Reliability Bombardier vs Gulfstream
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Reliability Bombardier vs Gulfstream
Hi all,
My job is to assist a company for an aircraft evaluation and I need some information from pilots flying on type.
In discussion are Global 5000/6000 and newer models of XRS and the G550/G650.
A few mechanics told me, that the Globals are like 150h in air = 150h problem solving. I am not sure how accurate such a statement can be because of the fact, that more Globals flying than G450/550 together.
Furthermore: NetJet sells it's Gulfstream and buy Globals.
There is one thing that can be true because I heard from different peoples: Global aircrafts do not like cold temperature.
However; I kindly invite all Glex and G550/G650 pilots to explain their own experience (while flying, aircraft handling on ground, avionics, entertainment/cabin system, aircraft preperation time, AOG and support from it manufactures, and in general it's aircraft reliability).
Thank you for sharing your experience!
My job is to assist a company for an aircraft evaluation and I need some information from pilots flying on type.
In discussion are Global 5000/6000 and newer models of XRS and the G550/G650.
A few mechanics told me, that the Globals are like 150h in air = 150h problem solving. I am not sure how accurate such a statement can be because of the fact, that more Globals flying than G450/550 together.
Furthermore: NetJet sells it's Gulfstream and buy Globals.
There is one thing that can be true because I heard from different peoples: Global aircrafts do not like cold temperature.
However; I kindly invite all Glex and G550/G650 pilots to explain their own experience (while flying, aircraft handling on ground, avionics, entertainment/cabin system, aircraft preperation time, AOG and support from it manufactures, and in general it's aircraft reliability).
Thank you for sharing your experience!
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I have logged over 1900 hours on Express (20), 5000 (150), XRS (1650) and 6000 (200) and never got AOG.
Most fragile components are more related to completion than airframe design, the water system was an issue on one particular XRS but avionics were never an issue.
It's a highly computerized jet and some resets are sometime necessary, although very seldom requiring a complete shut down.
Preparation time: I personnally like to reach the aircraft 2 hours before departure if not duty time limited with 1H30 as a minimum when with pax.
I guess I was lucky to have flown well operated and maintained aircraft but I do believe that the Global fleet reliability can be considered as similar to the V/550's nowadays.
Also I would always recommend hangarage, especially when the temperature drops beyond -10°C.
Bombardier support is generally very good.
Having wrote that the Gulfstreams are also great from what I heard. An important thing is a well conducted pre-buy inspection in any case.
Most fragile components are more related to completion than airframe design, the water system was an issue on one particular XRS but avionics were never an issue.
It's a highly computerized jet and some resets are sometime necessary, although very seldom requiring a complete shut down.
Preparation time: I personnally like to reach the aircraft 2 hours before departure if not duty time limited with 1H30 as a minimum when with pax.
I guess I was lucky to have flown well operated and maintained aircraft but I do believe that the Global fleet reliability can be considered as similar to the V/550's nowadays.
Also I would always recommend hangarage, especially when the temperature drops beyond -10°C.
Bombardier support is generally very good.
Having wrote that the Gulfstreams are also great from what I heard. An important thing is a well conducted pre-buy inspection in any case.
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Have several thousand hours on various Gulfstream models, most recently on the G550 and now the '650 and I would agree with Flexjet that either Bombardier or Gulfstream models are equally reliable nowadays. I would also agree that Gulfstreams are just like Globals in that they don't like being left out in the cold, I always noticed on the 550 that the cabin systems could become quite ill tempered after a night or two outside on a cold ramp.
That being said, I've always been impressed with the dispatch reliability of the Gulfstreams, parts may break, but the MEL or CDL always seems to let you finish the trip without interruption and give you time to have the part waiting for you at the next maintenance base.
My experience with the new 650 has been somewhat mixed so far, like most operators of the type I am very impressed with the performance, range and handling of the aircraft and despite some software quirks the flight operation systems of the aircraft are solid, the cabin systems however are still a "Work in progress". I should note that this experience is based on A/C serial numbers 38, 63 and 64, I would expect that customers receiving serial numbers 100 and above should receive a product that is much more reliable.
When considering which product is best for your client it really comes down to which model best suits your mission needs, to which I will add one more observation and that is that Gulfstream has been shown to consistently "under promise" and "over deliver" when it comes to performance specifications.
That being said, I've always been impressed with the dispatch reliability of the Gulfstreams, parts may break, but the MEL or CDL always seems to let you finish the trip without interruption and give you time to have the part waiting for you at the next maintenance base.
My experience with the new 650 has been somewhat mixed so far, like most operators of the type I am very impressed with the performance, range and handling of the aircraft and despite some software quirks the flight operation systems of the aircraft are solid, the cabin systems however are still a "Work in progress". I should note that this experience is based on A/C serial numbers 38, 63 and 64, I would expect that customers receiving serial numbers 100 and above should receive a product that is much more reliable.
When considering which product is best for your client it really comes down to which model best suits your mission needs, to which I will add one more observation and that is that Gulfstream has been shown to consistently "under promise" and "over deliver" when it comes to performance specifications.
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Just wanted to add that for prep times, we usually allow 90 minutes and that is more than adequate, indeed, if the FA could keep up were able to get the 550 fueled and ready for shorter flights in 30 minutes or less (filling the tanks can take 40 minutes on the 550, much quicker, supposedly 25 minutes on the 650) when the need arose.
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Thank's to both of you for your information!
90-120min of aircraft/cabin preperation and start-up time is a great time for both aircrafts. Interesting to know that G550 and Globals do not like cold temperature. I hope I will never fly to Moscow ;-)
The mission profile will be a mix of long haul (transatlantic crossing and far east out of Europe) and short-mid haul. We calculated an average flight time of 90min per leg by a total of 350-400h TT per year.
Performance is very similar on both aircrafts. The G550 is not certified for steep approach but the 650 will be at the end of 2014.
However, on that level of aircraft handling I guess it's like "talking about peanuts". There will be always a head on head fighting of both manufactures...
But maybe you can give me some examples of handling and solving a problem during a flight...? and if was required to press the "event" button, was you able to talk to a specialist on ground via sat phone? how was that kind of service/support?
90-120min of aircraft/cabin preperation and start-up time is a great time for both aircrafts. Interesting to know that G550 and Globals do not like cold temperature. I hope I will never fly to Moscow ;-)
The mission profile will be a mix of long haul (transatlantic crossing and far east out of Europe) and short-mid haul. We calculated an average flight time of 90min per leg by a total of 350-400h TT per year.
Performance is very similar on both aircrafts. The G550 is not certified for steep approach but the 650 will be at the end of 2014.
However, on that level of aircraft handling I guess it's like "talking about peanuts". There will be always a head on head fighting of both manufactures...
But maybe you can give me some examples of handling and solving a problem during a flight...? and if was required to press the "event" button, was you able to talk to a specialist on ground via sat phone? how was that kind of service/support?
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Triple 7, my experience with Gulfstream support has always been positive, going way back to my time with the IAI Astra/Gulfstream G100, even back then I was always impressed with their support of their "Bastard stepchild".
More recently when we took delivery of our G650's they all came with an "Entry into service" (EIS) tech who rode with us on the aircraft with for the first 30 days. The support we received from Gulfstream and our EIS rep was nothing less than outstanding on our first mission which took place immediately upon delivery and was a multi-stop global circumnavigation, and not exactly the smartest thing to do upon taking delivery of a brand new aircraft, but that was what the boss wanted to do and thanks to first class support from Gulfstream we made it happen without any interruptions to the schedule, fixing things along the way such as a broken window shade, a balky satellite internet system, etc, during our R.O.N's.
I assume by your reference to the need to make steep approaches you are planning ops into LCY? If so, have you also considered the Falcon 7X?
More recently when we took delivery of our G650's they all came with an "Entry into service" (EIS) tech who rode with us on the aircraft with for the first 30 days. The support we received from Gulfstream and our EIS rep was nothing less than outstanding on our first mission which took place immediately upon delivery and was a multi-stop global circumnavigation, and not exactly the smartest thing to do upon taking delivery of a brand new aircraft, but that was what the boss wanted to do and thanks to first class support from Gulfstream we made it happen without any interruptions to the schedule, fixing things along the way such as a broken window shade, a balky satellite internet system, etc, during our R.O.N's.
I assume by your reference to the need to make steep approaches you are planning ops into LCY? If so, have you also considered the Falcon 7X?
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Triple 7, my experience with Gulfstream support has always been positive, going way back to my time with the IAI Astra/Gulfstream G100, even back then I was always impressed with their support of their "Bastard stepchild".
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Gulfstream in cold weather
We operate an Elite interior Gulfstream in some very harsh conditions. Average winter temps are -10 to -20 and I have seen -40 on the ground. As long as you drain and purge the water system well, even for a short layover, and take the other winter time precautions that Gulfstream recommends you shouldn't have a problem. Just make sure both you and your cabin attendant allows the interior to warm up before you start trying to operate systems.
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Thank you Astra Driver for your further explanation!
During your world tour you had a few interesting experiences
could end easely in an AOG... not what I looking for...
The windows are always the major critical points in an aircraft and especially windows having this kind of size and design like the G650.
However, now I know why you had 30 days EIS with you
.
Bombardier offer this kind of service for only 14 days, but for a pilot and tech specialist.
Falcon 7X sucks! Much less performance and comfort than Global and Gulfstream. Overpriced. And it's reliability is truly horrible (100h flying = 200h trouble shooting)!!! Dassault is always 5 years behind. They do better what they can: build fighter aircrafts instead of biz jets...
During your world tour you had a few interesting experiences
could end easely in an AOG... not what I looking for...The windows are always the major critical points in an aircraft and especially windows having this kind of size and design like the G650.
However, now I know why you had 30 days EIS with you
.Bombardier offer this kind of service for only 14 days, but for a pilot and tech specialist.
Falcon 7X sucks! Much less performance and comfort than Global and Gulfstream. Overpriced. And it's reliability is truly horrible (100h flying = 200h trouble shooting)!!! Dassault is always 5 years behind. They do better what they can: build fighter aircrafts instead of biz jets...
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Wow, I've had nothing but great service from Dassault in the U.S. for our 900LX. And aside from a few software inconveniences, the 900LX has been totally reliable. We also have a G550 and G650 and I would say Dassault is almost as good as Gulfstream.
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Falcon 7X sucks! Much less performance and comfort than Global and Gulfstream. Overpriced. And it's reliability is truly horrible (100h flying = 200h trouble shooting)!!! Dassault is always 5 years behind. They do better what they can: build fighter aircrafts instead of biz jets...
explain this a little bit ? Much less performance ? Confort ? Reliability ? 
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My experience with the Gulfstreams is generally better
. Their customer service is by far the best. I believe from price point of view, Gulfstream is more expensive then Global. IMHO
. Their customer service is by far the best. I believe from price point of view, Gulfstream is more expensive then Global. IMHO
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Cannot comment on the Gulfstream but the 7X vs the Global is like a sportscar versus a van...
And just like with an expensive sportscar it is sometimes annoying when you go take that to the garage vs a van but the enjoyment driving it makes up for that
So in short if it was my money: a 7X any day
And just like with an expensive sportscar it is sometimes annoying when you go take that to the garage vs a van but the enjoyment driving it makes up for that
So in short if it was my money: a 7X any day
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"Cannot comment on the Gulfstream but the 7X vs the Global is like a sportscar versus a van..."
Global, although I have never had the opportunity to fly one, I've always heard nice things about the way Falcons handle.
I've a feeling you would also very much like the new G650 in that regard, the new FBW system makes it handle completely differently than previous Gulfstreams, very light and smooth on the controls at all airspeeds and weights, plus the new BR 725's make it accelerate like a "sports car".
Global, although I have never had the opportunity to fly one, I've always heard nice things about the way Falcons handle.
I've a feeling you would also very much like the new G650 in that regard, the new FBW system makes it handle completely differently than previous Gulfstreams, very light and smooth on the controls at all airspeeds and weights, plus the new BR 725's make it accelerate like a "sports car".
