Falcon 5X

[CaptainProp]

Interesting.... You see, I would have thought that a potential future 8X / 9X would be a development of the 7X, also with three engines. But as several people already pointed out, perhaps there is no financial viability in building more tri-jets.

CP

[CL300]

It ill not be a 9X, but the "8X"; it will have three engines, 3 Silvercrest at the minimum thrust 10k each, will go 8000 Nm, with a fuselage 3 meters longer than the actual 5X..

The entry level though, i have no clue :-)

[con-pilot]

Well say what you many about the dependability of modern day jet engines, but in the middle of the night, when you're over the middle of the Pacific Ocean, there is something very, very comforting about having three engines behind you.

But then again I'm an old fart and think there is a lot of truth in this old joke:

"Say, why do you only fly in four engine airliners when you fly over an ocean?"

"Because they don't make five engine airliners."

[jetopa]

"Say, why do you only fly in four engine airliners when you fly over an ocean?"

"Because they don't make five engine airliners."

Nicely said!

[aerochip]

5x is a needed replacement in Dassault line-up for 900EXy. 5x beats 900EXy in every category. 5x is larger, has useful galley and larger cabin; 5x has more range, 5x is more efficient, 5x has longer range, etc, etc,

But the most compelling factor for Dassault is that the 5x will be less expensive to build than the 900EXy, being built with automated processes instead of the labor intensive build of the 900EXy.

On paper, the 5x also appears to beat out the G450 and G5000 in terms of size, range and efficiency. Nice offering in my opinion.

[CaptainProp]

Does anyone have rough numbers of ordered but not yet delivered 7Xs? I guess current serial numbers being delivered are around the 220 mark and I read somewhere that about 30 will be delivered in 2013.

CP

[tuna hp]

In July 2012 they sent out a press release announcing the completion of their 200th 7X. That should give a pretty good starting point.

[CaptainProp]

Yes and that one was recently delivered to Prince Albert II and since then another 5-10 (?) have been delivered. I was more after how many more firm orders they have for the 7X or how many they expect to deliver over next 2-3 years. Is there still a demand for factory new 7Xs or are buyers at this end of the market going for the G6000 instead? Perhaps waiting for a G650 position?

CP

[tuna hp]

Isn't the G6000 a significantly older plane? Sure they used to call it the Global Express XRS and before that plain "GLEX" but it was around far before the 7X's 2007 debut. I think many buyers prefer the 7X. Obviously it has a much smaller cabin, but from what I understand it has better fuel economy, better field performance, the better reputation for design and reliability from Dassault as opposed to Bombardier, the better Dassault global service network, and of course it has 3 engines which I think is almost mandatory for some small operators that want to fly far over oceans.

I could be wrong on any/all of these points.

[CL300]

S/N 215 to be delivered in December, 225 in june. S/N up to 260+ sold

[Steak&Kidney_Pie]

So the aircraft is bigger than the 7X, and will lead to a new line of aircraft....

Dassault Reveals New Falcon 5X Business Jet | Aviation International News

[CaptainProp]

Thanks CL300, that's the type of information I was looking for.
Now we'll have to wait and see if and how much the 5X will cannabilise on future 7X orders....

CP

[Tray Surfer]

I like the sound of the galley skylight... But that is all I have to say on that one!

[CL300]

not much eating on the F7X sales, aircraft is only scheduled for delivery second half 2017, and still short on range ; however the 8X, will definitely dig the grave of the 7X..Soon to be announced IMHO.

[CaptainProp]

Yea, perhaps you're right.... So the 8X is "expected" to be a 3-engine replacement for the 7X? Hopefully it'll have similar avionics etc to the 7X, so that pilots can fly both, with only a difference course between the two.

CP

[Booglebox]

Given their history of milking previous designs for many updates / years, why would Dassault make 200 examples of a clean-sheet design and then throw it away to build the 8X?
Whatever the successor to the 7X is, my money is on it being based on the 7X (with the usual newer engines / new avionics / aerodynamic tweaks).

[CL300]

well , this is not what was said at NBAA. The 5X, even though has a new fuselage and wing, this wing is the result of the 7X experience.
Now the 5X has a complete FBW system including air brakes, flaperons, etc..The 8X will have to compete on the ULR segment, and jump the 8000 Nm barrier. The new version of EPIC/Easy is bound to make the dual HUD as a primary flight display, in color, all weather capability.
The 7X architecture does not and will not have this capability. We might see a lighter version of the 7X, and with a new rear section, may be a twin engine based on this design.
The common type is a dream for Dassault, but not on this generation of planes. CCQ is already available (900Easy/2000Easy); 7X/5X, not the same systems at all therefore very unlikely..
The 5X will cost 40% less to be build, this in itself give the answer, maintenance intervals at 800 hours and msg3 are just the last nail on the coffin for the older designs.
Dassault dumped the falcon 10 in an instant, the 50 in an eye blink ; the 900 have to keep up , like the 2000, until they get the FBW more "user friendly" then it will be it.
from 2020 onwards, i do not think that we will be able to recognize the fleet..( compare to today)

[tuna hp]

Yea, perhaps you're right.... So the 8X is "expected" to be a 3-engine replacement for the 7X? Hopefully it'll have similar avionics etc to the 7X, so that pilots can fly both, with only a difference course between the two.

I very much doubt that they will design any more trijets. There is a market for the trijet's unique abilities regarding ETOPS but in the end from my understanding, the decision always had to come down to being able to build a lighter and more economical plane with 3 engines than with 2. When Dassault built the F50, there were no business jet engines that would have been powerful enough to power it with only 2 of them. Gulfstream was taking the approach of using engines from commercial airliners but those engines were way bigger than what dassault thought was needed to complete the same range mission. Same deal with the F900: There were no acceptable options in the ~8,200 lb thrust range that would have been needed to make that plane as a twinjet. Same with the F7X: until very recently there have been no engines in the 11-12,000 lb thrust range that would have been acceptable. Now there is Silvercrest and a few others and really now there are efficient, contemporary engines to suit any thrust need, so I really doubt we will see any more trijets.

Since they already designed it and there is still a market, I do expect that we will see advancements of the 7X and they will continue selling it for many years to come. But why design a new one?

[DOCTOR BOMBAY]

Its a guessing game, I fly the 7X mostly on 5000nm missions, if I could have a wish list, it would be, a meter longer with three new 10000lbs engines and 8000nm range, they may call it the 7XER, and you will sell another 200+

[CL300]

They have to discontinue the actual FBW system.. and it was said by the Dassault CEO, last week in a french newspaper that the trijet 7X will evolve. NBAA they said 8X...hmmm
Bets on !!