Dornier : A good replacement for the Aurigny Trislander ?
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The practical answer of course is a Cessna Caravan, but sadly the regs don't agree with that.
I too suspect that costs of anything multi turbine following a Trislander are likely to be a problem.
I too suspect that costs of anything multi turbine following a Trislander are likely to be a problem.
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Being from Belfast I just thought I would ask...
If they have operated Trislanders for so long why would they not consider some Shorts 360.
I know they are ancient in airline terms, I know next to nothing about landing distances etc but they are cheap, easy to maintain (obvious lie there).
What are the likely pro's & cons?
Just asking, obviously not serious...
I know they are ancient in airline terms, I know next to nothing about landing distances etc but they are cheap, easy to maintain (obvious lie there).
What are the likely pro's & cons?
Just asking, obviously not serious...
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They are old now and have been out of production a while, therefore, very few about. Old aircraft tend to give operational performance issues by going tech, even if maintained. Rather than picking them up from all corners of the globe, in various conditions, airlines are much better off getting a cracking deal from the manufacturer. Training on the Shorts is a pain too. It has to be done in the aircraft, which is expensive and limiting or over to FlightSafety LaGuardia - correct me if I am wrong.
As for the Do228, there are several in Germany for a fraction of the cost, which being every 6 months, will add up in no time. This training might also be free if well negotiated when buying new airframes, maybe even their own sim.
As for the Do228, there are several in Germany for a fraction of the cost, which being every 6 months, will add up in no time. This training might also be free if well negotiated when buying new airframes, maybe even their own sim.
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Like Latefinals I have had many (over 100) flights on the Aurigny Trislanders to/from ACI (ex SOU) in the last 25 years. On a fine day with light winds landing and getting off the 880m asphalt runway at ACI / EGJA will, I am sure, be easy for a Do 228. However the weather at ACI is often not like that and the place can present interesting landings (fog, strong winds etc) and quite a few of my arrivals (and departures) have been on one of the (often wet and ‘lumpy’) grass runways (the longer one being 733m which is 60m less than the Do 228 NG brochure take off distance). So Question 1 is whether the Do 228 (old or new generation) can cope with frequent grass runway use (I recall that Suckling started at on grass runways at Ipswich, with their Do228s but soon moved to Cambridge) and the challenging weather of ACI.
Aurigny uses the Trislanders in different ways by season. In winter with 2 or 3 flights a day ACI/SOU/ACI (and ACI/GCI/ACI) only a couple of planes are needed (maybe only one with a faster Do 228 and a rejigged timetable). In summer, flights (SOU/ACI) are basically on demand with a theoretical shuttle service every 15 minutes on the peak Alderney week Saturdays. A reduction from 5 or 6 Trislanders to only 2 or 3 Do 228s will surely create a real problem on those peak days (peak days that are vital for the economy of Alderney)? So Question 2 is whether the Do228 can cope with those sort of schedules (and under 10 minute turnarounds).
But in these days of the bean counters, Question 3 is the crucial one – the economics of a Do 228 operation v a Trislander one. Two crew v 1; Turboprop v Piston – fuel/maintenance etc; Higher depreciation (an NG costs not much under £6m) or the leasing costs initially; and so on. Flight costs are already extremely high (£126 for under 100 miles) and any step change in fares could have a big effect on ACI tourism (and as Aurigny is de facto owned by the States there is a link between money spent on the airline and revenue generated in ACI).
I assume, having trialled a leased machine a couple of months back, Aurigny have considered all the above and are confident that they have made the right decision. I hope they will be right but from my standpoint the demise of ‘Joey’ will be a sad day
!
Aurigny uses the Trislanders in different ways by season. In winter with 2 or 3 flights a day ACI/SOU/ACI (and ACI/GCI/ACI) only a couple of planes are needed (maybe only one with a faster Do 228 and a rejigged timetable). In summer, flights (SOU/ACI) are basically on demand with a theoretical shuttle service every 15 minutes on the peak Alderney week Saturdays. A reduction from 5 or 6 Trislanders to only 2 or 3 Do 228s will surely create a real problem on those peak days (peak days that are vital for the economy of Alderney)? So Question 2 is whether the Do228 can cope with those sort of schedules (and under 10 minute turnarounds).
But in these days of the bean counters, Question 3 is the crucial one – the economics of a Do 228 operation v a Trislander one. Two crew v 1; Turboprop v Piston – fuel/maintenance etc; Higher depreciation (an NG costs not much under £6m) or the leasing costs initially; and so on. Flight costs are already extremely high (£126 for under 100 miles) and any step change in fares could have a big effect on ACI tourism (and as Aurigny is de facto owned by the States there is a link between money spent on the airline and revenue generated in ACI).
I assume, having trialled a leased machine a couple of months back, Aurigny have considered all the above and are confident that they have made the right decision. I hope they will be right but from my standpoint the demise of ‘Joey’ will be a sad day
!
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The Do228 wouldn't need to cope with quick turn-arounds, if it carries more pax and gets there faster.
Wouldn't you rather be in an aircraft with relaxed crew who managed to stand up occasionally, or ones chasing their arse for 6 sectors?
The hindering factor is the pax with hand luggage and finding their seat. You are looking at 20 mins realistically - depending on fuel, coaches and generating a loadsheet.
As for the economics, modern turbine aircraft are very efficient and reliable, comfortable and fast. They could even do a triangle route from say Southend, Bristol or Cambridge. If they make the right move, this could make them a solid return.
As you say, price is very important, equally is reliability and customer service. Get any of those wrong and it will be the fastest way to bin millions!
Wouldn't you rather be in an aircraft with relaxed crew who managed to stand up occasionally, or ones chasing their arse for 6 sectors?
The hindering factor is the pax with hand luggage and finding their seat. You are looking at 20 mins realistically - depending on fuel, coaches and generating a loadsheet.
As for the economics, modern turbine aircraft are very efficient and reliable, comfortable and fast. They could even do a triangle route from say Southend, Bristol or Cambridge. If they make the right move, this could make them a solid return.
As you say, price is very important, equally is reliability and customer service. Get any of those wrong and it will be the fastest way to bin millions!
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I fly the 28 for a living with the Walther engines. We generally run engine cool down at 20 mins. However if we need a quick turnaround we can spool the gas generators up for longer before we introduce the fuel and that cools them down to the 100c start limit.
The 28 is an incredible STOL aircraft and an incredible work horse. Its a 10 seat 2/8 configuration.
However getting hold of them is pretty difficult these days. We are the biggest operator and tend to buy them when they come up.
The 28 is an incredible STOL aircraft and an incredible work horse. Its a 10 seat 2/8 configuration.
However getting hold of them is pretty difficult these days. We are the biggest operator and tend to buy them when they come up.
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We generally run engine cool down at 20 mins. However if we need a quick turnaround we can spool the gas generators up for longer before we introduce the fuel and that cools them down to the 100c start limit.
DK
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Although the coming Tecnam P2012 is only 10 seat, it might prove to be an alternative. There simply isn't any aircraft made in this category that has the economy of the Islander/Trislanders. Turbine is all fine and dandy, but when you have high cycles and quick turnarounds, you can't beat reciprocating engines.
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But the only reason for high and quick turn-arounds is because the Trislander is small and slow.
Get there faster with more passengers, less cycles required, less overall time in the air, less fuel burnt (2 sectors in a Trislander cannot be less fuel that 1 in a 228) and increased time to the next AOG in the hangar.
The article below refers to 250/250/ lbs/hr (I assume that's per side) so that's about 220kgs/hr about £140.
I guess the trislander would be approx. half that, but avgas is much more expensive and if you are doing double the sectors, it just doesn't make sense. Might be a bit tight if you are at max TOW though.
FLIGHT TEST: Ruag's Dornier 228NG put to the test - 8/31/2012 - Flight Global
Get there faster with more passengers, less cycles required, less overall time in the air, less fuel burnt (2 sectors in a Trislander cannot be less fuel that 1 in a 228) and increased time to the next AOG in the hangar.
The article below refers to 250/250/ lbs/hr (I assume that's per side) so that's about 220kgs/hr about £140.
I guess the trislander would be approx. half that, but avgas is much more expensive and if you are doing double the sectors, it just doesn't make sense. Might be a bit tight if you are at max TOW though.
FLIGHT TEST: Ruag's Dornier 228NG put to the test - 8/31/2012 - Flight Global
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LOL - no! I just sign the chit for tonnes and tonnes of it.
I guessed it was about 1000 USD per tonne. Trying to plan a wedding so really rough with the numbers.
I guessed it was about 1000 USD per tonne. Trying to plan a wedding so really rough with the numbers.
