Jet Investor

Way too little reliable info to be comparing to other similar accidents at this time so I'll refrain from doing so. With one of the dead being a media outlet owner, I expect the NTSB will make some public statements in the coming days. Stand by for a trickle of investigation related news.
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 21:02
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I don't have anything to source but from a friend of mine working on this he indicated that it's being classified as a "runway excursion" initially by investigators. Some of the key possibilities they're looking at based on aircraft positioning and environmental observations are an aborted takeoff, a wildlife strike and a catastrophic failure of aircraft components. Obviously this is the most preliminary information and I only obtained it by casual conversation.

He also pointed out that the initial assessment is subject to change based on new evidence.
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 21:30
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Originally Posted by glendalegoon View Post
anyone remember that lear that lost its braking system because the plane ''thought'' it was airborne? aborted and couldn't use wheel brakes?
The Lear crash you are referring to was a result of pilot error. They had a tire blow-out and the captain attempted to abort their takeoff above V1. (The FO can be heard on the CVR saying, ďGo, go go.Ē) It MIGHT have turned out better had the thrust reversers worked but the tire also took out a squat switch that locked-out the thrust reversers in flight. So they were attempting an abort at 140 kts. with blown-out tires and no reverse thrust.
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Old 1st Jun 2014, 21:46
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there are a lot of deer that venture onto the runways in the northeast states at night, mainly for the deer to get away from the bugs, There have been several jet accidents because of deer some on Bedford airport and others. I have flown into many of these airports at night to see deer just standing on taxiways/runways while you are landing. There are many laws/rules that some airport have to keep the fencing low enough for deer to be able to migrate through the airport areas...big debate with pilots & environmentalist.

I could see the same up at Bedford as it is surrounded by woods etc and as you drive through the near by towns they are very wooded = lots of deer.
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Old 2nd Jun 2014, 01:12
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wonder if there are any owls near there. they fly at night.
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Old 2nd Jun 2014, 01:45
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I think the Deer theory is a good one, I've been in there many times and seen them.
Maybe it took out the hydraulics failing the brake(s)?
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Old 2nd Jun 2014, 01:57
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NTSB press conference indicates plane exited runway , hit localizer antenna

from photos the over run is sort of a gully.

a totally flat area would have given a better outcome I think.

did not see any phenolic foam overrun.
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Old 2nd Jun 2014, 03:03
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SK Jets Info

This is interesting to read. Not sure if it has any bearing on this accident but it certainly raises some questions???


Quote from NTSB Report RE 26 Dec 2011 Aircraft operated by SK Jets:

"The pilotís financial pressure as the owner of the company likely influenced his decision to continue flight into deteriorating weather conditions. The operatorís business had declined several years before the accident as a result of economic recession. The accident helicopter had been leased days before the accident. The operatorís only IFR certified helicopter, which was the largest customerís preferred helicopter, had been down for maintenance for 4 months while the operator attempted to secure loans for engine maintenance. The pilot was scheduled to meet with this customer in the coming weeks to obtain clarification about the customerís requirements. The pilot was also aware that his largest customer had begun identifying other aviation companies that might better fulfill its needs. Thus, the pilot would have been highly motivated to complete trips as requested so that he could demonstrate the reliability of his service. Additionally, due to the economic downturn, the pilotís company had lost millions of dollars during the 3 years before the accident. Therefore, the pilot likely wanted to make the most of every revenue generating opportunity."
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Old 2nd Jun 2014, 03:14
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Never got airborne, rolled through the grass, collided with an antenna, ran through a chain link fence, and wound up in a gully. The gully is 2,000 feet from the end of the runway.

Lewis Katz, Co-owner of The Philadelphia Inquirer among seven killed in fiery Hanscom Field crash - Metro - The Boston Globe
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Old 2nd Jun 2014, 03:23
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Deer are certainly a menace at many of the smaller fields in the U.S. I recall taking off one night from Morristown Municipal, a GA reliever field for NYC, when a herd of the buggers galloped across the runway at that awkward moment when I was going too fast to abort easily and not quite fast enough to rotate. My instinctive decision was to continue, and in the event I whistled over their heads without snagging an antler in the undercarriage.

I've some doubts about that being high on the probability list for this accident, though. In the first place Hanscom is a big and busy place, the main GA field for Boston, and also an Air Force base. It gets well over 100,000 movements per year, and is entirely enclosed by a high fence. Not impossible for something as big as a deer to get inside, to be sure, but not likely either. Secondly, if the accident aircraft did hit one or more deer, the carcase wouldn't be far away. I daresay someody would have said something about it by now.
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